3/21/16 Update Discussion Thread

[valeria]

making magic more unpredictable and reflective of the game world, so that not every Krathi is exactly the same, is the one that makes the most sense to me

When reading the bolded segment, it implies that the RP of a mainguilded magicker "doesn't reflect the game world."

I can say pretty confidently that you're reading me wrong. When I say more reflective of the game world, what I first mean is not having every whiran have exactly the same connection to whiran as every other whiran. The party line has always been that magick is unpredictable. Except when each whiran was codedly the same, it wasn't unpredictable at all.

So no, I didn't feel that mages as coded didn't reflect the documentation, and that had nothing to do with how people play/ed them. Especially not you, since it sounds like you're a good rper.

[Delirium]

I hope not. Mundane guilds need to be able to do more things, not less.

[Pale Horse]

Considering how these changes have been implemented...I'm very curious to see what's going to happen to the changes made to the mundane guilds.

I'm getting a "shades of Arm 2.0" in this.  Prepare for the break-down/apart of mundane guilds.

I should point out that by "break-down/apart," I mean that the skill trees will be broken down into new guilds, such as: Merchant = Crafter and Trader.

[BadSkeelz]

Considering how these changes have been implemented...I'm very curious to see what's going to happen to the changes made to the mundane guilds.

I'm getting a "shades of Arm 2.0" in this.  Prepare for the break-down/apart of mundane guilds.

I should point out that by "break-down/apart," I mean that the skill trees will be broken down into new guilds, such as: Merchant = Crafter and Trader.

I hope not. Mundane guilds need to be able to do more things, not less.

[MeTekillot]

 In fact, they'll have to earn some of their prowess the hard way now.

What does this mean?

[Beethoven]

I'm all but certain it won't happen, but I'm amused by the idea of pickpocket and burglar being split into four separate guilds rather than merged as was the common suggestion.

[SuchDragonWow]

I'm not sure if it has been suggested, but I hope to see quasi-elemental return in the form of their own subguild, with each quasi-element as an aspect.  Though, I suppose some of their spells are going to be disseminated amongst the spell trees.

[Pale Horse]

Considering how these changes have been implemented...I'm very curious to see what's going to happen to the changes made to the mundane guilds.

I'm getting a "shades of Arm 2.0" in this.  Prepare for the break-down/apart of mundane guilds.

I should point out that by "break-down/apart," I mean that the skill trees will be broken down into new guilds, such as: Merchant = Crafter and Trader.

I hope not. Mundane guilds need to be able to do more things, not less.

Maybe we're seeing a change in how guilds will work, now.

You get a Main guild, a Second guild and a Sub-guild.

Or you pick your Main guild and an aspect of it that determines your starting skills.  You'll still get all the skills that the main guild would have gained, anyway, you just come to them in a different way from before.

[lostinspace]

I'm all but certain it won't happen, but I'm amused by the idea of pickpocket and burglar being split into four separate guilds rather than merged as was the common suggestion.

Well I mean, I would assume those two would be left alone and Assassins, Rangers, Warriors, and Merchants would be split up. I really don't have a problem with this, as it just happened to all those other guilds, why not these?

[Beethoven]

Oh, I wouldn't necessarily have a problem with it either, depending on how it was handled. I'm just amused at the prospect of splitting up those two.

[BadSkeelz]

Maybe we're seeing a change in how guilds will work, now.

You get a Main guild, a Second guild and a Sub-guild.

Or you pick your Main guild and an aspect of it that determines your starting skills.  You'll still get all the skills that the main guild would have gained, anyway, you just come to them in a different way from before.

I don't see any sign of that. Nor would I particularly like it if it was a thing.

If they split warriors in to something like Attack Warriors and Defense Warriors (which Jingo thinks is the most "logical" split), or Merchants into Crafters and Traders, that'll probably be it for me for a while.

[wizturbo]

So, it's day 3 for me, and these changes are sinking in some more....

I'll miss elementalist main guilds, but the trade off of the expanded subguilds at least leaves something cool to replace their loss

I really wish Nilaz, Drov and Elkros remained as subguilds too though.  The idea of a mundane with a few Drovian, Elkrosian, or Nilazi spells in their back pocket would be just as cool, if not cooler, than the other four elements.  I think it's a big mistake leaving them out and I hope staff reconsider on the front.

I'm standing down to Defcon 3.  Nuclear launch aborted.

[Delirium]

My HOPE is that they are looking to beef up mundanes and slightly depower mages -though mages will still be very scary in their own right due to having mundane guilds.

If that is the case, well by gosh, that would be AMAZING.

[Pale Horse]

My HOPE is that they are looking to beef up mundanes and slightly depower mages -though mages will still be very scary in their own right due to having mundane guilds.

If that is the case, well by gosh, that would be AMAZING.

I'm feeling the opposite, in a way.  I liked magick being mighty just because it's magick and magickers being scary because of the magick and not because they're now a "Blade-dancer" from D&D.

That isn't to say that I'm opposed to these changes, now that my initial shock is fading.  I'm still very intrigued about how this will all pan out in time.

