Remove Effects?

[Kryos]

This idea has popped up now and again in a few different threads, and I am curious how the player base that participates on the GDB feels about it.  The idea is, simply, those who create lasting effects are able to purposefully remove them.  I would say limiting this to beneficial effects is the basis here.  If staff has ever talked about it, or wants to, awesomesauce too.

[Jihelu]

If you get get to mon in an ability and branch out whatever I feel like you should be able to remove THAT effect and THAT effect only.
Otherwise, eh. You have nil for a reason

[Lizzie]

As much as I'd love to be able to remove those effects, I don't think it'd be a positive enhancement to the game as whole because of its reduction of usefulness to people who already can do that. On the other hand, maybe there could be some limited version of effect removal. Maybe it could cut in half whatever duration is left of it. So say - you're affected by Charm. It usually lasts 1 hour. You know you only really need it for 20 minutes, and your play time is limited. So you "undo charm" as soon as you cast it, and it will now only last 1/2 hour. BUT...because you have halved its duration, you now *cannot* cast it again until it was scheduled to wear off on its own.  So - you still have to wait an hour to cast it again.

If you want it removed the "traditional" way that would still work as always, in the usual way, and you can cast it again whenever you want, as usual.

[Jingo]

I would be fine with it. We're talking about two guilds that are capable of doing it already for some bizarre arbitrary reason. They wouldn't be losing much if we just added a way to clear self-cast status effects.

[Kryos]

As much as I'd love to be able to remove those effects, I don't think it'd be a positive enhancement to the game as whole because of its reduction of usefulness to people who already can do that. On the other hand, maybe there could be some limited version of effect removal. Maybe it could cut in half whatever duration is left of it. So say - you're affected by Charm. It usually lasts 1 hour. You know you only really need it for 20 minutes, and your play time is limited. So you "undo charm" as soon as you cast it, and it will now only last 1/2 hour. BUT...because you have halved its duration, you now *cannot* cast it again until it was scheduled to wear off on its own.  So - you still have to wait an hour to cast it again.

If you want it removed the "traditional" way that would still work as always, in the usual way, and you can cast it again whenever you want, as usual.

I was making a case only for things you did to yourself, that were beneficial.  Partially not to create overlap with other things in the game, and partially because some of the reasoning behind why not being able to was a hindrance.  Things you didn't do, did to others, or negative effects wouldn't be affected.

[FantasyWriter]

I really like the much discussed idea from the past of having all sustained beneficial spells cost you max mana similar to how scan/listen/contact work currently.
Perhaps even have sustained negative spells that you cast on others draw on that mana in the same way until the victim dies, has the spell broken by time/someone else or you release it.

Please leave the ability to actual break most/all spells only in the hands of the people that currently have it, though.

[Lizzie]

As much as I'd love to be able to remove those effects, I don't think it'd be a positive enhancement to the game as whole because of its reduction of usefulness to people who already can do that. On the other hand, maybe there could be some limited version of effect removal. Maybe it could cut in half whatever duration is left of it. So say - you're affected by Charm. It usually lasts 1 hour. You know you only really need it for 20 minutes, and your play time is limited. So you "undo charm" as soon as you cast it, and it will now only last 1/2 hour. BUT...because you have halved its duration, you now *cannot* cast it again until it was scheduled to wear off on its own.  So - you still have to wait an hour to cast it again.

If you want it removed the "traditional" way that would still work as always, in the usual way, and you can cast it again whenever you want, as usual.

I was making a case only for things you did to yourself, that were beneficial.  Partially not to create overlap with other things in the game, and partially because some of the reasoning behind why not being able to was a hindrance.  Things you didn't do, did to others, or negative effects wouldn't be affected.

