Too Static World Setting

[dravage]

There are some lesser steps that could be taken to help fix some of the staticky elements of the game. For example the removal and replacement of many of Allanak's fossil NPCs. Removing as little as ten wandering NPCs and replacing them with new ones would change the overall backdrop immensely, I feel. Just walking around the city would make it feel refreshed and like the constantly changing beast a major civilization should be. It would have less of that 1994 feel, to me. Another senate meeting would surely generate some excitement as well, particularly if it included realistic proposals for minor changes in the city (this House wants to rename Caravan Road, that House wants to ban the possession of crossbows without a permit, etc).

I think these are fantastic ideas and would certainly help keep things fresh, while not turning the game on its head.

[Barsook]

I think that having the virtual world be more active allows PCs to react and plot better to it. Some external change in the world can motivate a lot more PC interaction, be strife or cooperation. I don't things need to be constantly changing, but having a specific event or change happen that players can react to is good.

That said, I think this sometimes does happen and gets ignored by PCs.

I think this is one root cause to the problem.  But isn't the focus right now on the Tablelands not the Driath?

But, if Allanak is in the Driath (which I forget), we could do this:

There are some lesser steps that could be taken to help fix some of the staticky elements of the game. For example the removal and replacement of many of Allanak's fossil NPCs. Removing as little as ten wandering NPCs and replacing them with new ones would change the overall backdrop immensely, I feel. Just walking around the city would make it feel refreshed and like the constantly changing beast a major civilization should be. It would have less of that 1994 feel, to me. Another senate meeting would surely generate some excitement as well, particularly if it included realistic proposals for minor changes in the city (this House wants to rename Caravan Road, that House wants to ban the possession of crossbows without a permit, etc).

I think these are fantastic ideas and would certainly help keep things fresh, while not turning the game on its head.

And I agree, I think we need to freshen up Allanak and other places.  Perhaps, have more regular senate meetings where Merchant Houses' PCs do interact with the Nobles' PC to make new laws and see them enforced.  (Or Noble to Noble interaction also)

[AdamBlue]

I think the game was performing much better when two 'major' cities were open to play.
However.
I  do not think Tuluk should be reopened, as there are very significant plot reasons as to why that should not be.
Instead, a closer foe should be re-awakened. A beast, long-hidden, should be revealed. Not a mere creature, or a mere monster struck down by the burdening bash of a brute, but must be toppled by legions backed by politicians lead by kings.
#STEINAL2016

[Xalle]

But isn't the focus right now on the Tablelands not the Driath?

Nope. Only Indie staff (Akariel, newly returned Enthemu and myself) are focused on the Tablelands, as well as the other clans, unclanned and things that fall into our 'sphere'.

Making the virtual world less static while keeping it balanced is definitely something we're interested in and try to do (time permitting), and we're also finding/creating a load of new ways to do things codewise. There are a few projects nearly ready to roll out that I'm hoping will bring some more flavour and dynamism to the gameworld, but there will always be something else after them!  

[Beethoven]

I just sent in a request asking approval for something that would change the gameworld, albeit not in a super dramatic way. I wasn't told anything prohibitive or discouraging at all. I was just told to stay within some (very basic) guidelines about being true to the game world, and then go for it!

[Lizzie]

Re: removal/change of fossil NPCs: on a slight variation.

If we could even get the plethora of half-giant soldiers to stop clustering together every time a rat decides to fight back - that'd go a long way toward shifting the perception of stasis.

8 half-giant soldiers all standing on the street - then 2 rooms away, 8 more half-giant soldiers standing there. There's nothing "going on" that requires them to all be clustered like that. How about Tektolnes decides to go bowling one day and throw a few spares, pretty please?

[Reiloth]

I think the game was performing much better when two 'major' cities were open to play.
However.
I  do not think Tuluk should be reopened, as there are very significant plot reasons as to why that should not be.
Instead, a closer foe should be re-awakened. A beast, long-hidden, should be revealed. Not a mere creature, or a mere monster struck down by the burdening bash of a brute, but must be toppled by legions backed by politicians lead by kings.
#STEINAL2016

I dunno, when Staff decided to go with an IC series of events as to why Tuluk closed, rather than OOC, it seemed to be under the auspices of being able to come back from the decision and not necessarily make it permanent.

I'd personally be playing more if I could play in Tuluk. However I completely understand why Tuluk closed, and why spreading the playerbase thinner and Staffbase thinner does harm to the game.

I just don't enjoy playing in Allanak as much as I enjoyed playing in Tuluk, however, there is always the Labyrinth, and there is always 'Just suck it up and play anyways', which has been my mentality of late.

I'd personally enjoy seeing Tuluk re-open, just completely fucked. I'd be fine with seeing no Noble Houses survive the conflict, the Templarate withdraw and become the bogeyman, and the city become a disoriented wasteland of fiefdoms and commerce. It'd be neat to see it organically grow up from destruction, rather than be inorganically grown in a hydroponics farm.

