Missing Persons

[Desertman]

Do not want.

[Asmoth]

I agree on the whole storage side of it.

I can see how PK'd people would be a downer to know that they were dead.

But if someone voluntarily stores, that would be good to know.

So that you wouldn't be looking for Noble X or Templar Z to find out they have been stored.

[Armaddict]

I agree on the whole storage side of it.

I can see how PK'd people would be a downer to know that they were dead.

But if someone voluntarily stores, that would be good to know.

So that you wouldn't be looking for Noble X or Templar Z to find out they have been stored.

Conversely, there could also be a required field in the storage request that stipulates people who should know of the storage.

[ChibiTama]

What if there was an allotted amount of time before it would show someone as dead? Then, we wouldn't know immediately and we would still have that dread.

[Jihelu]

Clan boards usually post when someone retires, atleast certain people.
If that is the case for all clans well.
Just ask someone in the clan.
If they aren't clanned.
Well fuk idk

[Asmoth]

I agree on the whole storage side of it.

I can see how PK'd people would be a downer to know that they were dead.

But if someone voluntarily stores, that would be good to know.

So that you wouldn't be looking for Noble X or Templar Z to find out they have been stored.

Conversely, there could also be a required field in the storage request that stipulates people who should know of the storage.

Fucking Genius!

Yeah, If I'm Lord Templar Asmothpants and I get bored of being a templar, because really how many people can you throw into the pit before your bored, or how many people can you cuddle?

I could then do a storage request and say:

Tell Captain Sassypants of the AoD that I'm gone, and he will report to another Templar.

Tell TressyTressy that sugardick Asmoth said it was fun, and it wasn't you, it was me...

etc

[Zoan]

I've inherited a LOT of power because a whole bunch of people all of a sudden went off the radar. It's fun to fill the void, especially if said persons come back to find you've usurped them in their absence.

The show must go on.

[IAmJacksOpinion]

The way has always been a little problematic. If I try to way someone and they're not around I think "they're not around" or "they must be sleeping" and these are understood to mean "they're logged off", even though the way has no range, and can be used to contact sleeping people. Or you could say "he's must be busy and have a barrier up" knowing full well that nobody in the game is that good at barrier, what with wisdom being a dump stat for 90% of us. So there's already some IC/OOC problems with the way.

The other thing is abuse and this is my real hang-up, what with being a jaded cynic to the core and all. You can already use the Way to sniff the sdesc of a hooded figure, or someone that you overhead someone describing at a bar one time. Also, to know if that raider is around so you know when it's safe to salt. Or, oppositely, to see if that dude you wanna kill is around so you know whether it's worth your time to go looking for them. I don't feel like we need more specific ways to snoop out these things.

I mean, if we accept that the Way is a limitless, flawless, no downtime internet of the mind, then this makes sense. But it also eliminates the possibility of anyone playing dead successfully ever in the entire history of the game world. It also means that nobody has ever really went missing for longer than the period of time between when they accidentally drank from the blue striped keg and when one of their buddies wayed them to see if they wanted to hang out. I have problems with this idea from both the IC and OOC standpoint...

I get where the idea is coming from, and I've definitely felt that frustration myself - we all have - but if anything the way needs to be debuffed, rather than made more reliable. For the sake of the plotz!

[valeria]

It's definitely an OOC construct, but for the reasons stated by other people, I agree that the benefits of keeping it the same outweigh the benefits of changing it.

[Vwest]

As nice as it would be to have some function that let you know if someone was dead or just not logging in, I can see that being something that risks abuse and that negatively affects player's storylines.

This is already rampantly the case without any benefits.

ie; burglars checking for PCs minds before breaking into places, insta-outing people who have had massive description changes (self-mutilation, shaving, burning, scarification) because keywords are permanent, etc.

The option to leave a small note in some manner would be extremely welcome, even if it's an extended contact failure message, like "You contract XYZ, XYZ cannot come to your brain right now, working the fields." for a little flavor thing when you log off. You can't find Lord Templar Jiffylube because he's doing insufferable paperwork. You can't find Sergeant Kanksalot because he's sobbing quietly into his pillow, wracked with performance anxiety. Whatever.

