The Murky Waters: What to do after death?

[Reiloth]

I was thinking about this earlier (and while I have no solution, I do have thoughts).

With Tuluk closed, the waters become a bit murkier when your PC is killed by another PC in say, Allanak. In the past, I would typically bounce around between cities between characters. Killed in the Labyrinth? Make a PC in Tuluk. Killed in Tuluk? Make a PC in the Labyrinth or Allanak.

Now, it seems that the distance one could easily achieve is a little further out of reach. You could:
a) Play in a Tribe, if you were playing in a city.
b) Play a Ranger/Loner type, and play in Red Storm/Luirs/The Wilderness, with some city interaction if you want.
c) Play in Allanak again, or the Labyrinth if you weren't there, or some mixture inbetween.
d) Take a break, come back later.

I'm not sure what the solution is -- The vague one in my mind is 'be able to play elsewhere without venn diagramming with previous PCs'. But I suppose part of why Tuluk closed was to further venn diagram the PC populace. It's a bit of a pickle.

[Yam]

Let people play mobs. Jozhals, scrabs, tregils, and what not.

Seriously.

Do it.

I dare you.

[valeria]

I used to do this as well, and my solution has been to bounce between Allanak-based PCs and PCs of some other location (Luirs, tribal, Red Storm, etc).  I don't lose PCs frequently enough that there is a lot of overlap by the time I get back to Nak. 

(I don't mean to invoke the horrors of the universe on my current here, just sayin', OH PLEASE DON'T LET ME DIE.)

[Majikal]

I've definitely had some trouble with this myself, though I haven't had to jump into the game with a new pc and stare my previous murderer in the eyes.. yet. I do tend to try and make wildly different pc's though to avoid falling in with the same groups as my prior. I would bounce back and forth between 'Nak and Tuluk myself but now I primarily play in 'Nak so during character creation I have to ask myself if this pc would end up running in the same circles as my previous and if so, I alter background/race/origin to make sure my characters story will take him in a wildly different direction than the previous.

[Armaddict]

Most of my characters are point allanak or point labyrinth.

Just go with what you want to play.  Purposefully avoiding what you want to play due to locale is, to me, silly.

[Jihelu]

I generally just try to avoid people I knew before.

[Reiloth]

Most of my characters are point allanak or point labyrinth.

Just go with what you want to play.  Purposefully avoiding what you want to play due to locale is, to me, silly.

Is it silly if you are constantly in the same circle of friends/enemies due to proximity?

[Jihelu]

Most of my characters are point allanak or point labyrinth.

Just go with what you want to play.  Purposefully avoiding what you want to play due to locale is, to me, silly.

Is it silly if you are constantly in the same circle of friends/enemies due to proximity?

I usually try to circumvent this, thats the wrong word right?, by having goals that would take me down different paths.

[Riev]

The reason this becomes an issue is because of playtimes, and playstyles. You can avoid the people you USED to play with in 'nak for a time, but eventually the people that were always around, or at the bar, when you were... its going to be hard to avoid them.

[Delirium]

I don't stress about it too much. Every character is unique. Sometimes you see different sides of an old PC you interacted with through new eyes.

I've been friends with enemies and enemies with friends, and trying to avoid playing a concept just because you might run into previously-known PCs is shooting yourself in the foot.

I guess it's a difference of intention. Things will shape up naturally as your PC is hooked into the gameworld, as long as you're not actively seeking out old buddies you're fine.

[Jihelu]

The feeling of becoming an enemy with a pc you were friends with is a good one.

[Armaddict]

Most of my characters are point allanak or point labyrinth.

Just go with what you want to play.  Purposefully avoiding what you want to play due to locale is, to me, silly.

Is it silly if you are constantly in the same circle of friends/enemies due to proximity?

If you're there constantly, then sure, it could be a problem.  This is a large part of why I was disappointed by so many military clans being closed down.  Even if people felt like they didn't do anything, the moment that you served a different master you sometimes had former friends as enemies, former enemies as friends, and a very real 'shake it up' effect on what your character could and couldn't be involved in.

