ALRIGHT EVERYBODY BE COOL! THIS IS A ROBBERY!

[Malifaxis]

So, Honeybunny, I was thinking.

How cool would it be to have an actual coded raiding assistant?  Pointing a loaded fucking crossbow at someone should give a raider/robber a coded advantage.  I would *love* to see this put in, but perhaps only for crossbows... longbows maaaybe. 

Syntax:
train crossbow hardnose
You begin to aim your crossbow at Lord Templar Hardnose, sighting in.
(delay from skill check)
You draw a bead on Lord Templar Hardnose, and are ready to fire.

Now at that point, any 'countering' action by LT Hardnose would automatically trigger the 'shoot' command with no delay to the shot.  Instantaneous.  Countering actions would be considered:
Any form of movement from the room  (stealthy types might be able to kick off a hide, but if done without IC reason... yeah, bad.  Also, if it fails, motherfuckers get shot)
Any form of visibly arming themselves (you stealthy types could possibly still do it)
Any form of casting.  Because fuck mages.  FUCK YOU MAGES!
Any form of shouting. Don't alert them coppers, punk!

I think if we were to add this particular code in, and make it exclusive to say rangers and asses, that it could add a lot of really awesome opportunities for people to be raided out in the sands and OMG YES GET ROBBED IN THE FUCKING CITY BECAUSE THAT SHIT NEEDS TO START HAPPENING.

So... anyway, that's my morning brain barf.  Whatcha all think?

[Malken]

I love this idea

Would be even better if you could aim your crossbow at a mage's mouth JUST BECAUSE.

Even better when you think about poisoned bolts. Aww yissss.

[nauta]

I like the idea (especially with crossbows).  

Having just recently perused previous threads on similar ideas in the raider discussion (a threaten command, for instance, a block command, an intercept command), the general consensus seems to have been that implementing more code in a raiding scenario actually has the counter-intuitive-at-first effect of weakening the RP potential in a scene: once a raider goes to code, for instance, the opponent then swaps from 'let's-have-some-fun-emoting' to 'flee/kill'.  Or so the thought went, roughly.

That said, I'm not convinced by that argument, and this idea is a little bit different.

One addition (a wild one):

o If we implemented an hemote with the use of the way, something like: (The burly guy's eyes go a litlte distant.)

o We could also trigger it on usage of the way (providing you are watching).

[Miradus]

I'd split this idea off from the whole "raid" concept because, well, it doesn't make sense to be just for that purpose.

But I think having your ranged weapon locked and loaded and "trained" on a target should give you some sort of accuracy bonus. And there should be plenty of room echoes and time delays to alert others present that you are pointing a weapon at them, whether they are hidden echoes or otherwise.

It's a bit of a metagame otherwise. A guy pointing a crossbow at my chest from three feet away I'm not going to say, "I'll disregard that crossbow because I know he doesn't get a point blank bonus and as soon as I try to kill him I'll get free attacks while he changes weapons."

It should not be an "I win" button where you get crazy bonuses and they can't respond at all, but there should certainly be some value to doing it.

[Miradus]

I'm against adding more code just for raiders. You already can guard exits, track, bash, subdue, or sap. It just seems as if a lot of potential raiders want to not use those skills and rely on roleplay to poweremote over the top of the other guy.

The code is there for a reason. It's like that asshole in all these RP enforced muds who wants to hunker in the corner and emote that he has his backpack cradled in his arms and that nobody could ever possibly pickpocket him because he's wary of everything and not letting anyone get close. You can't poweremote your way to invincibility.

[Malifaxis]

.... I think you perhaps might be missing the point.

This would not be a "perfect insta killshot."  This would be a readied action with perhaps light bonuses.

This isn't to prevent someone from spamfleeing.  If they're that kind of player, they're going to do it whether you have a coded bonus or not.

This is to add in a realistic act that you can perform in a realistic world which would highly benefit the cause of furthering criminal activity within Allanak, making it more interesting.

Yes, if you have 2 to 4 people, you can guard exits.  Yes, if you are in city, and you want to bash them, you certainly can... and will instantly be eradicated by any militia close enough.

This isn't at all a metagame.  This is a realistic backup of code towards what could expectedly happen in a world setting.  That's all.

And not everyone looks at the world in terms of bonuses and damage.  Not all of us are Neo.  Sure, while we as players understand that there's code, a very large percentage of us take pride in not letting that effect how our character would realistically act.

[Narf]

I think in a game where leaving a room is effectively instantaneous (at least the first one), then having any sort of system of readied actions is a necessary counterbalance.

I'd much rather this than the perhaps more realistic option of adding a delay to leaving a room.