Include an option for a small OOC note, too, if desired. "You contact XYZ, XYZ cannot come to your brain right now, working the fields. (Gone from the 12th to the 19th, making a porno)"

It'd be completely opt-in and at the very least, give us the chance to give people a way to explain our absence and give players potentially much needed OOC information. When I have to go and handle something and will be gone, I don't like leaving persons of interest grasping for reasons to explain why the person they live with is missing.

It makes no sense and it forces people into the position of choosing between "Um, derp?" and conjuring up a reason for the person being missing -- which might not add up if that person comes back, misses their roomie and explains things away in a completely different way. You would think people would be cool with taking it as an OOC misunderstanding, but nine times out of ten people will use it to their advantage, ie; accuse so-and-so of lying, it's a plot, off with their heads.

Which is meta as fuck and retarded to boot, but it happens as often as not.

I don't really like getting too OOC with other players if I can avoid it, too many bad experiences with people going weird on me. I'd like an option to let people know when I'm going to be MIA and for them to let me know, without having to cross that line of giving them my e-mail, PM, skype or whatever. OOC doesn't always line up, as you both have to be online and in the same room.

If someone is dead, it gives the generic message it does now. It could mean they died, it could mean they stored, it could mean they logged in a hurry to avoid the fuzz and preserves the general 'mystery' of missing persons without things having to be silly.

[BadSkeelz]

I'd like certain Guilds to be able to muck with the in-character portion of that message. I do like the idea of being able to set an in-character gone message like that, but also think the ambiguity and the uneasiness is instills is a good thing for the game.

Alternatively, if we're looking to avoid using the forums, I'd like if I could pass a message through staff ala the kudos system, informing significant PCs in my characters' life that I will be unavailable between dates.

[nauta]

Barrier could have extra input whether to block yourself completely from the way, or for people to be able to perceive you faintly/extremely faintly/etc.

This is a neat solution -- it's opt-in and would satisfy both camps, I'd think.  If you are in a relationship with someone, you can do 'barrier twinkle' before you logout to give the twinkle (faintly) message to people that try to contact you whilst you are away.  If you are being hunted down and want to preserve the mystery, you can just not do anything.

Here's the old discussion I was thinking of:

http://gdb.armageddon.org/index.php?topic=48445.0

There's probably more discussions out there.

[th3kaiser]

Gotta say, I don't really think it'd satisfy both camps. I kinda dislike it. You'd immediately see clan leaders toss out orders demanding it their minions always have twinkle-heads so they know when something is amiss. I just don't view the way as an instant messaging service and I don't want people to be able to set themselves an away message of any sort when they're gone. I just think it'd open things up to abuse.

[Armaddict]

As nice as it would be to have some function that let you know if someone was dead or just not logging in, I can see that being something that risks abuse and that negatively affects player's storylines.

This is already rampantly the case without any benefits.

ie; burglars checking for PCs minds before breaking into places, insta-outing people who have had massive description changes (self-mutilation, shaving, burning, scarification) because keywords are permanent, etc.

The option to leave a small note in some manner would be extremely welcome, even if it's an extended contact failure message, like "You contract XYZ, XYZ cannot come to your brain right now, working the fields." for a little flavor thing when you log off. You can't find Lord Templar Jiffylube because he's doing insufferable paperwork. You can't find Sergeant Kanksalot because he's sobbing quietly into his pillow, wracked with performance anxiety. Whatever.

Include an option for a small OOC note, too, if desired. "You contact XYZ, XYZ cannot come to your brain right now, working the fields. (Gone from the 12th to the 19th, making a porno)"

It'd be completely opt-in and at the very least, give us the chance to give people a way to explain our absence and give players potentially much needed OOC information. When I have to go and handle something and will be gone, I don't like leaving persons of interest grasping for reasons to explain why the person they live with is missing.