Even in the case that you end up around friends or enemies, I would hardly fear most of the playerbase trying to rig the game.  IC events can push you in different ways.  People can argue that it's you forcing it to happen, but when you can clearly outline exactly why it happened to anyone who asks and in your own head...who cares?  Seriously, people will always think the worst of everyone in this game for whatever reason.  I got used to that a long time ago, realized where I like to play and in what roles, and those are the roles I play.  This, for me, has only ever led to a -real- problem once and a fake 'problem' once despite being around the same circles as where I died pretty consistently throughout the years.  The real one was because of me and a RL friend wanting to play a duo together and I kept dying quickly due to newbie, leading to three characters straight going straight his way (when he was a sorcerer in the wilds, that made it pretty bad).  The fake one was a bunch of people who didn't watch the story seeing that I ended up somewhere and deciding that I was in a super sekret ooc coalition which led to a complaint, which I shrugged off.

Point being.  If you need to get away from the groups to enjoy the game, then get away from the groups (but I agree that we've kind of made that very hard with our current setup of options).  But I don't think you should feel a second of guilt or hesitation when your character meets someone that you knew before.  Just play the new character, hopefully the character that you really wanted to play and didn't ixnay because you might run into <this person>, and hopefully enjoy your time with the one who you may have tried to avoid, but if you can't, hopefully they're at least fun to play with for you.

[Reiloth]

Most of my characters are point allanak or point labyrinth.

Just go with what you want to play.  Purposefully avoiding what you want to play due to locale is, to me, silly.

Is it silly if you are constantly in the same circle of friends/enemies due to proximity?

I usually try to circumvent this, thats the wrong word right?, by having goals that would take me down different paths.

Sometimes, there's only so much you can do, with a playerbase as small as ours. We tend to like playing around certain enjoyable PCs, whether as friends or enemies (or people to hatefuck), but the pool becomes considerably smaller when you only like playing certain types of PCs, or your 'type' of PC is recognizable in that you play a certain way. It's nuanced, hard to put my finger on, but it becomes to feel weird when you have a long-lived PC, and then you basically feel limited to playing a completely different option to avoid the people you had been playing around.

Hard to verbalize, but I miss Tuluk at times like these, where it offered an easy alternative to a new environment, a new pool of PCs, and you could just move on very cleanly.

[Delirium]

^^^ I do get that.

I mean, there's Morin's, but it's not a full fledged city and it's hard to base yourself out of unless you are an inked Tuluki.

[Jihelu]

^^^ I do get that.

I mean, there's Morin's, but it's not a full fledged city and it's hard to base yourself out of unless you are an inked Tuluki.

I had no trouble basing out of Morin's as non inked, people were even nice to me.
It may have changed since I played there, though.

[Clavis]

cry hard, then roll up a new idea, cry more as it's getting approved. Delete all your old loving memories, but those you would know with your new coat of paint. Roll your shoulders, and just go do what your new freshly laundered toon would do. See that one that killed you, rp with them, figure out of your new face likes him, or not.

In the past I've mated someone that killed a prior toon, killed a former mate, hated someone a toon loved. and was terrified of someone i knew I shouldn't of been, but hey my new cyber meat sack didn't know that.

[Reiloth]

cry hard, then roll up a new idea, cry more as it's getting approved. Delete all your old loving memories, but those you would know with your new coat of paint. Roll your shoulders, and just go do what your new freshly laundered toon would do. See that one that killed you, rp with them, figure out of your new face likes him, or not.

In the past I've mated someone that killed a prior toon, killed a former mate, hated someone a toon loved. and was terrified of someone i knew I shouldn't of been, but hey my new cyber meat sack didn't know that.

I think you're misinterpreting. I have absolutely no tears shed or misgivings when a PC of mine (even a really long lived one) dies. It's usually a relief, i'm more bummed when I store. The proximity effect i'm talking about is something that is purely unintentional -- If you have 9 active PCs kicking around Allanak, and one of them dies, but the other 8 are still around, there's little chance to not intermingle streams so to speak. It's fine, and I think most people can figure out justifications after a time. What is definitely missing is the bounce you could do between Tuluk and Allanak, which was very simple in my mind.

I also abhor the fact you call it a toon.

[manipura]

I also abhor the fact you call it a toon.

I see it occasionally pop up on the GDB...It makes me cringe and twitch every time.