[lostinspace]

I think the game was performing much better when two 'major' cities were open to play.
However.
I  do not think Tuluk should be reopened, as there are very significant plot reasons as to why that should not be.
Instead, a closer foe should be re-awakened. A beast, long-hidden, should be revealed. Not a mere creature, or a mere monster struck down by the burdening bash of a brute, but must be toppled by legions backed by politicians lead by kings.
#STEINAL2016

I dunno, when Staff decided to go with an IC series of events as to why Tuluk closed, rather than OOC, it seemed to be under the auspices of being able to come back from the decision and not necessarily make it permanent.

I'd personally be playing more if I could play in Tuluk. However I completely understand why Tuluk closed, and why spreading the playerbase thinner and Staffbase thinner does harm to the game.

I just don't enjoy playing in Allanak as much as I enjoyed playing in Tuluk, however, there is always the Labyrinth, and there is always 'Just suck it up and play anyways', which has been my mentality of late.

I'd personally enjoy seeing Tuluk re-open, just completely fucked. I'd be fine with seeing no Noble Houses survive the conflict, the Templarate withdraw and become the bogeyman, and the city become a disoriented wasteland of fiefdoms and commerce. It'd be neat to see it organically grow up from destruction, rather than be inorganically grown in a hydroponics farm.

Yes! A lawless city of ruins, cracking streets and weakened walls. A city of anarchy, where it doesn't matter who you are, and the only rule is that of the most fit.

[TheWanderer]

A bigger Labyrinth, then.

[Norcal]

I think the game was performing much better when two 'major' cities were open to play.
However.
I  do not think Tuluk should be reopened, as there are very significant plot reasons as to why that should not be.
Instead, a closer foe should be re-awakened. A beast, long-hidden, should be revealed. Not a mere creature, or a mere monster struck down by the burdening bash of a brute, but must be toppled by legions backed by politicians lead by kings.
#STEINAL2016

I dunno, when Staff decided to go with an IC series of events as to why Tuluk closed, rather than OOC, it seemed to be under the auspices of being able to come back from the decision and not necessarily make it permanent.

I'd personally be playing more if I could play in Tuluk. However I completely understand why Tuluk closed, and why spreading the playerbase thinner and Staffbase thinner does harm to the game.

I just don't enjoy playing in Allanak as much as I enjoyed playing in Tuluk, however, there is always the Labyrinth, and there is always 'Just suck it up and play anyways', which has been my mentality of late.

I'd personally enjoy seeing Tuluk re-open, just completely fucked. I'd be fine with seeing no Noble Houses survive the conflict, the Templarate withdraw and become the bogeyman, and the city become a disoriented wasteland of fiefdoms and commerce. It'd be neat to see it organically grow up from destruction, rather than be inorganically grown in a hydroponics farm.

Yes! A lawless city of ruins, cracking streets and weakened walls. A city of anarchy, where it doesn't matter who you are, and the only rule is that of the most fit.

Not sure who would really want to live there, from a VNPC standpoint. If there is no safety and everyone is prey all the time, then people would go live elsewhere. And if no non- stealth assassin thief type PCs want to live there because they will get ganked out of chargen, I suppose the stealthy assassin thief types will not have much fun either.

What would be better is a city in districts each of which is  run and policed by a different GMH, with another district or two left for PCs to dominate through player run plots.

[Patuk]

And as we all know, people love playing in the Labyrinth, of which the population positively dwarfs Allanak proper's.

[RogueGunslinger]

I would actually- and I can't believe I'm saying this- I would actually be okay with opening Tuluk and closing down Allanak. And just rotating that shit back and forth every 6 months.

[Yam]

I would actually- and I can't believe I'm saying this- I would actually be okay with opening Tuluk and closing down Allanak. And just rotating that shit back and forth every 6 months.

You take that back

[lostinspace]

Not sure who would really want to live there, from a VNPC standpoint. If there is no safety and everyone is prey all the time, then people would go live elsewhere. And if no non- stealth assassin thief type PCs want to live there because they will get ganked out of chargen, I suppose the stealthy assassin thief types will not have much fun either.

What would be better is a city in districts each of which is  run and policed by a different GMH, with another district or two left for PCs to dominate through player run plots.

Replace GMH with crime syndicate, raider encampments, literally anything other than GMH and you have my attention, otherwise I feel it's just going to end up as more different Luir's, and I pretty much hate Luir's.

[Barsook]

I would actually- and I can't believe I'm saying this- I would actually be okay with opening Tuluk and closing down Allanak. And just rotating that shit back and forth every 6 months.

I agree but that would too much work for everyone.

Not sure who would really want to live there, from a VNPC standpoint. If there is no safety and everyone is prey all the time, then people would go live elsewhere. And if no non- stealth assassin thief type PCs want to live there because they will get ganked out of chargen, I suppose the stealthy assassin thief types will not have much fun either.

What would be better is a city in districts each of which is  run and policed by a different GMH, with another district or two left for PCs to dominate through player run plots.