That's my point. If you could remove it yourself, you'd never need someone else to remove it for you and therefore, that very specific and significant "interaction device" would no longer be necessary. Certain people CAN do these things for you. Like I said. I'd love to be able to remove my own things without needing to wait it out or wait for someone who can do it for me. But what I consider a huge convenience, doesn't necessarily equate with a game need or even something in the game's best interests. Everything you do that makes me more self-sufficient, pushes me further into an isolated role that doesn't require anyone to work WITH me. I'm thinking in terms of cooperative gaming. Making me able to completely remove my own effects makes for less cooperative gaming.

But - the "that'd be SO convenient" side of me does wish there was something more than just waiting it out or getting someone else to completely remove it for me. That's why I suggested what I suggested.

[Lizzie]

Adding this as a new thought: There are certain things that can be given to yourself - that someone else *cannot* remove, and that you simply have to wait out. Those very specific isolated things - I agree it'd be great if we could remove those ourselves. Or maybe even control the duration. Maybe I only need that thing for 5 RL minutes. But I'm stuck having to deal with it for a RL hour. That - I definitely don't like and wish it could be manipulated.

[Delirium]

I solved that problem as a gemmed by paying a templar a huge amount of money to write me a scroll that said "since the effects are not visible to the general public, this character is a trusted servant and can leave the Quarter with these very specific powers on". The justification was that it'd help me catch rogues. Of course, should a different templar ever have decided they wanted to disregard that scroll and punish me, they darn well could have.

The OOC reason was so that I wasn't stuck in the Quarter forever and ever, especially since I'd often get called out of there for meetings.

So you can work around it, but it definitely is a huge hassle. And that is not something that will help rogues at all, either.

What I would like is if sustained powers sapped an amount of mana from your max, until you "released" them. /shrug

[Lizzie]

I solved that problem as a gemmed by paying a templar a huge amount of money to write me a scroll that said "since the effects are not visible to the general public, this character is a trusted servant and can leave the Quarter with these very specific powers on". The justification was that it'd help me catch rogues. Of course, should a different templar ever have decided they wanted to disregard that scroll and punish me, they darn well could have.

The OOC reason was so that I wasn't stuck in the Quarter forever and ever, especially since I'd often get called out of there for meetings.

So you can work around it, but it definitely is a huge hassle. And that is not something that will help rogues at all, either.

What I would like is if sustained powers sapped an amount of mana from your max, until you "released" them. /shrug

Oh - or sustained powers that were not native to your own element would do that. I like that. So if my VBFF Vivaduan pal cast "anti-menstrual-bloat" on me, the drovian, it'd cost me a 5-mana drop in my max until my *next* period (which is when the spell wears off and I become bloated again). But if she casts it on herself, no drop in mana max for her. And when I cast "Ambien-Sleep" on her, SHE will endure a 5-point max mana penalty until it wears off the next morning, when she wakes up refreshed (and possibly discovering the fridge is empty and she's been texting in her sleep).

[Delirium]

Well, the idea was more to have it work like barrier or listen does, where you take a small penalty while active but can "uncast" it whenever you want.

Other spells cast on you wouldn't be able to be released... maybe if it was from an opposing element (drov/krath, ruk/wind) it'd come with a small penalty.

[wizturbo]

I like the sustained spell concept, but don't like the code work that would be needed to do it.  That work could be spent making new spells all together which would be a larger benefit IMO.

id just like for Gemmed to have a way in and out of the city with spell effects on.  It's very annoying being stuck outside for days, or risking pissing off a Templar or bad roleplay of walking through the streets with spell effects.  Some other option there would be great.

[Delirium]

A separate entrance to the gemmed quarter has been suggested before, and I kinda like it. It makes thematic sense.

[nauta]

An NPC templar once told a new gemmed that it was illegal to have spell effects on 'outside their temple'.  I thought it was funny because that would mean, unless elementalist of type X, there's no way for them to get rid of the spell effects, since they can't make it to the guy that takes away spell effects.

Rather than a gate, I thought it'd be nice to move that dispel guy (or have another guy) outside the gates somewhere.