[MeTekillot]

I think depowering mages has the exact opposite intended effect of magick being some cosmic unstoppable force that you're at the mercy of. Though I guess if the intention was to make magick less, uh, cosmic unstoppable force that you're at the mercy of and more "buffs plz", mission accomplished.

[Delirium]

My HOPE is that they are looking to beef up mundanes and slightly depower mages -though mages will still be very scary in their own right due to having mundane guilds.

If that is the case, well by gosh, that would be AMAZING.

I'm feeling the opposite, in a way.  I liked magick being mighty just because it's magick and magickers being scary because of the magick and not because they're now a "Blade-dancer" from D&D.

That isn't to say that I'm opposed to these changes, now that my initial shock is fading.  I'm still very intrigued about how this will all pan out in time.

In theory, I totally agree with you. In practice, in game playability, it just didn't really work well. Mainly due to the constraints of the game documentation.

I'm interested to see if the subguild-style mages work better.

[Refugee]

For about a year now I've been thinking my next PC would be an elementalist.  I had pondered over the different sorts and worried over the GDB posts about isolation and other things.  I really put a lot of thought into it and I had worked up a good idea for my first venture into magic that I've become fond of.  I'm sad that I won't ever get to bring him to life after so much thought energy went into him.

However!

The main part of the problem with me personally playing an elementalist was finding a way to put how I like to play into how the game works with elementalists.  And now it works differently!  The way it works now fits better into the premise of the world, I think, and that makes it easier for me to work with the idea.  I'm curious if how magic is treated by the masses will change, and if gemming will change.

(And maybe the guy I had dreamed up will show up after all, with a bit more consideration.)

[RogueGunslinger]

 In fact, they'll have to earn some of their prowess the hard way now.

What does this mean?

I believe it means you can't use Nil reach for backstab.

[Bogre]

For about a year now I've been thinking my next PC would be an elementalist.  I had pondered over the different sorts and worried over the GDB posts about isolation and other things.  I really put a lot of thought into it and I had worked up a good idea for my first venture into magic that I've become fond of.  I'm sad that I won't ever get to bring him to life after so much thought energy went into him.

That's a big point of the changes I think is lacking. There is currently no option to play a 'magick wielder' first and foremost. All of the mages changed from 'near-complete mage' to 'regular Joe with some additional powers'. But the focus of it is changed. Personally, I think it turns a little bit stale to only have a few spells in your repertoire if you are trying to imagine your char as a magick user. So that's why I'm sort of hoping main-guild mages are still a thing, to represent those people who -are- devoted to magick, rather than other things.

Although I think one thing that really always lacked in mage classes were 'filler' spells - useful and utility things, that ended up leaving most mage guilds relying on some defining end-tree specialist things.

[Harmless]

No matter how much I think about it and read counterpoints to my beef with the lack of mainguilds, I don't change my mind.

It only makes sense that some magick users would explore and expand their connection over time. After all, they are forced into a stigmatized sect of the world no matter what, why not figure out how to use it to your advantage? To maybe help those who normally would despise you, so that they tolerate you and let you live?

Honing your ability to use your supernatural connection is how you survive. When you see it that way, mainly magick-using people not only should exist, they naturally always will out of perceived necessity, were this to be realistic.

My two sids. I guess the bottom line is that we're doing this, "currently." I think I've said all my points by now..

[BadSkeelz]

I suppose a case could be made for Gemmed being more likely to go Full Magus and be encouraged to become closer to their element, since they don't really have a functional purpose to be anything else in society. Making Magick subguild based brings magick more in line with the tribal approach, where Magickers are integrated in to the tribe as hunters, shamans, and people first, spell-users last. It also helps Rogues, as others have said.

Personally I found the Gemmed/Full Magus approach to magick to be the least fitting with the Armageddon theme, but that's just me. Certainly they could use some more documentation on just what a Gemmed is, what they do, and how they're perceived.

[Bogre]

I suppose a case could be made for Gemmed being more likely to go Full Magus and be encouraged to become closer to their element, since they don't really have a functional purpose to be anything else in society. Making Magick subguild based brings magick more in line with the tribal approach, where Magickers are integrated in to the tribe as hunters, shamans, and people first, spell-users last. It also helps Rogues, as others have said.

Personally I found the Gemmed/Full Magus approach to magick to be the least fitting with the Armageddon theme, but that's just me.

A bit off topic: but I think gemmed could be better served as role-called roles. Make them rarer than the fluffy x-men squads you can get sometimes, and maybe expand some of their powers.

Make sure they're actually scary.

[Dan]

Actually scary? I see this and am baffled. As a full guild, they were incredibly scary. Possibly more so now depending on what spells you get.

[Delirium]

Actually scary? I see this and am baffled. As a full guild, they were incredibly scary. Possibly more so now depending on what spells you get.

I forget who first said this, but it was very true.

There is a progression of fear of mages.

doesn't know anything about magick - scared
knows some stuff about magick - not scared
knows a lot about magick - terrified

[Rokal]

My HOPE is that they are looking to beef up mundanes and slightly depower mages -though mages will still be very scary in their own right due to having mundane guilds.

If that is the case, well by gosh, that would be AMAZING.

This is what im hoping for too.

I'm super excited.