Magickers discovering spell combos: Symbol command.

[RogueGunslinger]

The Symbol Command: This command is used to display the mood, sphere, and element for a spell that your character knows how to cast. This is considered OOC information, meaning we leave it up to the player to play out how their character knows this information. A mentor may have explained it to them, a parent, magickal intuition, or even hearing it whispered on the wind.

So, no more sifting through random combinations to find the right one? If that's correct then fuck yeah. I never liked that aspect of magick.

[Harmless]

Yeah, it's great because it no longer relies on the storage of information offline, like in your spreadsheetz of arma sekritz (that whole era needs to just die). More code knowledge for all, more focus on RP!

Also, let's have something like this for crafting, where we can sense different crafting options for a single component!

[lostinspace]

The first time I played a magicker and had to puzzle through finding all these spell combos I had a lot of fun. It was a unique and new system I had to figure out. The second time I played that class I had trouble RPing my characters confusion and learning, because I personally knew all the spells. Do I go through them like I did before, infer what I know from the words to get there faster, or does it even matter? It's a big quality of life change for solo magickers and those who want to get into the action as quick as possible. Now all that time spent looking for the right combos can be used sparring up the weapon skills they have /s.

[RogueGunslinger]

The first time I played a magicker and had to puzzle through finding all these spell combos I had a lot of fun. It was a unique and new system I had to figure out.

cast 'blah blah blah blah one' .... Nope.
cast 'blah blah blah blah two' .... Nope.
cast 'blah blah blah blah three' .... Nope.
.....
cast 'blah blah blah blah thirty six' .... Nope.

Can't say I ever had fun doing that.

[nauta]

I think previously I had advocated expanding this aspect of magickal learning, since I found it was fun and prompted interaction, e.g., you'd have to seek a master or bribe another gick to get the code to a newly learned spell.  But then someone pointed out -- it might of even been myself -- that the combinations were so small you could wardial them anyway, making the point moot.

[lostinspace]

cast 'blah blah blah blah one' .... Nope.
cast 'blah blah blah blah two' .... Nope.
cast 'blah blah blah blah three' .... Nope.
.....
cast 'blah blah blah blah thirty six' .... Nope.

Can't say I ever had fun doing that.

Well before I started I'd think about the spell and what the different symbols meant. Most the time I'd get it on try five or six unless it was really oddball. I suppose you could iterate through all the combinations every time, and I did that for a couple I just couldn't get, but those were the exception, not the rule.

[Malken]

If you still want to try and "guess" the correct pattern, no one is stopping you, maybe some people enjoy that but I know I really dislike it

This is a great change!

[Malifaxis]

Back in my day, we knew the meaning of divan hekro.

Here.  Let me teach you.

[nauta]

I like this addition to the help file:

"A mentor may have explained it to them, a parent, magickal intuition, or even hearing it whispered on the wind."

I believe my first question to staff as a gick was how we go about RP learning these symbols.

[Jihelu]

Thank you wind. You helpful shit you.


Now I can finally be my  wind sage/hippy

[Reiloth]

Other things the wind whispers, including symbols:

"Don't get put in the Arena..."

"Divan Hekroooooo...."

"Did you zip up your pants..."

"Behind you! Just kidding...."

[BadSkeelz]

Can I also type >swirdnabuso over and over and obtain Master Slashing?

Just kidding. Seems like a nice change, saving time and giving a bit more organic structure to a wonky part of the code.

[Jihelu]

Other things the wind whispers, including symbols:

"Don't get put in the Arena..."

"Divan Hekroooooo...."

"Did you zip up your pants..."

"Behind you! Just kidding...."

I really do hope you know this is a new character concept for me.
A whiran that hears shit in the wind and is PRETTY SURE they aren't crazy.



Staff...if you ever want to fuck with me by making me hear shit...fucking go for it.

[bardlyone]

Good. It's nice that people who repeatedly play magickers won't have an advantage over those new to the role simply due to the need to figure out spell words. That never made sense to me for an elementalist. A sorcerer, it absolutely made sense, but not for someone whose ability to work with an element was supposed to be inborn. Nice change guys.

[Malifaxis]

There's no bloody advantage that repeat mages get that repeat other classes don't.

Repeat ranger players figure out herbal hotspots and hunting areas.

Repeat merchants figure out all the tough recipes and great shops.

Repeat warriors figure out stack timing and best weapon combos.

