3/21/16 Update Discussion Thread

[Dresan]

My most powerful character to date is a merchant/armor-maker. He had advanced weapons, half-giant guards, magicks, and a number of other spooky stuff at his disposal at one point. That character proved to me something that Sanvean said a long time ago, 'The only skill you need is sirihish'

The fact that a ranger can only cast a handful of spells doesn't make him an less of a magicker in my eyes. The fact that a warrior only has a few sorcerer spells doesn't make them any less of a defiler. Though the awesome power of RP my merchant could have still killed them both.

I don't have any issues with this change. I do have the feeling that there will be a lot more hidden magickers around for a while at least until people stop experimenting with them. However I feel that this will just basically leads to seeing places outside of allanak becoming more populated and becoming even more dangerous, and I'm okay with that.

Though, I must say with all these changes, I fear for rangers  

[Asmoth]

My only concern, and keep in mind this is all guessing as I've never played a Templar or higher than a private in aod... My concern is that because there are going to so many magick enhanced mundanes that maybe staff and/or the Templars are gonna go from punishment to instant murder of infractions in a "thin the herd" type of move.

Now I may be totally wrong, just is my fear that Joe magicker will have some Templar visible shit on him and hey are like KEEL HIM!

[Vwest]

They were too extreme, too outside the otherwise low-magick gritty fantasy.

Nothing about the game is low magick.

No-thing.

I'm not sure how this keeps coming up as some kind of point, but it couldn't ring more false. Every aspect of the game is influenced by magick, every facet of the power structure is protected by magick and every major HRPT and major change to the game world has involved magick. The game world and everything about it is founded, build upon and fueled by magick powers.

You're posts are really getting a real "Marsha, Marsha, Marsha!" vibe.

[Dresan]

My only concern, and keep in mind this is all guessing as I've never played a Templar or higher than a private in aod... My concern is that because there are going to so many magick enhanced mundanes that maybe staff and/or the Templars are gonna go from punishment to instant murder of infractions in a "thin the herd" type of move.

Now I may be totally wrong, just is my fear that Joe magicker will have some Templar visible shit on him and hey are like KEEL HIM!

That might very well happen. But someone has to catch the hidden magicker in question casting first and then report it to the authorities.

Of course, the 'needing to catching someone casting first' is completely optional and can be skipped for convenience . It just becomes a question of who's been earning the templar's trust more.

[Armaddict]

I'm not sure how this keeps coming up as some kind of point, but it couldn't ring more false. Every aspect of the game is influenced by magick, every facet of the power structure is protected by magick and every major HRPT and major change to the game world has involved magick. The game world and everything about it is founded, build upon and fueled by magick powers.

You're taking it out of context, the same as someone else.  You can call the 'state of magick in the game' high or low fantasy or high or low magick or whatever you want to;  The gist of it is, magickal roleplay is not up in the forefront.  Magick has it's effect on everything, but the average gameplay does not revolve around magick of any sort, which is what drew a lot of people to the game.

[th3kaiser]

Yup, but there's also a lot of us who are completely the opposite and prefer the magick portions of the game.

[Zoan]

Yup, but there's also a lot of us who are completely the opposite and prefer the magick portions of the game.

I basically play nothing BUT magickers.

[Armaddict]

Yup, but there's also a lot of us who are completely the opposite and prefer the magick portions of the game.

Which is why the segregation and lack of mixing was such an ideal.  You could enjoy the magick portion of the game, and not have it constantly surrounding those of us who did not want high-magickal-exposure roleplay.

This is what my burden of change was about.  The system in place was ideal for keeping the two -mostly- separated.  It brought about frequent discussion on the merits of more mixing, which was wildly opposed from those in my camp.  However, the burden of change is on the proof (or sound logical theory) that more magickal exposure in daily routine is good for the game, is on those wanting the change, not on those thriving in the current ideal.

At least...that's how things -generally- go.