Edited to add some on-topic rambling:
I tend to think along the same lines as a couple other people who have already posted... (Delerium maybe?  And Armaddict, I think) ...that it isn't really a huge issue.  There's going to be overlap because it's a relatively small playerbase and because people tend to play at the same times, whether they have a new character or a long-lived character.  Unless you've made the very same PC, I think it's quite likely that you'll see different sides of characters and form different relationships with them, when you cross paths again.  I'm not horribly bothered by coming across a new character and thinking "Hey wait...I think maybe this is so-and-so", because I think people should be able to play what they like, where they like and I think our playerbase is mature enough to not abuse the inevitable overlapping of characters.

What -was- nice about having Tuluk as an option for a 'next character' was that you could make two city-based characters in a row and have them in different cities, therefore avoiding a lot of the overlap without having to make drastically different characters just to accomplish this.

[valeria]

I realize overlap isn't going to bother everyone, but it does bother me. I just do not like already knowing things about a character that my current character hasn't discovered on their own. The meta behind having to question whether X is something this character or a previous character knew tends to knock me out of an IC headspace, unless it has been long enough for me to forget just about everything anyway (usually a couple years). "Just play a completely different character and learn them in a new way" doesn't work for me.

[Reiloth]

I realize overlap isn't going to bother everyone, but it does bother me. I just do not like already knowing things about a character that my current character hasn't discovered on their own. The meta behind having to question whether X is something this character or a previous character knew tends to knock me out of an IC headspace, unless it has been long enough for me to forget just about everything anyway (usually a couple years). "Just play a completely different character and learn them in a new way" doesn't work for me.

I agree, and this is an eloquently posed point. I think we're all capable adults and can separate IC from OOC and all that jazz, but it becomes tricky when you're a bunch of mice stuffed into one container. It becomes difficult to separate the knowledge over a span of characters, and it was a bit easier when you had a whole new cage to jump into. There still is -- I suppose I just prefer to play in a city, not in Luirs or Red Storm. So my options become limited, when my playstyle and type of PC are pretty locked in at this point after 14 years of playing.

[nauta]

Easy-peasy: just roll up a murderer and murder everyone you used to know.  There are IG solutions here, guys!

But more seriously, I've also had this thought -- it only applies to city-based characters, since the Tribal/Luirs/Morins sphere is pretty isolated from the Allanak/Rinth/RSV sphere, so you can go: city, tribal, city, tribal, pretty easily.  However, I do like having a lot of density in Allanak -- it in fact allows certain subscenes in Allanak to flourish (and as a result, you might not encounter them, e.g., gemmed and rinthers -- if there are a lot of gemmed and rinthers, you might not see very many gemmed and rinthers as a Borsail or a Fale).

So, on a whole, I think I'm happy the way it is since I can't see a solution other than opening Tuluk back up.

[Dunetrade55]

Pitch a fit, submit complaints, ragequit on the forums, then hurl computer out the window in a fit of tear-filled rage screaming "FUUUUUUUCK YOU SUPER-SCRAB!!!!"

Get arrested by authorities, fined by property owner, committed to an asylum, then spend the more lucid moments, strapped to a bed plotting revenge, sweet revenge.

Get released, app in fme secret breed rogue magicker assassin. Get scrabbed straight out of chargen trying to twink backstab.

Repeat.

[Lizzie]

It really depends, at least for me. There are some players I really LIKE RPing around, and some I really don't like RPing around. While I don't create my characters with any "agenda", I do take my RP "play date" preferences into consideration. I have no trouble keeping IC and OOC distinct, whether my IC goals overlap or are contrary to my OOC goals. If my character knew Amos from clan life, and I enjoyed RPing with Amos, my next character is probably going to get along with Amos if they ever run into each other. OOC personalities tend to get drawn to each other like that. I don't fight against it, and I don't push or "arrange" for it to happen. I'm just pretty laid back about that. As long as you don't see Amos and Talia both die the same day, and roll back up as Malik and Amosa, twins of the same tribe, I don't think it's really an issue.

[Case]

Normally I play in different areas. If I know another PC well from past experiences, I let them try to get to know me or not. If it's a PC I never interacted with, I try to get to know them.

[RogueGunslinger]

Generally just not joning the clan they're in is mroe than enough for me. Most of the time I have no issue roleplaying that I don't know old friends if I do end up in the same clan or area as them.

Also if you wait a couple weeks half of those fuckers are dead anyways.