The problem here is that a lot of the fun isn't doing spells the dipshit random word assignment way, its in the actual figuring out of what the fucking symbols mean so you can look at the name and help file of a spell and go "Ohhhh... well it definitely isn't an inrof.  Lets try a wril.  Probably a wril."

Honestly I think this command should only be available to mages AFTER they figure out the spell words on their own.

[Culinary Critic]

cast 'blah blah blah blah one' .... Nope.
cast 'blah blah blah blah two' .... Nope.
cast 'blah blah blah blah three' .... Nope.
.....
cast 'blah blah blah blah thirty six' .... Nope.

Can't say I ever had fun doing that.

Well before I started I'd think about the spell and what the different symbols meant. Most the time I'd get it on try five or six unless it was really oddball. I suppose you could iterate through all the combinations every time, and I did that for a couple I just couldn't get, but those were the exception, not the rule.

Totally this, LIS.  Whether or not the player know the words, having your character think through the process, or argue with another player, or "sitting and listening to a lesson in the temple" or even yell at their element about being a bitch (or bastard) for keeping the spell hidden is the role-play that can help define the gickers angst and pain and loss and change.

Nope, sorry staff, you know I think you rock, but I am against this one and wish it gone.

[Dresan]

cast 'blah blah blah blah one' .... Nope.
cast 'blah blah blah blah two' .... Nope.
cast 'blah blah blah blah three' .... Nope.
.....
cast 'blah blah blah blah thirty six' .... Nope.

Can't say I ever had fun doing that.

Well before I started I'd think about the spell and what the different symbols meant. Most the time I'd get it on try five or six unless it was really oddball. I suppose you could iterate through all the combinations every time, and I did that for a couple I just couldn't get, but those were the exception, not the rule.

Totally this, LIS.  Whether or not the player know the words, having your character think through the process, or argue with another player, or "sitting and listening to a lesson in the temple" or even yell at their element about being a bitch (or bastard) for keeping the spell hidden is the role-play that can help define the gickers angst and pain and loss and change.

Nope, sorry staff, you know I think you rock, but I am against this one and wish it gone.

This might makes sense the first time you play, perhaps even the second time. Some people have been playing around 10 years or longer. Ultimately not knowing the commands is only a barrier for a first time mage player. With this change, the choice to use this command is up to you. If you want to RP not knowing any of the commands and having to hunt them down ICly, thats perfectly fine, no one is forcing you to use this command, or a list you created/found/recieved, or heck even your very own memory.

This is a good change.

[Culinary Critic]

Stuff

This might makes sense the first time you play, perhaps even the second time. Some people have been playing around 10 years or longer. Ultimately not knowing the commands is only a barrier for a first time mage player. With this change, the choice to use this command is up to you. If you want to RP not knowing any of the commands and having to hunt them down ICly, thats perfectly fine, no one is forcing you to use this command, or a list you created/found/recieved, or heck even your very own memory.

This is a good change.
[/quote]

But having to craft from scratch shouldn't have the same capability?  Craft armour/weapon/tool/component/rope/soap/it'sahugefuckinglist...shouldn't? 
Symbol: mastercraftwickedcoolbonesword
Oh, go forage a bit of bone and a sapphire and a patch of Tektolnes' skin and you're good to go!  Cheers!

Mapping?  Forget about it.
Symbol:  Luir's
Go E:E:E:E:N:N:N:N:N:W:W:N:W:W:W:N:N:N:E:E:E:E:E:N:get coins belt:sit bar:buy bamberry:hold embossed:drink embossed

Crafting is a huge part of the word.  Yeah, it's spammed sometimes.  The Known is a huge part of the world, and, yeah, those of us who have seen a lot of it spam it sometimes.  Magick is a huge part of the world and yeah, it's spammed sometimes.  But give a brother/sister a chance to -explore-, dammit.  Same as with crafting, same as with mapping, same as with Rangering, same as with Bynning, same as with every other aspect of the game

Don't spoon feed us the highly classified details that we've been chasing for years!

Come on, man!

This is a direct "magick skill development is less important than other skill development, at least from an RP perspective" statement.  It goes along with other changes that have happened in the World.  And if that's the way things are going, I'll adapt.  But I'm not going to like it, particularly up front, particularly as I've only played a small handful of magickers.