Edit to add:  Essentially, the demand for integration of magick into the daily roleplay of everyone else was where things got messed up.  I never demanded mages be more mundane or do more to help the mundanes or to give me more things to do.  However, the other side often got bored with their side of the magickal fence, and wanted to be more involved on the other side as well.  This is, I believe, the intent of this subguild change; to make magickal characters less dependent on the mundane for their shit.  I think (from what I've been able to gather).  However, the concern comes in that it will simply lead to magick being overdone and more present throughout the game, which is not a desirable side effect by most of those in the pro-mundane camp, and this is why there was the earlier statement that it didn't seem well thought out.  This is not to bring it back up, this is kind of a synopsis of the entire thing because the 'counter' of 'But some of us just like the magick side' isn't really valid in those contexts, i.e. There was nothing preventing you from playing the magickal setting, but there -may- now be prevention of us playing in the low-magickal setting now.  There was a constant call for magick to be more 'important' and 'noted' in the daily life of the mundane, which just wasn't ever a very well received idea (with exceptions on certain littler ideas).

[th3kaiser]

Ah, I see what you're saying now. I only brought up the lots of us like magick thing because your statement made me feel like you were implying most people want it kept to a minimum. Which I'd kind of disagree with. But, either way we are just going to have to see how the new magickers work out.

If I were to guess, the big changes are you're going to see more unmanifested in clans for longer periods of time and slightly less gemmers and more rogues due to being a loner will be a bit easier and more approachable to people who are familiar with mundane skillsets and less with surviving as a magicker outside.

[Asmoth]

There will always be those who love magick and those hate it.

The problem we run into in the game, at least in my opinion is that the people who hate it, will point at documentation all day long saying that it should be rarer, people should hate every mage they see etc etc.

People who love it will interpret it differently, because they want to play a game where they can interact with people.

So you will get the Armaddicts who are vehemently against magick.

And you will get TheKaisers who don't play anything else but magick.

It's a tough balancing act for staff I'm sure.  They want mages, but they don't want ALL mages.  They want mundanes, but they don't want all mundanes.

I don't think anyone has the answer.

[BadSkeelz]

They were too extreme, too outside the otherwise low-magick gritty fantasy.

Nothing about the game is low magick.

No-thing.

I'm not sure how this keeps coming up as some kind of point, but it couldn't ring more false. Every aspect of the game is influenced by magick, every facet of the power structure is protected by magick and every major HRPT and major change to the game world has involved magick. The game world and everything about it is founded, build upon and fueled by magick powers.

You're posts are really getting a real "Marsha, Marsha, Marsha!" vibe.

The game world is built on the bones of magick. You're right that it has influenced everything. But for me, the meat and potatoes of the game are the stories of normal(ish) people trying to eke out a living with just their brains and brawn. I find drama and inspiration of people facing these challenges, which some times include outbursts of magickal powers outside the realm of normal human understanding.

The lonely hunter clinging to life in the wastes is low magick. Soldiers fighting against giant beasts in defense of their homes is low magick. Merchant houses plotting against one another over control of trade is low magick. Rivalries between noble houses and the currying of influence and plotting assassination is low magick.

Until someone with perfectly controlled and immense elemental power is drafted to put swift ends to the problems.
Magicker PCs kill the drama of the game with their ironically mundane utility. They make things too easy. They make that huge laser light show less scary because HEY, it's not all that unusual compared to what Magickal Malik has been doing all week.

It's not really current magicker players' fault. Magick is a twinky storytelling device because the system we have now was developed by a twinky player who's interest was to lord over people. In that respect I think this is a good change, flattening and widening the scope that magick can affect player PCs. The real tyrannical magick is still there, just in the realm of staff where it can be used properly. I'm not terribly excited to see a group of magick subguild rangers ride in and start raising Cain (because I don't find magick particularly interesting), but I'm sure I'll adapt.

[Bast]

I am taking an arm break because of baby...So I haven't tired the change out and I think its interesting idea but core pure elementalist classes should absolutely not have been removed from the game..yes a warrior that can cast a handful of spells is cool..but I play this game for the mages...I typically want to play a mage..not a ranger with some extra mppff..so its unlikely I'll return to arm until mages back in. I've been arm 12 + years..I could care freaking less for the Dark Sun setting. I play for the magic system and the level of RP. Mages deserves their own class..while adding some magick subguilds is neat you should absolutely be able to play a pure caster.

[Asmoth]

I am taking an arm break because of baby...So I haven't tired the change out and I think its interesting idea but core pure elementalist classes should absolutely not have been removed from the game..yes a warrior that can cast a handful of spells is cool..but I play this game for the mages...I typically want to play a mage..not a ranger with some extra mppff..so its unlikely I'll return to arm until mages back in. I've been arm 12 + years..I could care freaking less for the Dark Sun setting. I play for the magic system and the level of RP. Mages deserves their own class..while adding some magick subguilds is neat you should absolutely be able to play a pure caster.

