Magickers discovering spell combos: Symbol command.

[WanderingOoze]

So you actually have to type :

>Cast *a bunch of words*
To do magic?

I always thought that the magicked skills worked like:

>Cast Lightning bolt.

And then the rest was like an automatic echo of

so-and-so says "highly juuun happily sumsuchnonesense"
A destructive Lightning bolt shoots from so-and-so's fingers and melts your face off

[Jihelu]

You do have to cast all the words.
This is so you can cast at different power levels.
Say you want to use mon lightning bolt at someone? Well, you put mon in your cast.
Say you want to cast it as wek to just fuck with people? Instead of mon you'd put wek.
Etc.

[Taven]

I think this is a fantastic addition to the game.

+1

[Rokal]

I think this is a fantastic addition to the game.

+1

+1

This allows people to spend more time RPing and less time figuring things out.

people can still chose to take the old route ,or RP with more experienced mages.

[Chettaman]

Back in my day, we knew the meaning of divan hekro.

xD
For real, though. This is a cool new command and I have no complaints against it.

[Lizzie]

I think this is a fantastic addition to the game.

+1

+1

This allows people to spend more time RPing and less time figuring things out.

people can still chose to take the old route ,or RP with more experienced mages.

New players might not understand the need or even develop an interest in taking the old route or "spending more time RPing" if the code does all the work for them.

[Malken]

I think this is a fantastic addition to the game.

+1

+1

This allows people to spend more time RPing and less time figuring things out.

people can still chose to take the old route ,or RP with more experienced mages.

New players might not understand the need or even develop an interest in taking the old route or "spending more time RPing" if the code does all the work for them.

New players usually don't start as mage either so it doesn't matter. By the time they get a chance to play a magicker, it means that they understand that this is a role-playing game and that they are expected to role-play accordingly (1st karma requirement)

[Iiyola]

I think this is a fantastic addition to the game.

[Molten Heart]

.

[Chettaman]

I think this is a fantastic addition to the game.

+1

+1

This allows people to spend more time RPing and less time figuring things out.

people can still chose to take the old route ,or RP with more experienced mages.

New players might not understand the need or even develop an interest in taking the old route or "spending more time RPing" if the code does all the work for them.

I see what you mean, Lizzie.
People will receive the words and not even know what they mean, but... in some cases, I guess that's the point?
And you're right. People might not even consider the vast ... secret stuff behind the words that are just given to them.
Just like a youtube video they'll fast forward through the stuff they don't care about and skip the commercials in between.

- but um. Yeah. This could be good too. People could be responsible enough to use this code. Especially after one and three karma.

[Lizzie]

I think this is a fantastic addition to the game.

+1

+1

This allows people to spend more time RPing and less time figuring things out.

people can still chose to take the old route ,or RP with more experienced mages.

New players might not understand the need or even develop an interest in taking the old route or "spending more time RPing" if the code does all the work for them.

New players usually don't start as mage either so it doesn't matter. By the time they get a chance to play a magicker, it means that they understand that this is a role-playing game and that they are expected to role-play accordingly (1st karma requirement)

They can play a magicker after their first character. Anyone can special app a rukkian or vivaduan, no karma required.

[Jihelu]

So does this mean sorcerers can symbol their shit as well?
I only ask because it said magickers and that generally includes the elementalists and not the evil/preservers

[Molten Heart]

.

[Raptor_Dan]

This is good, for newbies and veterans alike. Anyone can memorize their spells, and not understand the words.

Just like anyone can memorize the way to luir's (by being shown the first time) and not even understand the rooms and environment around them.

For those who say this takes away from mages understanding of the symbols, good. They can learn them, or not. The advantage is their to pick up if they are willing to do the work we always had to. I am glad this exists, because I was tired of having EVERY magicker have to go through the same routine of codedly trying all the different combinations, when with some of them, I wanted innate knowledge, others I wanted to learn from their v/npc friends, and others I wanted to learn through crazy, magickal means. This is just an RP time-saver for me, and very practical, because it gives more power over RP to the player, and relies less on code or staff.