It makes no sense and it forces people into the position of choosing between "Um, derp?" and conjuring up a reason for the person being missing -- which might not add up if that person comes back, misses their roomie and explains things away in a completely different way. You would think people would be cool with taking it as an OOC misunderstanding, but nine times out of ten people will use it to their advantage, ie; accuse so-and-so of lying, it's a plot, off with their heads.

Which is meta as fuck and retarded to boot, but it happens as often as not.

I don't really like getting too OOC with other players if I can avoid it, too many bad experiences with people going weird on me. I'd like an option to let people know when I'm going to be MIA and for them to let me know, without having to cross that line of giving them my e-mail, PM, skype or whatever. OOC doesn't always line up, as you both have to be online and in the same room.

If someone is dead, it gives the generic message it does now. It could mean they died, it could mean they stored, it could mean they logged in a hurry to avoid the fuzz and preserves the general 'mystery' of missing persons without things having to be silly.

I'm a little confused.  I could be misreading you here.

Are you saying that since the Way is already able to be used to glean OOC information that can be used IC, we may as well sponsor said problem and make it a permanent construct for gleaning OOC information?

[Vwest]

I was pointing out that raising 'abuse' as a reason to withhold beneficial code functionality is ridiculous.

It's been exploited for years and years now, without ever being addressed or an effort made to curtail these abuses -- it's even staff supported to use 'contact figure' in-game to suss out peoples short descriptions and have your character know that information. I've got a request tool e-mail from Nyr asserting this is an acceptable and proper use, as is using the Way to track people down by their keywords.

There are all kinds of shady things players do with the Way to get an advantage. They've been doing it unmolested until today and tomorrow is going to be the same.

I would rather have more elaborate and beneficial functionality be added (ie; being able to let people know I'm out of town for the weekend, my PC will be tending the fields during that period of time, etc) and accept some risk of it being abused, as it's a better option than avoiding improving our coded functionality for fear of it being abused, simply because there is a history of similar functionality being abused.

I don't support gun control laws, either.

[Armaddict]

It's been exploited for years and years now, without ever being addressed or an effort made to curtail these abuses -- it's even staff supported to use 'contact figure' in-game to suss out peoples short descriptions and have your character know that information. I've got a request tool e-mail from Nyr asserting this is an acceptable and proper use, as is using the Way to track people down by their keywords.

This makes me chuckle because of the inconsistency over the years (and recently) over when you can and can't do this, and when it is and isn't appropriate to use sdescs to identify people.  It changes from situation to situation, it seems.  I wonder what the criteria are or if it's yet another arbitrary decision based on whether the overall thing is something desired or undesired, at the time.

I would rather have more elaborate and beneficial functionality be added (ie; being able to let people know I'm out of town for the weekend, my PC will be tending the fields during that period of time, etc) and accept some risk of it being abused, as it's a better option than avoiding improving our coded functionality for fear of it being abused, simply because there is a history of similar functionality being abused.

I will just have to be a voice of disagreement with you here.  The less sponsored OOC communication the better.  In the case of true LoA's where you would want to attach a message to someone using the Way, I'd say letting the staff know is part of that step as well, which means it can already be handled without this.  In the past, I've been notified when people relevant to my clan stored, if it was truly relevant.  I just don't see this being a great addition to the game.

burglars checking for PCs minds before breaking into places, insta-outing people who have had massive description changes (self-mutilation, shaving, burning, scarification) because keywords are permanent, etc.

Just noting that if a burglar actually does their research on a house and finds out who lives there before breaking in, I consider that worthy of kudos compared to the general behavior of the role.  Likewise, finding out if they fell asleep there is also awesome.  If they use the Way to make sure their target still hasn't woken up, you can call that abuse, but if they're doing that kind of legwork ahead of time, more power to them in my book.