You can still make a Tuluki, or a northerner in Morins if you really need to get away. Also tribal humans, rinth, military, byn, tribal elves... All tend to do their own things with only a little interaction with each-other.

[Clavis]

cry hard, then roll up a new idea, cry more as it's getting approved. Delete all your old loving memories, but those you would know with your new coat of paint. Roll your shoulders, and just go do what your new freshly laundered toon would do. See that one that killed you, rp with them, figure out of your new face likes him, or not.

In the past I've mated someone that killed a prior toon, killed a former mate, hated someone a toon loved. and was terrified of someone i knew I shouldn't of been, but hey my new cyber meat sack didn't know that.

I think you're misinterpreting. I have absolutely no tears shed or misgivings when a PC of mine (even a really long lived one) dies. It's usually a relief, i'm more bummed when I store. The proximity effect i'm talking about is something that is purely unintentional -- If you have 9 active PCs kicking around Allanak, and one of them dies, but the other 8 are still around, there's little chance to not intermingle streams so to speak. It's fine, and I think most people can figure out justifications after a time. What is definitely missing is the bounce you could do between Tuluk and Allanak, which was very simple in my mind.

I also abhor the fact you call it a toon.

yeah I miss the bounce I could do between tuluk and nak. Sadly though there will always be the intermingling do to many hunting all over, and if your playtimes match you usually end up bumping into them. As for the toon thing, eh, just wait one post it'll be a toon, another will be a pc, another a char, another a charie, I honestly call my characters over a dozen things.

[Dunetrade55]

I call all my PCs "Doom Fodder".

[Kankman]

On the whole, I'm glad Tuluk is gone.

I watched Tuluk get rebuilt, and completely respect the work everyone did for it. It was a huge undertaking. Impressive.

For me, it just never fit the theme quite right. Always felt too big and too empty.

That said, when I came back, I went through a handful of characters in rapid fire (as I tend to do, on #249 right now), and found it extremely difficult not to get sucked into the same group with each one.

Red Storm, however, is different enough. No, it's not Allanak, but it's definitely more populated with PCs than I've ever seen it. The clanned characters of Allanak aren't allowed to travel there, for the most part, so it forces interaction with different PC groups when you base your play there vs. Allanak. It's also close enough that you can travel back and forth when you need some variety or interest. Much less isolated than Luir's Outpost.

I still haven't figured out where Morin's is. Or what Morin's is.

Southern life FTW.

[Jihelu]

On the whole, I'm glad Tuluk is gone.

I watched Tuluk get rebuilt, and completely respect the work everyone did for it. It was a huge undertaking. Impressive.

For me, it just never fit the theme quite right. Always felt too big and too empty.

That said, when I came back, I went through a handful of characters in rapid fire (as I tend to do, on #249 right now), and found it extremely difficult not to get sucked into the same group with each one.

Red Storm, however, is different enough. No, it's not Allanak, but it's definitely more populated with PCs than I've ever seen it. The clanned characters of Allanak aren't allowed to travel there, for the most part, so it forces interaction with different PC groups when you base your play there vs. Allanak. It's also close enough that you can travel back and forth when you need some variety or interest. Much less isolated than Luir's Outpost.

I still haven't figured out where Morin's is. Or what Morin's is.

Southern life FTW.

Lets say you just left Tuluks main gate.
You'll hit a road that goes East and south.
South is towards Gortoks and Luirs, East is back to Nak.
If you go north one room there will be a small dirt road to Morins.
I don't think this counts as meta or anything because, well, it's not that hard to find.

[Lizzie]

Morin's was the Kadius lumber outpost, and has become a home to displaced Tulukis and traders.

Jihelu's directions are a bit off - since the road out of the Tuluk gate goes west, not east. But yeah - Morin's is just off that road, near the first turn after the gate.

[path]

Personally I sit in the shower and cry.

Seriously, though, this is tough. Particularly since I prefer to play humans. I think a race switch, gender switch and guild switch would help a lot. Go from a social character to a military one or to the tribes, the elf tribes, escaped slave, build a skimmer crew, sift spice, become a grebber for rare herbs and flowers, sink into the gutter of the rinth, app a leadership role. I think there's still plenty of room to switch it up, but the Tuluk thing was almost too easy. I used it, too, and it was helpful.

Lately I think a lot about how to change my characters and playstyle and writing style so my PCs aren't too obvious, one to the next.