Thank you. While I think it could be neat to have this 'shortcut' as I'm sure some see it, with crafting, I'm glad it's not put in. Not yet, at least, and hopefully it will not include all crafts, only common simple ones. That way, it's an RP time saver, but still gives an advantage to those who, once again, are willing to go through and do the work, and understand more fully the system they are utilizing.

[Lizzie]

Raptor_Dan, I agree that it's an awesome addition, for all the reasons you say. I also agree that people should be able to RP or not, understanding the words when they first get the spells.

What I disagree with, is that brand-new mages of players who've never played a mage before, not having to go through the trial/error experience at least that first time with that first mage character. I feel it is one of the things about Arm that attracts some players who like puzzling things out. If they show up and hear "oh the answers are right on page 3" they might feel "well then it's not a puzzle at all, is it, who cares, why bother." Not the character - the player.

We already have all the spheres and moods and hints to component information in the help files for mages. So it's not like they have to take wild guesses. The information is (mostly) right there for them. When you add the actual spell combination, you're removing that one aspect of attraction: the puzzle aspect. It makes puzzling things out less fun if you know the answers are just a command away. You know that you've already experienced the puzzling things out aspect, so for the next mage, it's not as much of a puzzle. That's when I feel the command should be available. After the first mage for each character has been stored/PK'ed/spidered.

Being able to "symbol" a spell should be an OOC player unlock bonus, not a given from the get-go.

[boog]

So, it's okay for vets, but not for newbies who get their first karma to experience it?

Just because we had to experience the pain of guesswork doesn't mean future players should, too.

[Chettaman]

I had to make a scholar-like witch to really "understand" how magick works.
I know not everyone is going to make a scholar-like witch.

"understanding" this magick thing is deeper than most may care to imagine. I would suggest reading Eragon for a tickling of knowledge.

but before I made this scholar-like witch I made I dunno... maybe two or three witches before hand that were just using magick like, "I don't care how it works, I just know it works. Ain't nobody got time to be no self aware."

And you know... That's alright.

[Lizzie]

So, it's okay for vets, but not for newbies who get their first karma to experience it?

Just because we had to experience the pain of guesswork doesn't mean future players should, too.

No, I'm not saying that. I'm saying exactly what I said (why does everyone have such a hard time understanding what I post?):

FIRST MAGICK CHARACTER ON ACCOUNT: no "symbol."
If that magick character lasts 2 weeks, that doesn't make the player a vet.
If that magick character is the player's 2nd character ever, and he got it with a special app, that doesn't make him a vet.

You don't have to be a vet in order to have a first magick character. This isn't rocket science, jeez.

[bardlyone]

So, it's okay for vets, but not for newbies who get their first karma to experience it?

Just because we had to experience the pain of guesswork doesn't mean future players should, too.

No, I'm not saying that. I'm saying exactly what I said (why does everyone have such a hard time understanding what I post?):

FIRST MAGICK CHARACTER ON ACCOUNT: no "symbol."
If that magick character lasts 2 weeks, that doesn't make the player a vet.
If that magick character is the player's 2nd character ever, and he got it with a special app, that doesn't make him a vet.

You don't have to be a vet in order to have a first magick character. This isn't rocket science, jeez.

But why make the single most useful tool for playing a guild unavailable to someone who not only has never played it, but also is often using a special app (which are in limited supply for a year) to play, greatly reducing their likelihood of surviving any encounter? That feels needlessly cruel and biased. I get it if you like solving puzzles. Not everyone does. I don't. I'm curious why you think everyone should have to play their first magicker in the way that you like playing magickers, and not be afforded the tools to be able to be as competent or knowledgeable in game. ESPECIALLY when there is a massive list floating around that has all the spell words on it anyhow, and with your FIRST magicker is when you're most likely to want or need that list. ESPECIALLY if (like me), you are not playing this game for some random guesswork puzzle solving to be able to make your guild work the way everyone else's does.