I'm a big fan of staff doing the right thing and not soliciting player opinion ahead of time (mainly because we can't agree on shit-all as a player base) but magick has taken a shit kicking in the past few months.  Why is it the problem child that needs a good beating?

I'm scared that magick will go the way of kanks, sharp tribes, Under-Tuluk, rape (sorry, had to put it in), Hulm nobility....Tuluk and a host of other aspects of this game that players like me (who have eight years in, not quite ten, get back to you in 19 months) have not had the chance to experience.

Staff, change your minds on this one.

[RogueGunslinger]

There's no bloody advantage that repeat mages get that repeat other classes don't.

Repeat ranger players figure out herbal hotspots and hunting areas.

Repeat merchants figure out all the tough recipes and great shops.

Repeat warriors figure out stack timing and best weapon combos.

The problem here is that a lot of the fun isn't doing spells the dipshit random word assignment way, its in the actual figuring out of what the fucking symbols mean so you can look at the name and help file of a spell and go "Ohhhh... well it definitely isn't an inrof.  Lets try a wril.  Probably a wril."

Honestly I think this command should only be available to mages AFTER they figure out the spell words on their own.

This is a good argument, and to an extent I agree. But absolutely nothing is keeping you from continuing to roleplay that way.

[valeria]

But having to craft from scratch shouldn't have the same capability?  Craft armour/weapon/tool/component/rope/soap/it'sahugefuckinglist...shouldn't? 
Symbol: mastercraftwickedcoolbonesword
Oh, go forage a bit of bone and a sapphire and a patch of Tektolnes' skin and you're good to go!  Cheers!

Analyze basically does this.

Mapping?  Forget about it.
Symbol:  Luir's
Go E:E:E:E:N:N:N:N:N:W:W:N:W:W:W:N:N:N:E:E:E:E:E:N:get coins belt:sit bar:buy bamberry:hold embossed:drink embossed

And the combination of the "directions" command in the city and the availability of this map pretty much give you all the guidelines you need to traverse the known.



Ultimately, I don't think this is going to be a very big change.  It saves new players of mages a little bit of time (and I do mean a little, we're not talking thousands of hours of trial an error, here) and that's about it.

[Lizzie]

For my own personal use, I'm glad of the symbol command. For the game, I'm not so sure it's the best option.

For me, I'm great with Sudoku games. I turn the puzzle upside down (I'm left-handed, my brain thinks backward), and I can *see* the entire puzzle filled in correctly in my mind.

But give me a hangman game with a whole phrase, and I'll be stumped for an hour. Word puzzles are hard for me.

Until now, I would try maybe half a dozen possibilities for any new spell my PC learned. And if I couldn't figure it out with the obvious choices, I'd refer to "the list" for the actual answer. Sometimes the answer wasn't on "the list" and I'd be stumped for RL weeks. This, in fact, was why most of my mages never maxed out. Because they learned a brand new spell that *I* wasn't able to figure out and practice up to the highest strength.

With crafting, you don't have to craft one specific thing in order to branch the next crafting skill. You can craft any of dozens of items on your current list of stuff, and if you fail enough times you'll eventually branch. With magick, you must do things fairly precisely. You have ONE spell you have to practice, and "how" you practice it is limited if you're looking to branch the next spell on the list.

Similarly with combat - yes, if you want to branch "big stick" fighting, you must use a little stick, max out little stick, and it'll eventually branch out. But your options of what you must practice your little stick on, is limitless. You can practice it on anything that can codedly be used as a target. You can practice non-stop for an hour too, without having to stop to rest. If you're a mage, you have to stop when your mana runs out. That might be right away, it might be in 5 minutes, but when it runs out, you're DONE until you can get that mana back. Depending on where you are while you're waiting, it could take up to an hour to get it all back.

That's why I never understood the whining about spam-casting. It just isn't possible to spam-cast for any length of time, because every time you cast, you use up mana, and if you're out, you are not codedly capable of casting anything at all til you get it back.

So I'm good with the idea of symbol. It's one headache out of many that is eliminated, it's another hour, two hours, maybe even 24 RL hours of play time, that I'm not stuck in a temple or remote location, not interacting with anyone, because I just need to alt-tab to my spreadsheet and cross off each combination I try until I find one that works.

HOWEVER: I do NOT think it should be an option for "new mages." That is to say - players who are playing mages for the first couple of times. I think they should need to experience the "puzzling out" process, first. After their first or second mage character, the symbol command should be unlocked for their account. Then they can choose whether or not to use it.