[Majikal]

Seriously, everything about this.

And here's a clip of that code backfiring on one of the raiders!

[lostinspace]

Just make it a sub ability of archery, only useable with crossbows. I don't see any reason why it needs to be a skill, or why only rangers and assassins should get it.

[Miradus]

And not everyone looks at the world in terms of bonuses and damage.  Not all of us are Neo.  Sure, while we as players understand that there's code, a very large percentage of us take pride in not letting that effect how our character would realistically act.

Heh. You can say that all you want but it's not my experience AT ALL. Not in this game, not in any game I've ever played. And I'm not so new to this game anymore that I believe in this pristine roleplay environment some of you seem to insist that you have. You don't. In terms of roleplay, this game environment is Lake Wobegon.

If there's a coded advantage, someone will take it. If it's not coded, they will try to roleplay that they have it.

Your idea is a good one, but it applies equally to an NPC tregil in the desert to another player. If I spend some extra time focusing my aim then there should be a bonus to it, whether it imposes a movement or an attack delay or simply a to-hit bonus.

Think of it like subdue. If you subdue me, I'm not done for. I can type flee self and try to get away, with consequences for failure. If you manage to pull a crossbow, load it, and point it at my chest then I should face the potential consequences for trying to get away from that, but it shouldn't be an "I win" button.

I know that pk doesn't have to be consensual in this game, but in reality, you have to have slipped up pretty badly to be killed by another player here without being able to see it coming. If you want to add in a lot more ways to make it non-consensual then you really need to fix the combat system and balance some other aspects first.

[nauta]

Code Select Expand


The figure in a dark hooded cloak arrives from the east, crossbow drawn.
>l r
The portly, one-eyed merchant is standing here.
The scruffy, two-eyed shitcloak is standing here.
The figure in a dark hooded cloak tells the portly, one-eyed merchant, leveling his crossbow at the merchant's chest:
   "Ain't make no stupid moves."
>train crossbow portly
The figure in a dark hooded cloak trains his crossbow at the portly, one-eyed merchant.


You might consider a flee check from the victim to check off of the agility of the assailant.

[Malifaxis]

Just make it a sub ability of archery, only useable with crossbows. I don't see any reason why it needs to be a skill, or why only rangers and assassins should get it.

Assassins, if I recall, don't actually get archery.  I may be wrong on that, haven't played ass in a while.

[Miradus]

They don't. I tried one recently and was very disappointed to find that it wasn't there. You have to pick it up from a subguild.

The archery in this game is pretty well presented, if you get past the playability aspect of being able to shoot the equivalent of several miles.

[nauta]

YES GET ROBBED IN THE FUCKING CITY BECAUSE THAT SHIT NEEDS TO START HAPPENING.

One question though: How would this be successful in the city, granted the crim-code that exists?  Wouldn't the consequences of firing the shot bring the wrath of the soldiers down on you?  Or are you thinking this would supplement the extant options for night-time muggings?

[Malifaxis]

YES GET ROBBED IN THE FUCKING CITY BECAUSE THAT SHIT NEEDS TO START HAPPENING.

One question though: How would this be successful in the city, granted the crim-code that exists?  Wouldn't the consequences of firing the shot bring the wrath of the soldiers down on you?  Or are you thinking this would supplement the extant options for night-time muggings?

This combined with the current options makes a successful robbery so much more possible.

[Miradus]

I think the city should be the most dangerous place in the game, particularly at night.

Malifaxis, I know you are trying to give other players some roleplay interaction, but seriously, with the way the society works, why would a potential mugger or bandit ever give their victim a chance? An arrow fired from the rooftop and then an accomplice looting the body would be much safer than trying to stick a crossbow in someone's face.

Thieves are generally thieves because they want the most money with the least work and the safest means.

I remember the very first time I played a pickpocket in Allanak I was watching on a rooftop and some guy in a cloak dragged a subdued victim into an alley. In the morning I went down there to investigate and found that they'd murdered the victim (an NPC) and arranged the corpse with decent roleplay. Very epic. Haven't seen anything that awesome since.

That's the sort of Nak I imagine, not the gentleman highwayman who sticks a crossbow in your face and says, "Stand and deliver, my good man, and you will not be harmed."

[RogueGunslinger]

I'd be totally cool with crossbows being more deadly. Doing a "stick up." should crim-code you. So I pretty much agree with Miradus.

