Bone bows and crossbows - are they realistic?

[anvilsmith]

From what I know, when an arrow is held against a bowstring and pulled back, the bow itself bends elastically as a result, building up energy that it then releases into the arrow, thus helping to propel it forward. Without this ability to bend, which is conferred by the material of the bow, the strength of the bow is considerably diminished. This is why it surprises me to see bone bows and crossbows available for crafting in the game, as bones are designed to be rigid, i.e. non-elastic. Are these weapons unrealistic?

For what it's worth, composite bows are made from an inner layer of antler, followed by a layer of wood and an outer layer of sinew, if memory serves, but this is because the inner side of the bow is meant to be more rigid than the outer side by design. I am not aware of any selfbows in the real world that are made out of bones. Searching for "bone bow" and "bone selfbow" yields only computer-game-related results, as well as normal bows made out of wood.

[HavokBlue]

The vast majority of weapons in Armageddon are implausible and/or unrealistic given the materials used to craft them. Obsidian and stone would make poor longswords and a bone sword won't hold an edge.

We have doors with locks, despite no metal.

[BadSkeelz]

Egyptians made keyed pin locks with wood thousands of years ago.

Crafting a bow out of a single piece of bone is largely fantasy. I can't say I can recall many "Bow longbow" items, but I tend not to pay attention to bows in general. Most bow items I can recall are made of wood or composites. I would definitely rate them more realistic designs, but you're likely to see unrealistic things as well. It's something of a running joke/fanon theory that Armageddon obsidian is not quite the same as real world obsidian due to the absurd uses it can get put to.

[solera]

Talking of bones, Fire hardened bone doesn't 't seem to be a thing either.
And, does any one know of the equivalent to isilt in RL? I assumed it was boiling / roasting bones in fat, but last time I searched Google, I couldn't find anything.

[Majikal]

Without a doubt, bone bows are unrealistic, but...

Over the years I've seen tons of posts concerning realism, the sizes of the bugs, what types of plants would survive on zalanthas, weather cycles, weapons, armor, stones, red earth and it's iron content, what color the sky should be, how quivers should be worn and bows unstrung. Some of these threads have really blown up and some interesting discussions have happened, one in particular that interested me was one about caring for your bow (which led to me learning how to rp more fondness for my rangery dudes and their bows).

It has been for a long time that people have used tons of reasons to justify why things are the way they are   (bones are different here/it's not earth/zalanthan bugs function differently/zalanthan humans are stronger than earth humans/it's magick/plants aren't like the plants you know/ etc). I'll continue to maintain that this is a fantasy game though and that using stone swords and bone bows with a quiver on my back just like Legolas is awesome while I fight giant beetles that would implode under their own weight, my immersion will remain intact.

Though with the mastercraft system and builders and staff kicking out items there's definitely a change in quality and flavor of what's being brought into the game over the past few years. I think with time players/staff are designing more realistic and thematic items for the database and in a way phasing out these old relics that have been around for as long as I can remember.

[BadSkeelz]

Though with the mastercraft system and builders and staff kicking out items there's definitely a change in quality and flavor of what's being brought into the game over the past few years. I think with time players/staff are designing more realistic and thematic items for the database and in a way phasing out these old relics that have been around for as long as I can remember.

r.i.p. curved stone sword that is explicitly (if not wholly favorably) compared to steel twice in its mdesc.

[Majikal]

Though with the mastercraft system and builders and staff kicking out items there's definitely a change in quality and flavor of what's being brought into the game over the past few years. I think with time players/staff are designing more realistic and thematic items for the database and in a way phasing out these old relics that have been around for as long as I can remember.

r.i.p. curved stone sword that is explicitly (if not wholly favorably) compared to steel twice in its mdesc.

Once grabbed up an item for 85 sid that was 'an elvish longbow', the enlightening description was something like:
This slender longbow has an elvish curve to it and looks strong.

I giggled, remembered the days of halflings chilling at the bar drinking with mantis, wished up to get the item nix'd and moved on.

[Molten Heart]

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[Totally]

Could we please... please begin to phase out obsidian longswords and obsidian armor?  It's glass.  GLASS.

[valeria]

Could we please... please begin to phase out obsidian longswords and obsidian armor?  It's glass.  GLASS.

SOMEONE NEVER PLAYED SKYRIM

[Malken]

Could we please... please begin to phase out obsidian longswords and obsidian armor?  It's glass.  GLASS.