[Miradus]

To add to the above diatribe (which I agree with), it is a KNOWN THING that people "cheat" by sharing info.

So it's an imposed penalty only on those who are willing to follow your arbitrary rules.

I like any command that removes that artificial difficulty.

If a warrior had to guess a string of commands in order to successfully bash something then you'd hear no end of the bitching.

[Lizzie]

So, it's okay for vets, but not for newbies who get their first karma to experience it?

Just because we had to experience the pain of guesswork doesn't mean future players should, too.

No, I'm not saying that. I'm saying exactly what I said (why does everyone have such a hard time understanding what I post?):

FIRST MAGICK CHARACTER ON ACCOUNT: no "symbol."
If that magick character lasts 2 weeks, that doesn't make the player a vet.
If that magick character is the player's 2nd character ever, and he got it with a special app, that doesn't make him a vet.

You don't have to be a vet in order to have a first magick character. This isn't rocket science, jeez.

But why make the single most useful tool for playing a guild unavailable to someone who not only has never played it, but also is often using a special app (which are in limited supply for a year) to play, greatly reducing their likelihood of surviving any encounter? That feels needlessly cruel and biased. I get it if you like solving puzzles. Not everyone does. I don't. I'm curious why you think everyone should have to play their first magicker in the way that you like playing magickers, and not be afforded the tools to be able to be as competent or knowledgeable in game. ESPECIALLY when there is a massive list floating around that has all the spell words on it anyhow, and with your FIRST magicker is when you're most likely to want or need that list. ESPECIALLY if (like me), you are not playing this game for some random guesswork puzzle solving to be able to make your guild work the way everyone else's does.

No one is MAKING a tool unavailable. It has NEVER been available, to ANYONE, until recently. People managed to play mages all this time - some with a list (that has NEVER been complete in the first place and still isn't), and some without the list. What is it about the current batch of new players that you feel makes them less capable of figuring stuff out, or more demanding of the answers, that we have to dumb down the game mechanics?

[bardlyone]

Dumb down mechanics?

I'm not suggesting that.

I'm suggesting we don't arbitrarily keep people from using a tool available to everyone else playing a guild, as an arbitrary penalty because it's their first time playing a guild because YOU the minority think it would be more fun that way, with no regard for the fact that others feel differently.

Don't put that off on me, or put words about new players in my mouth.

You're the one suggesting that something that was implemented across the board not be available to the group that would singularly find the most use in it. I'm saying maybe you should take your own advice when it comes to playing what is and not complaining about what isn't. It might be new, but it's still what is.

And if you think that list is incomplete, then you have never had the list. It's so complete that it had words for spells on it that no playable class even got. And it's still out there floating around, somewhere.

[bardlyone]

Not trying to be snappish or standoffish, it just raises my hackles when it feels like someone's implying I mean or am saying something which is not at all what I mean or am saying.

[Lizzie]

I'm not suggesting that either. I'm suggesting that instead of revealing something to everyone - make it a bonus to those who've taken a little time working on it. Sort of like karma. Instead of just letting everyone roll up what they'd like, give certain options points, that players have to actually earn. And similarly - instead of just letting everyone mastercraft anything they want, just because they have that skill on their list, make the character have to actually master the skill before allowing the *player* to submit a mastercraft recipe to the staff for implementation.

Not sure why some of you are having such a hard time understanding this concept of earning features rather than just having them handed to them, when the game has had this concept implemented in so many other aspects for a couple of decades.

[Lizzie]

Not trying to be snappish or standoffish, it just raises my hackles when it feels like someone's implying I mean or am saying something which is not at all what I mean or am saying.

But it's okay for people to dogpile on me and respond to things I didn't say with implications that I meant otherwise, right? Yeah. Got it.