[a french mans shirt]

I never have green eyes or hunt, which actually narrows me down considerably. Other than that, I've done everything.

I've thought about getting a ranger for that sweet forage food, or a burglar with listen, hide and sneak, when I store. One of these days I'll capitulate.

[Reiloth]

Touching back on this issue, honestly my solution is taking a break from the game. While I feel tempted (like on a Saturday where I don't have anything to do and my wife is working), I just get tired of interacting with the same people in the same PCs. The long-lived Soandso's, and honestly the same Templars and Nobles (No offense guys, I think most of you are great, it's just like watching the 11th season of the Friends. I'm familiar with the cast, and it's the same old hijinks with a different twist on it).

Not having large turnover puts the onus on me, the bored player, to come up with an exciting new concept. Most of the time I draw blanks, but sometimes I get a diamond in the rough. Taking a break gives me a higher % chance of writing something new and interesting, because I have a bit of space from what i've done recently/previously, and I also forget who's who.

So, in essence, before I didn't feel the need to take a break because I could bounce to a different city with a whole different cast of people. Considering I play typically long-lived characters because i'm such a GENIUS (See: Code Guru, Synthesis), this means by the time I bounce back to a different city, it's a typically new crew of people with some exceptions in leadership positions. Mind you when I say Long Lived, I do actually put my PCs in dangerous situations on purpose because of this. Low wisdom PCs don't necessarily think 'Oh, maybe an invitation to an apartment means death!', and that sort of thing. Dangerous missions, hunts, sign me up.

I know we like to get down on Tuluk for not fitting the setting, but honestly, Armageddon seems a lot more 'One Trick Pony' without Tuluk around. Tuluk was Zalanthas for me, and without it around, I feel a lot less driven to play the game.

[Barsook]

I know we like to get down on Tuluk for not fitting the setting, but honestly, Armageddon seems a lot more 'One Trick Pony' without Tuluk around. Tuluk was Zalanthas for me, and without it around, I feel a lot less driven to play the game.

That.

I'm also burnt out for the same reasons stated above and other reasons that I can't think of, though one is the lack of player to player interactions at times.

[Dunetrade55]

You know it could just be as simple as when someone actually encounters conflict that could result in death, they leave the public eye, perhaps over multiple characters?.. I mean, yes, it's a crapsack world but sometimes when you're playing a non-suicidal concept you're enjoying, socializing, though it's an OOC desire, is not ICly appropriate for your PC... to my understanding, this ducking of socialization was more prevalent in Tuluk, for various reasons.

[Melkor]

This hits very close to home, for me. Years back, when I played, my go-to was to change locations.

Now.... It is still possible, and I did to an extent, but encounters due to playtimes still happen...

I am dreading seeing a PC I used to love, because my new character wont love them.

It will be so fucking sad.

[WarriorPoet]

I bail as far away as I can. What fun is pretending I don't know everyone's secrets when I do? I have to get out and away to avoid the temptation of using my other character's knowledge.

[Esadal]

You don't have to do any of this if you kill everyone first.


Shameless use of meme is shameless.

For a serious answer..  I agree with the ideas of others.  Taking a month break can both refresh your mind, give you plenty of time to get that special app approved, AND a lot of people will... disappear in that short of a time.

[deskoft]

Yes, breaks are great to return and get right into the character you want to get into without having the stigmas, mindset and emotions you had from your past PC. You can be as trained into writing another character as you want; you will still feel -something- when you see /that/ PC that killed yours, or /that/ group of PCs you used to be friends with rolling about without yours. In fact, you might be tempted to make some jokes while thinking that because it's not the same style of jokes you issued in the past it's fine: nope. Not for me.

I take a break, I use the break to plot my next PC, and then when I feel absolutely disconnected to my previous PC I roll my next one. Playing in games with lower playerbases than Arm helped me with that.

I guess it's easier to write a book and kill off a character you created there with another character you also created, than to lose your only character in a MUD. It's sort of the end of the book, with no possible sequel. So yes, breaks. Breaks. Breaks everywhere.

[Feco]

The feeling of becoming an enemy with a pc you were friends with is a good one.

[RogueGunslinger]

I just roll another and get playing and put no thought into shit like remembering who's who and what their secrets are. After you've run into an old friend so many times it becomes easy to roleplay appropriately.