Does the GDB need an outlet for off-topic comments?

[Large Hero]

lol cesspool of villainy? Really? At worst the RAT would get an occasional vague butthurt post that, if it garnered any attention at all, was as like to be people refuting the point as supporting it. Even the episode that got it locked was someone being down on a clan, and then being called out on how wrong they were.

I'd argue that a forum containing a bunch of threads about why X sucks is probably more unwelcoming.

I'm pretty sure what got it locked was obvious flame posts that were moderated out, not vague jabs or whatever

[BadSkeelz]

Oh, right. Still, that was a pretty weak flame all things considered (though it got the appropriate punishment).

[Majikal]

Re-title this thread to: Does the game need the Random Armageddon Thoughts thread reopened?

I personally enjoyed random armagedddon thoughts, I could always click on it and usually see some new posts or type something up myself.

Is my life affected by RAT being locked? No. Is my enjoyment of the game affected by it being closed? No. Would I be sad if the entire gdb exploded and there was no place for anyone to post outside of clan boards/announcement threads/ask the staff. Nope. It would probably INCREASE my enjoyment of the game actually.

[Drayab]

Man, you guys must think I'm a real stiff, huh?  

I thought comparing RAT to /b/ was an obvious internet joke, but just goes to show how much gets lost in text.

[Armaddict]

I dunno what /b/ is.

[SuchDragonWow]

I thought comparing RAT to /b/ was an obvious internet joke, but just goes to show how much gets lost in text.

Why are you joking on the GDB, dude?   

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5XRGrpiBjY

[Vwest]

We could just commandeer this thread for the purposes of RAT-like shitposting.

It's already going in that direction, really.

[Drayab]

Seriously. I apologize for my Ned Flanders-esque yet /b/ inspired joke that only made sense in my head.

[SuchDragonWow]

Seriously. I apologize for my Ned Flanders-esque yet /b/ inspired joke that only made sense in my head.

I can see you took my comments about your presumptuous post as a personal attack.  I assure you, I was addressing the assertions in your post, not your character as a person, to which I have no basis (or desire) to judge.

Edit for incorrect word usage.

[manonfire]

I can't tell if my utter apathy for maintaining "standards" vis-a-vis hyperactive thread-locking is a symptom of immaturity or the opposite.

I mean, what's the end-game for internet butthurt and passive-aggressive bullshit? Does it culminate in an apotheosis of hurt feelings, dogs and cats living together, and mass hysteria?

Or does it just.. fizzle out?

[Drayab]

Well, let's go back to where we left off, ignoring my bad joke.

1) All new players are uptight stiffs with a stuffy attitude towards conversation.  I think even Ned Flanders has more flexibility in communication than the presumed "new player" model of someone who would quit a game over a few internet jabs.

I don't know what to say to this other than we may have to just agree to disagree. People have different preferences as far as the type of online communities they want to be a part of, and I really can only speak for myself, but I feel very strongly about treating people that I don't know very well with the utmost politeness. When I don't get that from others, yes, I feel like it is rude. I guess it is just how I was raised. You guys can call me thin-skinned if you want to, and I will think you are rude for it? To me, it just seems like life is so much easier if people can just be polite and treat each other with respect.

I can't tell if my utter apathy for maintaining "standards" vis-a-vis hyperactive thread-locking is a symptom of immaturity or the opposite.

I mean, what's the end-game for internet butthurt and passive-aggressive bullshit? Does it culminate in an apotheosis of hurt feelings, dogs and cats living together, and mass hysteria?

Or does it just.. fizzle out?

Well, for people who don't feel like they fit in, they just go somewhere else. People want to be part of internet communities that hold to whatever standards they are comfortable with. Is this news to anybody? It's just human nature. It happens with the kinds of friends we have, it happens with the kind of workplace we're willing to put up with. Nobody wants to complicate their life with unnecessary bullshit.

[SuchDragonWow]

Well, let's go back to where we left off, ignoring my bad joke.

1) All new players are uptight stiffs with a stuffy attitude towards conversation.  I think even Ned Flanders has more flexibility in communication than the presumed "new player" model of someone who would quit a game over a few internet jabs.

I don't know what to say to this other than we may have to just agree to disagree. People have different preferences as far as the type of online communities they want to be a part of, and I really can only speak for myself, but I feel very strongly about treating people that I don't know very well with the utmost politeness. When I don't get that from others, yes, I feel like it is rude. I guess it is just how I was raised. You guys can call me thin-skinned if you want to, and I will think you are rude for it? To me, it just seems like life is so much easier if people can just be polite and treat each other with respect.

Regardless of your personal feelings on this subject, you're presuming that every new player (or even an influential portion of them) would be so offended by the RAT that they couldn't play the game.  I can't fathom this being true.  "Well, some guy didn't like another guy's opinion, and he gave him a rude response.  Better not play this game!"  I mean ...  Heh.

Yet, you're a Helper.  By all rights, I should trust that you have sound opinions about our new players because of your experiences with them.  Interesting, to say the least.

[Drayab]

You're overstating the kind of things I think would turn people away. I browsed RAT on rare occasions and yes, it was just fine. RAT was kept at an acceptable level because it was being constantly moderated. I don't know what was being moderated out; I can only wonder. It was apparently generating several complaints a day and become too burdensome to maintain that appearance of civility.

[SuchDragonWow]

Let me give you an example of what kinds of posts got moderated.  One time I was goofing off with Malken, and he said something or other, but in a jokingly childish manner, so I returned with "You're stupid.   "  That post got moderated, even though, in my opinion, it was obvious I was joking around with him.