[manonfire]

I... never really had a problem figuring out sphere and mood for spells. The designations are savvy enough that if you know what a spell does, you can kinda reason out the words for it.

I guess its inevitable, though. The game isn't attracting new players like it used to, and odds are most everyone who plays already knows the words or has a copy of the cheat sheet.

[Miradus]

There's no bloody advantage that repeat mages get that repeat other classes don't.

Repeat ranger players figure out herbal hotspots and hunting areas.

Repeat merchants figure out all the tough recipes and great shops.

Repeat warriors figure out stack timing and best weapon combos.

The problem here is that a lot of the fun isn't doing spells the dipshit random word assignment way, its in the actual figuring out of what the fucking symbols mean so you can look at the name and help file of a spell and go "Ohhhh... well it definitely isn't an inrof.  Lets try a wril.  Probably a wril."

Honestly I think this command should only be available to mages AFTER they figure out the spell words on their own.

Pretty much. I can't imagine that any ranger is going "This is a new character who wouldn't know that this road leads to Morin's so I'm not going to go down it."

I have only played the subguild mage thingies, but I had no trouble at all figuring out how to cast the spells once I figured out that you had to string words together. The helpfiles were pretty explanatory and you could easily guess which words might be tied to what sort of spell. I doubt I failed more than once or twice trying to get it right.

I don't know what stack timing is, but as someone trying to get the hang of warriors ... I want to.

[LauraMars]

I think this is a fantastic addition to the game.

[Norcal]

There's no bloody advantage that repeat mages get that repeat other classes don't.

Repeat ranger players figure out herbal hotspots and hunting areas.

Repeat merchants figure out all the tough recipes and great shops.

Repeat warriors figure out stack timing and best weapon combos.

The problem here is that a lot of the fun isn't doing spells the dipshit random word assignment way, its in the actual figuring out of what the fucking symbols mean so you can look at the name and help file of a spell and go "Ohhhh... well it definitely isn't an inrof.  Lets try a wril.  Probably a wril."

Honestly I think this command should only be available to mages AFTER they figure out the spell words on their own.

Ayup. All the best mages I have played around have done this, and taught my PC in this way. But how do you write that into code young master Malfaxis?  Folks just need to RP. Sad if they don't.

[WanderingOoze]

So you actually have to type :

>Cast *a bunch of words*
To do magic?

I always thought that the magicked skills worked like:

>Cast Lightning bolt.

And then the rest was like an automatic echo of

so-and-so says "highly juuun happily sumsuchnonesense"
A destructive Lightning bolt shoots from so-and-so's fingers and melts your face off

[Jihelu]

You do have to cast all the words.
This is so you can cast at different power levels.
Say you want to use mon lightning bolt at someone? Well, you put mon in your cast.
Say you want to cast it as wek to just fuck with people? Instead of mon you'd put wek.
Etc.

[Taven]

I think this is a fantastic addition to the game.

+1

[Rokal]

I think this is a fantastic addition to the game.

+1

+1

This allows people to spend more time RPing and less time figuring things out.

people can still chose to take the old route ,or RP with more experienced mages.

[Chettaman]

Back in my day, we knew the meaning of divan hekro.

xD
For real, though. This is a cool new command and I have no complaints against it.

[Lizzie]

I think this is a fantastic addition to the game.

+1

+1

This allows people to spend more time RPing and less time figuring things out.

people can still chose to take the old route ,or RP with more experienced mages.

New players might not understand the need or even develop an interest in taking the old route or "spending more time RPing" if the code does all the work for them.

[Malken]

I think this is a fantastic addition to the game.

+1

+1

This allows people to spend more time RPing and less time figuring things out.

people can still chose to take the old route ,or RP with more experienced mages.

New players might not understand the need or even develop an interest in taking the old route or "spending more time RPing" if the code does all the work for them.

New players usually don't start as mage either so it doesn't matter. By the time they get a chance to play a magicker, it means that they understand that this is a role-playing game and that they are expected to role-play accordingly (1st karma requirement)

[Iiyola]

I think this is a fantastic addition to the game.

[Molten Heart]

.

[Chettaman]

I think this is a fantastic addition to the game.

+1

+1

This allows people to spend more time RPing and less time figuring things out.

people can still chose to take the old route ,or RP with more experienced mages.