So far as using situations like the above to somehow tie into 'Well, the Way already does this, let's give it a new function', I'm not so sure I approve of the bundling; it's clunky.  Your descriptions of abuse are not really situations of abuse under consensus, and thus using them as justification for expansion under the banner of 'well at least this abuse is useful' isn't a very favorable position.  Sometimes minds are available, sometimes they aren't, but I'm fairly certain they're never an answering machine, and in cases of actual LoA's where you would use the above functionality, you can let appropriate parties know beforehand, rather than implement something that gives a knowledge of whether the head being unavailable means this or that.

[Asmoth]

Being that this is a multiplayer game, some folks get attached to other characters.

When I was in Salarr one of the times, I had to clan mates that literally were inseparable, they joined Salarr together and when one died to a freak Bahamet, the other just wasn't the same, great roleplaying but so great that I think they actually were distraught because of the missing player.

Point of all that is I would rather there be a bit of ooc code to say "Homeboy is definitely dead" so that people know your awesome, or awful character has passed.  As is the coded body decays quickly, so if I die alone in the sand, all anyone will find is my mount and gear.  There should be a way to tell if someone is gone or doesn't exist anymore.

[Suhuy]

Clan boards usually post when someone retires, atleast certain people.

I've never seen this happen ever.

[Desertman]

Clan boards usually post when someone retires, atleast certain people.

I've never seen this happen ever.

I recall seeing it a few times.

It is always something like;

"Captain Fluffyfluffs was reassigned to another unit and won't be seen as often going forward as new duties are taking him elsewhere."

Things like that.

I saw a particularly funny one where someone put in a post about taking a dart to the eyeball in the middle of a dart game in a barracks alone to explain why they "went away". Heh.

[IAmJacksOpinion]

Yeah, I've only seen it once or twice. It would be nice it if happened more. Like if there was a section of the "leave a clan forum" to flag your own "Hey guys I'm dead now" message, ala "Word spreads around that Amos hasn't shown up for sparring in a couple weeks. No one has been able to find his mind in that time."

[Large Hero]

Yeah, I've only seen it once or twice. It would be nice it if happened more. Like if there was a section of the "leave a clan forum" to flag your own "Hey guys I'm dead now" message, ala "Word spreads around that Amos hasn't shown up for sparring in a couple weeks. No one has been able to find his mind in that time."

More than one plot has been ruined because people, innocently or otherwise, informed others OOCly that they were dead.

[SuchDragonWow]

Why even hood guys, when them rats can find you any Way.  I'ma vote no for death messages, though, because of that stuff about keeping your boss's skeleton in the closet.

[Norcal]

If I am in a leadership role, then I feel it's good to have some updates on folks in my clan, for example if no one has seen them around for a month IRL and they have not said anything on the boards.   I have presumed folks dead before, only to have them op up again, so after a reasonable amount of time I think it's ok for staff to let leadership PCs know who is still alive and who is under the sand.

However for all others, no. Zalanthas is a rough place, stuff happens. Not knowing just makes the sharpness of the edge between life and death that much more real.

[Dar]

Ever since my real life became all consuming, I keep getting these, "Oh Shit! Dar! I thought you died!" And I get them every two weeks. Sometimes from the same people.

[Lizzie]

Once upon a time, Talia was an assassination target, but Talia had an "important boss." So Malik wasn't going to kill Talia as long as there was even a remote possibility that Talia could way her boss to warn him that she was about to get ganked.

This was before the changes to the Way. Malik came up with a clever plan - he would try to contact Talia's boss whenever he saw Talia around. One day, he discovered Talia's boss was not in the game (he knew this because the echo showed this, before the changes were made). So he knew it was safe to try and kill Talia, because she couldn't run to her boss. He killed her, and Talia's boss never knew what happened because his player hadn't logged him into the game that day.

She was killed successfully because the Way showed "That character is not in Zalanthas" (or whatever the echo used to be).

The system was changed because of this kind of abuse. It wasn't the first time it'd happened, and in fact it was abused frequently enough that they felt it needed to be changed.

I'm glad it's changed, and I would not want to revert back to the old way. The staff continually works with the psionics system, and it's one system I have grown to trust that staff will keep an eye on and make tweaks as necessary (or not make them as necessary).