SOMEONE NEVER PLAYED SKYRIM

IT'S NOT GLASS IT'S A VERY FELSIC GLASSLIKE MINERALOID MADE OF HIGH VISCOSITY AND POLYMERIZATION DEGREE OF LAVA BUT LACKING THE USUAL CRYSTAL GROWTH THAT WOULD MAKE YOUR MAMA WANT TO BANG IT

[Molten Heart]

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[BadSkeelz]

I want stone plate mail and I want it to be anti-magic



also I want a tooth of the Dragon to use as a hammer.

One alternative is to have metal play a more prevalent in the game. Do we want metal to be a useful item that makes certain feats possible? Or just create some plausibility for other materials (bone, stone, obsidian, hide, chitin, etc) to fill those same rolls?

Allowing only certain things to be made because they are made with metal, and also making metal more common would be great. It'd increase competition and conflict for the resource and make it more than the vanity item it currently is. The people with the metal would be better than those without it because they could do things better. Metal items could be like a poor mans magick items for mundanes but without the connotations that come with magick.

On a more serious Design note, I don't think we need more metal represented to accomplish what we have in mind. It just takes some creative thinking to make an object that "fits" within the game world without having to break reality by shoehorning an ingredient in to a role it isn't really designed to fill.

One example I remember seeing in game was the idea of Obsidian Ringmail. Now, the main problem with this idea (aside from the weight and the relative brittleness of obsidian) is that unless you're a Rukkian there is absolutely no way you could create a series of interlocking stone rings. (Maybe the proposer was a Rukkian? I like to think so and I think it would be a neat project to pursue as one.)

A compromise design would be creating a coat of plates using obsidian disks, bound together with hide that is run through holes in the plates themselves. It isn't exactly what you want, it isn't terribly feasible, but it's far more plausible.

[Jihelu]

I'd love to see a merchant/mage create an armor that requires a magick touch to actually make, but not have a passive magick effect.

[Molten Heart]

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[Hauwke]

You want to know something that does rattle my cage about armageddons weapons and armor.

Their bloody weight. Like for realls guys if my elf cant swing a bastard sword wtf is wrong. A scottish highlands claymore made of STEEL weighs about 2 1/2 kg. What idiot is physically incapable of swinging the equivalent of a newborn infant in one hand. And dear god if that sounds crazy I know it does.

These are bone swords people. Any retard can swing a weapon that weighs less than 2 1/2 kg. And these folks are stronger? I think not.
Rant part of the post over.


An obsidian sword does make -some- sense. But only small swords, like daggers and knives at most, glass has a  -incredible- edge to it. If you developed that over centuries like the good folks in Zalanthas probably have you would get something quite effective at killing folks. Then you get things like those swords made of wood and edged with obsidian. Those would be down right nuts I think. Able to slice through leather like its butter nearly at the right angle. As for metal. Those would make great coded weapons and armor due to what I would assume to be *cough* added stats *cough* and all the other factors.


Tl;dr the good folks of Zalanthas have been developing these weapons and armor for well over:
22nd age X 77 years per age =1694 years

Which is just the readily accessed by everyone chronology on the arm homepage. These guys have probably been using these materials in ways we wouldnt understand. But I do agree things like breastplates of glass is quite silly. A blade? Eh some realism I guess

[Lizzie]

Bone bows are somewhat more realistic than erdlus, kryl, Drovians, and muls that eat their way out of their mothers' womb to be born.
Bone bows are somewhat less realistic than mandatory need for bowel movement and urination, spontaneous death due to heart attacks/stroke/childbirth, and the physiological and psychological need to sleep every day or two.

Do you want realism, or do you want playability? Sometimes - you can have the two. Sometimes you can't. In the case of bone bows, I'm totally fine with the suspension of disbelief in exchange for playability.

[Jihelu]

Bone bows are somewhat more realistic than erdlus, kryl, Drovians Nilazi , and muls that eat their way out of their mothers' womb to be born.
Bone bows are somewhat less realistic than mandatory need for bowel movement and urination, spontaneous death due to heart attacks/stroke/childbirth, and the physiological and psychological need to sleep every day or two.

Do you want realism, or do you want playability? Sometimes - you can have the two. Sometimes you can't. In the case of bone bows, I'm totally fine with the suspension of disbelief in exchange for playability.

I giggled.

I think bone bows and stuff could simply go with the "BUT ZALANTHAS" response.
That and we have wood.
Maybe we should just switch to all wooden bows/crossbows