[Reiloth]

Hmm. I'd rather introduce this as a broader code addition rather than something so specific to robbery/raiding. Being able to 'ready an action', for example. But I dunno -- I think that people could play along better with robberies like this via RP. The other thing is robberies like this, without lots of manpower, couldn't really happen before the invention of the semi-automatic weapon. It's a bit of an anachronism, when you consider how long it takes to reload a crossbow, and that people can easily chop you up with bone swordz in the interim. The threat of being shot doesn't outweigh the ability to overwhelm your robber, especially in crowded places like the Gaj or the Nenyuk Bank.

The power of robberies such as this (Say, Pulp Fiction, or Bonnie and Clyde), is you had a lot of innocent bystanders, people who aren't trained warriors or assassins or soldiers, just going to the bank or going to get a bite to eat when some 'Big Bad Guy' comes in and demands all of their money! The clientele of places like the Gaj, or even Nenyuk Bank, aren't just regular joe shmoes for the most part. Even the vNPC population would include Bynners, Soldiers, and basically 'martially aware' people. So, while they might not want any trouble and hand over a few coins, it isn't the capitalist republic that America is, where we have blue collar workers who've never touched a weapon in their life going about their day to day. The 'fear' of robberies like these is that the Big Bad Guy has a seriously awful weapon, that can kill indiscriminately, and kill many people very quickly. So if you try to act the hero, you could be dead like *that*, and the Big Bad Guy doesn't break a sweat. Shooting a crossbow at someone isn't necessarily fatal, and the reload time inbetween shots is excruciatingly slow.

So, unless you roll into the Bank with 20 people, each with 2 hand crossbows, I don't think you're going to seem that threatening, if there are more than a few guards and bystanders. I don't think Bystanders would want to get in the way, but I think mob mentality would take over if everyone was ganging up on the dumb guy with the crossbow.

Until Crime Code is a more robust, subtle system, this is also basically a death sentence either way...I might change my mind, if soandso moves I might not shoot him, I might shoot another guy...Leaving it all to an automatic shot, and basically an automatic death for my criminal, doesn't sit well with me.

I like the sentiment behind the suggestion, but I think something more subtle across many systems (Crime Code, RP of the playerbase, code behind readying an action) would need to take place. It's actually a rather large suggestion. Not that that makes it a bad suggestion, it just...WEll, it's a big subject!

[nauta]

I'd be totally cool with crossbows being more deadly.

While crossbows are sexy:



Shortbows are sexy too:

[valeria]

Why just crossbows, again, instead of any ranged or thrown weapon?

[Malifaxis]

Why just crossbows, again, instead of any ranged or thrown weapon?

Code Select Expand

The bushy-goateed, flame-haired man opens his mouth for a witty retort.

666/666hp, SidewaysEight Mana, mood: Awesome
You think, feeling like you'll probably lose this one, "Wait, Valeria actually shoots bows and shit, and your knowledge is perhaps somewhat limited to what R.A. Salvatore has taught you.

Uh... no, no reason ma'am.  All ranged weapons are probably pretty good. 

[Miradus]

The draw weight on my compound bow is ~54 pounds. That's about medium, I think, since I know plenty of macho guys roll with 70-80.

I can go to full draw and hold it for maybe 15 seconds before I have to take the shot or release the draw. So no, you're not going to be able to keep a bow trained on a target and ready to fire.

This idea really only works with crossbows. Likewise, I also don't see someone standing there for a long conversation with a knife or throwing axe held overhead and ready to throw.

[LauraMars]

I can go to full draw and hold it for maybe 15 seconds before I have to take the shot or release the draw.

Come on, give the game a little leeway to strike a cool pose and do one of these:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XtoBFXSvD6Y

[RogueGunslinger]

The draw weight on my compound bow is ~54 pounds. That's about medium, I think, since I know plenty of macho guys roll with 70-80.

I can go to full draw and hold it for maybe 15 seconds before I have to take the shot or release the draw. So no, you're not going to be able to keep a bow trained on a target and ready to fire.

This idea really only works with crossbows. Likewise, I also don't see someone standing there for a long conversation with a knife or throwing axe held overhead and ready to throw.

Who says they have to sit there with the bow drawn. Could easily draw and fire in an instant if the arrow is already nocked.

[Jihelu]

The draw weight on my compound bow is ~54 pounds. That's about medium, I think, since I know plenty of macho guys roll with 70-80.

I can go to full draw and hold it for maybe 15 seconds before I have to take the shot or release the draw. So no, you're not going to be able to keep a bow trained on a target and ready to fire.

This idea really only works with crossbows. Likewise, I also don't see someone standing there for a long conversation with a knife or throwing axe held overhead and ready to throw.

Who says they have to sit there with the bow drawn. Could easily draw and fire in an instant if the arrow is already nocked.

Sounds inaccurate