New players might not understand the need or even develop an interest in taking the old route or "spending more time RPing" if the code does all the work for them.

I see what you mean, Lizzie.
People will receive the words and not even know what they mean, but... in some cases, I guess that's the point?
And you're right. People might not even consider the vast ... secret stuff behind the words that are just given to them.
Just like a youtube video they'll fast forward through the stuff they don't care about and skip the commercials in between.

- but um. Yeah. This could be good too. People could be responsible enough to use this code. Especially after one and three karma.

[Lizzie]

I think this is a fantastic addition to the game.

+1

+1

This allows people to spend more time RPing and less time figuring things out.

people can still chose to take the old route ,or RP with more experienced mages.

New players might not understand the need or even develop an interest in taking the old route or "spending more time RPing" if the code does all the work for them.

New players usually don't start as mage either so it doesn't matter. By the time they get a chance to play a magicker, it means that they understand that this is a role-playing game and that they are expected to role-play accordingly (1st karma requirement)

They can play a magicker after their first character. Anyone can special app a rukkian or vivaduan, no karma required.

[Jihelu]

So does this mean sorcerers can symbol their shit as well?
I only ask because it said magickers and that generally includes the elementalists and not the evil/preservers

[Molten Heart]

.

[Raptor_Dan]

This is good, for newbies and veterans alike. Anyone can memorize their spells, and not understand the words.

Just like anyone can memorize the way to luir's (by being shown the first time) and not even understand the rooms and environment around them.

For those who say this takes away from mages understanding of the symbols, good. They can learn them, or not. The advantage is their to pick up if they are willing to do the work we always had to. I am glad this exists, because I was tired of having EVERY magicker have to go through the same routine of codedly trying all the different combinations, when with some of them, I wanted innate knowledge, others I wanted to learn from their v/npc friends, and others I wanted to learn through crazy, magickal means. This is just an RP time-saver for me, and very practical, because it gives more power over RP to the player, and relies less on code or staff.

Thank you. While I think it could be neat to have this 'shortcut' as I'm sure some see it, with crafting, I'm glad it's not put in. Not yet, at least, and hopefully it will not include all crafts, only common simple ones. That way, it's an RP time saver, but still gives an advantage to those who, once again, are willing to go through and do the work, and understand more fully the system they are utilizing.

[Lizzie]

Raptor_Dan, I agree that it's an awesome addition, for all the reasons you say. I also agree that people should be able to RP or not, understanding the words when they first get the spells.

What I disagree with, is that brand-new mages of players who've never played a mage before, not having to go through the trial/error experience at least that first time with that first mage character. I feel it is one of the things about Arm that attracts some players who like puzzling things out. If they show up and hear "oh the answers are right on page 3" they might feel "well then it's not a puzzle at all, is it, who cares, why bother." Not the character - the player.

We already have all the spheres and moods and hints to component information in the help files for mages. So it's not like they have to take wild guesses. The information is (mostly) right there for them. When you add the actual spell combination, you're removing that one aspect of attraction: the puzzle aspect. It makes puzzling things out less fun if you know the answers are just a command away. You know that you've already experienced the puzzling things out aspect, so for the next mage, it's not as much of a puzzle. That's when I feel the command should be available. After the first mage for each character has been stored/PK'ed/spidered.

Being able to "symbol" a spell should be an OOC player unlock bonus, not a given from the get-go.

[boog]

So, it's okay for vets, but not for newbies who get their first karma to experience it?

Just because we had to experience the pain of guesswork doesn't mean future players should, too.

[Chettaman]

I had to make a scholar-like witch to really "understand" how magick works.
I know not everyone is going to make a scholar-like witch.

"understanding" this magick thing is deeper than most may care to imagine. I would suggest reading Eragon for a tickling of knowledge.

but before I made this scholar-like witch I made I dunno... maybe two or three witches before hand that were just using magick like, "I don't care how it works, I just know it works. Ain't nobody got time to be no self aware."

And you know... That's alright.

[Lizzie]

So, it's okay for vets, but not for newbies who get their first karma to experience it?

Just because we had to experience the pain of guesswork doesn't mean future players should, too.

No, I'm not saying that. I'm saying exactly what I said (why does everyone have such a hard time understanding what I post?):

FIRST MAGICK CHARACTER ON ACCOUNT: no "symbol."
If that magick character lasts 2 weeks, that doesn't make the player a vet.
If that magick character is the player's 2nd character ever, and he got it with a special app, that doesn't make him a vet.