Replace GMH with crime syndicate, raider encampments, literally anything other than GMH and you have my attention, otherwise I feel it's just going to end up as more different Luir's, and I pretty much hate Luir's.

+1, maybe we do need a new settlement for this.

[Chettaman]

A bigger Labyrinth, then.

This is a great idea. Make the labyrinth more of a place for common folk.
Hm... or is it just people end up finding ways to keep themselves out of the 'rinth.
Maybe like /really/ dangerous apartments where no one cares. It might even be free space without keys. (this is crazy, I know)

encourage people to join this world or... I dunno. I've never actually played extensively in the rinth yet. I have no experience or suggestions to give.

[Barsook]

Maybe like /really/ dangerous apartments where no one cares. It might even be free space without keys. (this is crazy, I know)

Didn't Tuluk have this in the Warrens, but with locked doors but access to other rooms?  But still, nice idea.

Edit: Grammar

[nauta]

Maybe like /really/ dangerous apartments where no one cares. It might even be free space without keys. (this is crazy, I know)

Did Tuluk have this in the Warrens, but with locked doors but access to other rooms?  But still, nice idea.

I think the rinth should have some 'save' rooms with minimal storage space (no couches, please!) and no doors or locks.

There used to be one save room in the rinth, sort of tucked back in the corner, but completely accessible to anyone.  I used it to store coins and baking goods, and eventually the gang used it to store stuff they'd stolen.  But anyone could've taken from it, and, in fact, once someone did, and we went out and beat the shit out of them.

I was sad to see that the save room had been removed.

[TheWanderer]

No, no. I was just pointing out that we basically already have a lawless city IG. I don't really like the idea of making it bigger because it's a waste of staff resources.

The reason people don't naturally gravitate to the Labyrinth is because it's a tremendously risky place to play. While it's certainly brutal and sufficiently grim, it doesn't give characters a lot of room to breathe. I mean, three people tried to backstab my first character within the first few days, and it devolves into a game of hide and sneak to safety. It takes the right group of players to make it an enjoyable experience (though this could be said for anything) and you're constantly worried they'll fall victim to some random guy training his skills.

I like the concept of a lawless city, but it's not sensible for a number of reasons and when the initial luster wears off, people will go to safer pastures.

My idea of evolving the world is the implementation of simple consequences. For example, it's been about a RL year since the Exalted Lord debacle and I've noticed no discernible changes to the way of life or Allanak as a whole since. After this huge event, it feels like the same exact city I've been playing in since day one. That's why the game feels so static to some.

If we throw another HRPT, it should make a splash and continue rippling. You need long-term plans, not short bursts of excitement that dissipate into nothingness.

[TheWanderer]

Don't just change the geography. Organically change how the game is played.

[Barsook]

Don't just change the geography. Organically change how the game is played.

I think that is what the players and staff is trying to do, but I just don't feel it.  Hence why I brought this topic.  Maybe I just don't notice it.

or maybe it's this:

If we throw another HRPT, it should make a splash and continue rippling. You need long-term plans, not short bursts of excitement that dissipate into nothingness.

Which I did point out that the ripple died with the last one, at least in Tuluk.

[Miradus]

I found the rinth to be incredibly boring to play in. Except on the rare times when it wasn't incredibly boring and it was incredibly risky. And that would last for maybe an hour and then go back to being incredibly boring.

It's about 30 rooms or so and then you are supposed to pick HALF of that to limit your activities to. Your gameworld is scaled down to about 15 rooms and a tavern unless you break protocol and go hang out elsewhere, which you're pretty much forced to do if you don't want to die of boredom.

It's way more interesting to play a character FROM the 'rinth as opposed to playing one IN the 'rinth.

[Barsook]

Mods, can we have a split, one topic for the Rinth.  I think we have derailed the topic.

[Molten Heart]

.

[Clavis]

i've always thought it's been to static, back the first time I played waaay back when I was a teen it felt more alive.
Not through staff but the players themselves, the way they added to it. You didn't have a lot of people hiding out in compounds, making things all day, you had people grabbing everyone to go out and explore. You had them getting into trouble, you had mean people that where showing you how much they disliked your sharp ears, or your partially sharp ears. You had raiders more then willing tor raid people, and then vanish for a little while as raiders do. Then you had staff coming along to really mess you up, and make you run for your lives.

Nowadays it just seems like for the most part you here about house x from the ig boards, because they seem to all be hiding away, training, training, training, and when a raider does sprout up, (pc raider, not the other kinds) Usually they end up being hunted and killed swiftly, which leads to noone wanting to play raiders, or lapses of time where an indie raider is training up skills to be able to raid people. So far my fav pc wasn't even one my toon liked, but a sharp ear raider, that was always causing trouble in one way or another.

and yes there are things going on, alooot of things ig that most people don't even see, know about, because they are hiding themselves away. or maybe it just seems that way to me. *goes back to hiding*