Maybe it would've been better if I'd say "You're a stupidhead!"

[Asmoth]

I think Helpers sometimes get overzealous in the moderating of posts.  Almost like they fear that if you were serious with your stupid comment and it turned into a flaming exchange that they would be looked at funny for not ending it before it started.

I've been moderated for "baiting" which is basically just a catch all for saying "Anything that could potentially, even to the smallest degree, turn into an argument."

My whole issue with the moderation thing, is that people get moderated for doing the same thing that others do wily nily.  But this is a group of volunteers, a group of very vocal volunteers and they form cliques of players that make it okay for the goose but not the gander.

Should there be an outlet, yes, but all that will happen is eventually, someone will freak out like whatever helper closed the last one, and then we will have this conversation again in a few months.

[Vwest]

It was apparently generating several complaints a day and become too burdensome to maintain that appearance of civility.

That is all it is, too.

The appearance of civility.

[Drayab]

Let me give you an example of what kinds of posts got moderated.  One time I was goofing off with Malken, and he said something or other, but in a jokingly childish manner, so I returned with "You're stupid.   "  That post got moderated, even though, in my opinion, it was obvious I was joking around with him.

Maybe it would've been better if I'd say "You're a stupidhead!"

The smiley does help. From what you just told me, yeah, sounds fine to me, but I wasn't there and don't know if there is more to the story, so I'm reticent to support one side or the other. For example, maybe you got wrapped up in a whole pack of moderated posts? I don't know about your specific situation. But I do support the principle of keeping a moderated forum.

(I don't have moderating privileges)

[BadSkeelz]

I like gurth.

[Malken]

I've only posted once since the RAT got locked, the GDB is so dull now.

Not sure if it's a pro of keeping it random-free, since it also keeps it Malken-free  

And to me, it's the GDB/community that makes me want to play again. If the GDB is dull, my desire to play Arm again is null since I just assume that the game is in a dull period.

[SuchDragonWow]

Well, the skinny of the situation is this:  The staff hired moderators to lighten their workload, and those moderators have shown a willingness to interpret the (vaguely defined) GDB rules in their own fashion.  Their rationale for doing so?   "It was creating too much work for us."  Child, please.

If the answer is to sacrifice the quality of a product for the ease of its distribution, maybe we need to have more moderators.  I'm positive beyond the shadow of a doubt that a responsible forum moderator can be sussed out to dedicate themselves to moderating a thread like RAT.

[Armaddict]

You guys can call me thin-skinned if you want to, and I will think you are rude for it?

To clarify, I wasn't saying that anyone is particularly thin-skinned, just that the moderation under the pretense that everyone was thin-skinned was what was leading to the overmoderation and constant 'need' to moderate.  There may be a few thin-skinned people who were reporting left and right, or feeling it was their duty, but I think we are, even in heated debates, a pretty remarkably civil online community.  The -idea- that we were all too thin-skinned to deal with points that may have been worded poorly in our direction was more problematic to most people than our actual posts were.

If we want to be able to have free discussion, we have get used to the idea that people are going to say things we don't necessarily like at all, sometimes.

[Delirium]

To be clear, it wasn't a player-moderator decision to close the RAT down, nor were we involved in it at all, it was a staff decision.

From a player/GDBer standpoint I was initially annoyed, but honestly I don't really care either way now.

Other mods have made the point that RAT took up most of their attention, though I posit that we're moderating the same amount, just in different threads now.

So let's not start leaping to conclusions here.

[Drayab]

Well, the skinny of the situation is this:  The staff hired moderators to lighten their workload, and those moderators have shown a willingness to interpret the (vaguely defined) GDB rules in their own fashion.  Their rationale for doing so?   "It was creating too much work for us."  Child, please.

If the answer is to sacrifice the quality of a product for the ease of its distribution, maybe we need to have more moderators.  I'm positive beyond the shadow of a doubt that a responsible forum moderator can be sussed out to dedicate themselves to moderating a thread like RAT.

Hire more moderators so we can have a RAT thread? I'd support that.

You guys can call me thin-skinned if you want to, and I will think you are rude for it?

To clarify, I wasn't saying that anyone is particularly thin-skinned, just that the moderation under the pretense that everyone was thin-skinned was what was leading to the overmoderation and constant 'need' to moderate.  There may be a few thin-skinned people who were reporting left and right, or feeling it was their duty, but I think we are, even in heated debates, a pretty remarkably civil online community.  The -idea- that we were all too thin-skinned to deal with points that may have been worded poorly in our direction was more problematic to most people than our actual posts were.

If we want to be able to have free discussion, we have get used to the idea that people are going to say things we don't necessarily like at all, sometimes.

To an extent, I'm inclined to agree! I enjoy lively debate. I think criticism is good and integral to vetting ideas, but I prefer my criticism with a side-order of respect. I have zero interest in a conversation that devolves into name calling and the like. That's the kind of stuff that needs to be moderated to maintain a welcoming environment.

[SuchDragonWow]

Fair enough, Delirium.  I'm personally inclined to trust your opinion on a topic such as this, so I'll bear your comments in mind.

However, I think we either:

1)  Need an outlet for off-topic remarks that will occur in healthy, fun interactions.

or

2)  Need to chill out on the moderation front.

Barring some outstanding opinion to come, I think I've said all I want to say.

[Tuannon]

Frankly, the talk about Tuluk's current goings on and closure irritated me on TS3 earlier. But generally TS3 is a better forum for shit posting that the GDB, in my opinion.