You don't have to be a vet in order to have a first magick character. This isn't rocket science, jeez.

[bardlyone]

So, it's okay for vets, but not for newbies who get their first karma to experience it?

Just because we had to experience the pain of guesswork doesn't mean future players should, too.

No, I'm not saying that. I'm saying exactly what I said (why does everyone have such a hard time understanding what I post?):

FIRST MAGICK CHARACTER ON ACCOUNT: no "symbol."
If that magick character lasts 2 weeks, that doesn't make the player a vet.
If that magick character is the player's 2nd character ever, and he got it with a special app, that doesn't make him a vet.

You don't have to be a vet in order to have a first magick character. This isn't rocket science, jeez.

But why make the single most useful tool for playing a guild unavailable to someone who not only has never played it, but also is often using a special app (which are in limited supply for a year) to play, greatly reducing their likelihood of surviving any encounter? That feels needlessly cruel and biased. I get it if you like solving puzzles. Not everyone does. I don't. I'm curious why you think everyone should have to play their first magicker in the way that you like playing magickers, and not be afforded the tools to be able to be as competent or knowledgeable in game. ESPECIALLY when there is a massive list floating around that has all the spell words on it anyhow, and with your FIRST magicker is when you're most likely to want or need that list. ESPECIALLY if (like me), you are not playing this game for some random guesswork puzzle solving to be able to make your guild work the way everyone else's does.

[Miradus]

To add to the above diatribe (which I agree with), it is a KNOWN THING that people "cheat" by sharing info.

So it's an imposed penalty only on those who are willing to follow your arbitrary rules.

I like any command that removes that artificial difficulty.

If a warrior had to guess a string of commands in order to successfully bash something then you'd hear no end of the bitching.

[Lizzie]

So, it's okay for vets, but not for newbies who get their first karma to experience it?

Just because we had to experience the pain of guesswork doesn't mean future players should, too.

No, I'm not saying that. I'm saying exactly what I said (why does everyone have such a hard time understanding what I post?):

FIRST MAGICK CHARACTER ON ACCOUNT: no "symbol."
If that magick character lasts 2 weeks, that doesn't make the player a vet.
If that magick character is the player's 2nd character ever, and he got it with a special app, that doesn't make him a vet.

You don't have to be a vet in order to have a first magick character. This isn't rocket science, jeez.

But why make the single most useful tool for playing a guild unavailable to someone who not only has never played it, but also is often using a special app (which are in limited supply for a year) to play, greatly reducing their likelihood of surviving any encounter? That feels needlessly cruel and biased. I get it if you like solving puzzles. Not everyone does. I don't. I'm curious why you think everyone should have to play their first magicker in the way that you like playing magickers, and not be afforded the tools to be able to be as competent or knowledgeable in game. ESPECIALLY when there is a massive list floating around that has all the spell words on it anyhow, and with your FIRST magicker is when you're most likely to want or need that list. ESPECIALLY if (like me), you are not playing this game for some random guesswork puzzle solving to be able to make your guild work the way everyone else's does.

No one is MAKING a tool unavailable. It has NEVER been available, to ANYONE, until recently. People managed to play mages all this time - some with a list (that has NEVER been complete in the first place and still isn't), and some without the list. What is it about the current batch of new players that you feel makes them less capable of figuring stuff out, or more demanding of the answers, that we have to dumb down the game mechanics?

[bardlyone]

Dumb down mechanics?

I'm not suggesting that.

I'm suggesting we don't arbitrarily keep people from using a tool available to everyone else playing a guild, as an arbitrary penalty because it's their first time playing a guild because YOU the minority think it would be more fun that way, with no regard for the fact that others feel differently.

Don't put that off on me, or put words about new players in my mouth.

You're the one suggesting that something that was implemented across the board not be available to the group that would singularly find the most use in it. I'm saying maybe you should take your own advice when it comes to playing what is and not complaining about what isn't. It might be new, but it's still what is.

And if you think that list is incomplete, then you have never had the list. It's so complete that it had words for spells on it that no playable class even got. And it's still out there floating around, somewhere.

[bardlyone]

Not trying to be snappish or standoffish, it just raises my hackles when it feels like someone's implying I mean or am saying something which is not at all what I mean or am saying.