So you're never coming back? Because full mages are extinct.

[Harmless]

Don't worry, Bast. I'm not going to give up on the issue while you're off, and I also intend to keep playing the game in part to see how the loss of mages affects the game and provide meaningful feedback. Enjoy your break

[Centurion]

No no no Bast. Come back. Your one of my favs 

[Lizzie]

Help files are still wrong.

Karma Options http://www.armageddon.org/help/view/Karma%20Options still shows shadow, lightning, and void elementalists still something you can play with the appropriate karma level.
Drovians http://www.armageddon.org/help/view/Drovians still shows that they can be played, at 4 karma.
Nilazi http://www.armageddon.org/help/view/Nilazi still shows they can be played, at 6 karma.
Elkrosans http://www.armageddon.org/help/view/Elkrosians still shows they can be played, at 5 karma

[Dalmeth]

I'm kind of tickled at the notion that taking the gem is now a career path instead of a wholly self-contained player experience.

Tired of casting out in the wilderness?  Take the gem and start hobnobbing with the templars!

[BadSkeelz]

That was always the case?

[Asmoth]

I'm kind of tickled at the notion that taking the gem is now a career path instead of a wholly self-contained player experience.

Tired of casting out in the wilderness?  Take the gem and start hobnobbing with the templars!

Gemmed have always worked for the Templars, indirectly or directly.

There should be more career paths than Oash and certain merchant houses that can but won't hire you though.

[MeTekillot]

Merchant houses (and their employees(and some people)) will most definitely hire you. They're not going to go out and post a job position on the message boards, obviously.

When has the rule "You can't or shouldn't do this" ever stopped someone who was still willing to do that thing if they thought they would get ahead and not get caught?

[Asmoth]

Merchant houses (and their employees(and some people)) will most definitely hire you. They're not going to go out and post a job position on the message boards, obviously.

When has the rule "You can't or shouldn't do this" ever stopped someone who was still willing to do that thing if they thought they would get ahead and not get caught?

I was more talking full blown hired, yes I'm aware they can hire my magicker to do X and y and here is you're coins.  But I mean coded, actual uniform wearing employee.

[JBlack]

They were too extreme, too outside the otherwise low-magick gritty fantasy.

Nothing about the game is low magick.

No-thing.

Compared to other settings where everyone has a +3 magic weapon and potions, it is low magick

It's not as rampant as other settings and people should fear it and hate it for the most part... how much you see it depends on how much karma you got and if you want to revile gickers or not I guess. Magickers were already abundant in the game and theme sure, but this makes me cringe to think there will be ranger/gickers flying around and probably sniping you bundled into the kickass of a true guild. I've been nearly dropped with one spell before... one. Putting that on an assassin or ranger means people are going to start sneaking up on you while you tryinng to roleplay and dropping your character in a single spell... I predict a massive rise in the number of hidden gickers and I'm not sure if I like this at all.

The change feels unfair in a lot of ways that aren't part of the game. No one cares if you got dropped out in the sands by a gicker hungry ffor your backpack, sure, but it's unfair we got the people who want to play full elementalists and the peoples whos never got a chance to try them as full guilds. It might be the old man resistance to change in me, but I'm bummed out.

[Jihelu]

Thats the thing fam.
You don't know if they do got those +3 rings <3

[Adhira]

Re: the issue of Sorcerers vs Magickal subguilds

The most recent entry in the weekly update:  03/28/2016 Sorcerer subguilds updated with additional spells

[Lizzie]

Re: the issue of Sorcerers vs Magickal subguilds

The most recent entry in the weekly update:  03/28/2016 Sorcerer subguilds updated with additional spells

This is hopeful news. I still don't like the reconfigs of the magick system. I still am annoyed that I can't play a full-on sorc and that no one else can (so I can be their minion or victim or unsuspecting VBFF for a time). I am still very annoyed that I finally earned enough karma to play a Nilazi via special app, and BOOM - thanks for being awesome Lizzie, btw you can't do that afterall, neener neener.

The way I feel - which obviously is just my "feelings" on the matter, not even my opinion - my emotional response only - is to pray I never get any more karma because as soon as I do, something else will be ripped away from my options.