[Lizzie]

I'm not suggesting that either. I'm suggesting that instead of revealing something to everyone - make it a bonus to those who've taken a little time working on it. Sort of like karma. Instead of just letting everyone roll up what they'd like, give certain options points, that players have to actually earn. And similarly - instead of just letting everyone mastercraft anything they want, just because they have that skill on their list, make the character have to actually master the skill before allowing the *player* to submit a mastercraft recipe to the staff for implementation.

Not sure why some of you are having such a hard time understanding this concept of earning features rather than just having them handed to them, when the game has had this concept implemented in so many other aspects for a couple of decades.

[Lizzie]

Not trying to be snappish or standoffish, it just raises my hackles when it feels like someone's implying I mean or am saying something which is not at all what I mean or am saying.

But it's okay for people to dogpile on me and respond to things I didn't say with implications that I meant otherwise, right? Yeah. Got it.

[Rathustra]

I'd rather we introduce new mechanics that reward accumulation of game lore and thematic understanding instead of commodifying a set of semi-arbitrary words to benefit a rather shallow path of 'discovery', or, in undesirable cases, rewarding OOC exchange of information or brute-force solving and recording of keywords.

In the end also, the theme around words of power didn't really mesh with the documentation around elementalists as people inherently connected to their element and discovering their power through an intuitive understanding. It'd be preferable if we could find ways to make the journey of discovery for elementalists fit with this and be distinct from that experienced by sorcerers.

[Lizzie]

I'd rather we introduce new mechanics that reward accumulation of game lore and thematic understanding instead of commodifying a set of semi-arbitrary words to benefit a rather shallow path of 'discovery', or, in undesirable cases, rewarding OOC exchange of information or brute-force solving and recording of keywords.

In the end also, the theme around words of power didn't really mesh with the documentation around elementalists as people inherently connected to their element and discovering their power through an intuitive understanding. It'd be preferable if we could find ways to make the journey of discovery for elementalists fit with this and be distinct from that experienced by sorcerers.

I'd love to see that. I mean really really seriously love it.

[Clavis]

I've had several elementalists, that never really got very far at all with the whole word finding thing. most of my rp was seeking to solve that riddle. to try and learn what this word means, or which ones to string together.

I still haven't played a magicker since then cause as much as I love puzzle solving, being unable to do what my pc was intended to do sucked. Was few gemmed around, though was npc's teachers that taught nothing, and for the most part overall, the experiences turned me off to foul 'gickers.

I dont' feel that I am alone in this experience, though some love the struggle, the excitement of puzzling it all out. Do I like this new symbol command yes. Why do I like it cause it's easy street, quick and simple no.

I like it cause if I can't figure out the words after a while, I don't have to struggle and strain and beat my head bloody against a wall. I can turn to an npc gicker, and rp with them, then use the symbol command.

to sum it up those that like puzzles that are drawn to it will be those most likely to do something similair. those that don't like beating their heads against the wall will use it, to fast tract themselves.
It's much the same for all our rp'ers, those that set and toss out emotes when crafting, or when teaching someone to bandage will do that. those that just spam craft will continue to spam craft.

We do what is in are nature to do, we like what we like, and do what we want, and what's in our nature. I am glad that staff implemented this to fit everyone, we know it's there, it's great to ease frustration. Some will use it, some won't. Some will grow by leaps and bounds others, will play for rl weeks, months and struggle to learn how to do that one thing, while his/her fellah new  made gicker blazes past them. (recommends killiing that one, how dare they learn faster, and with less of a struggle)

[Chettaman]

I'd rather we introduce new mechanics that reward accumulation of game lore and thematic understanding instead of commodifying a set of semi-arbitrary words to benefit a rather shallow path of 'discovery', or, in undesirable cases, rewarding OOC exchange of information or brute-force solving and recording of keywords.

In the end also, the theme around words of power didn't really mesh with the documentation around elementalists as people inherently connected to their element and discovering their power through an intuitive understanding. It'd be preferable if we could find ways to make the journey of discovery for elementalists fit with this and be distinct from that experienced by sorcerers.

We could... also make people "feel" certain ways during casting certain spells?
Maybe new "side-effects" or something that fit in with this lore of magick.

self-discovery and exploring the nature of the world, I wanna say, isn't as easy as using the think command, but... it really helps.
I'm also being ironic when I use the term "think command". Everything makes sense if you pretend you're a fairy.