[Delirium]

Officially you can have spell effects on anywhere in the gemmed quarter. You can even cast magic out there, though it is highly discouraged.

That's the way it's been for a long time.

Of course, laws are always open to interpretation by the templarate, so whatever they say at that moment goes.

[Marauder Moe]

God this would make city-based mages so much more playable.  It's really annoying to have to go out under-protected because full strength buffs can last RL hours and you don't have that long to play.

The current ways of doing it would still be useful for offensive purposes.

The idea of sustained powers that lower max mana is interesting too.  Wouldn't object to a "Gemmer's Gate" either, though I can understand that the Ministry of War might consider it a weakening of Allanak's walls.

[Lizzie]

I tried pushing for that ICly with a previous gemmed character, over a year ago. It had gotten as far as the templar bringing the matter up with the ministry of trade. But nothing ever came of it. I had actual specific plans, descriptions set aside for room changes and exits, IC plans for laying stone and the actual physical construction of it, and IC explanations of virtual changes to the soldiers. But I never had a chance to get that far into it. Apparently it's been brought up in-game fairly often over the past few years.

[Armaddict]

No feelings either way, except for one:

Do not make it a 'gift' for the gemmed.  I want more incentive for mages to have a true decision on whether or not they take the gem, not more to make it a given.

[Majikal]

A separate entrance to the gemmed quarter has been suggested before, and I kinda like it. It makes thematic sense.

Best idea in thread. Even cooler if the entrance checks/verifies gem status to use. Also allows AoD of course.

[FantasyWriter]

I'm thinking sally port type deal that you have to pay a fee to use, not a full blown gate.

[wizturbo]

Frankly, it could just be the west gate of Allanak, and then open up a way into the Gemmed Quarter on the road that leads north from there.  That area of the city has no current purpose, it's just a walled off road.

If I were staff for a day, I would strip away some of the newer magickal protections and instead have a Templar at each gate that can identify spell effects.  If your character has a spell effect on them, isn't Gemmed, or isn't in the AOD, it triggers crimcode just like spice would.  Gemmed could then walk north of the west gate into the Gemmed Quarter, and perhaps pay some kind of tax for the privledge.  Ungemmed would obviously be at risk of getting arrested, which makes a hell of a lot of sense.

[Majikal]

I dislike the thought of a shared entrance, commoners mingling with those dirty gicks that have active spells on could be bad.

A separate smaller entrance that let mages slip in the back would make sense though I think, taxed even, that'd be cool.

[Inks]

Do not make it a 'gift' for the gemmed.  I want more incentive for mages to have a true decision on whether or not they take the gem, not more to make it a given.

Self buffs only, in my opinion.

[Lizzie]

Frankly, it could just be the west gate of Allanak, and then open up a way into the Gemmed Quarter on the road that leads north from there.  That area of the city has no current purpose, it's just a walled off road.

If I were staff for a day, I would strip away some of the newer magickal protections and instead have a Templar at each gate that can identify spell effects.  If your character has a spell effect on them, isn't Gemmed, or isn't in the AOD, it triggers crimcode just like spice would.  Gemmed could then walk north of the west gate into the Gemmed Quarter, and perhaps pay some kind of tax for the privledge.  Ungemmed would obviously be at risk of getting arrested, which makes a hell of a lot of sense.

This was basically the suggestion I made ICly and attempted to get implemented. It was going to be a narrow archway carved into the wall there with a soldier on each side to monitor comings and goings (and other features I included). This wall wasn't always there, it was added several years ago as a result of IC circumstances, just as the entrance on Ruk's Way used to be open. Those circumstances no longer exist, and so that wall (and the one on Ruk's Way) doesn't need to be there anymore.

[Asmoth]

I have had various characters who simply cleared it with Templars ahead of time like that one lady said above.

Most of the time, I have found the Templars to not instantly go to kill it! When they saw me with my magickal underwear on.

Visible magick is the bigger problem and I've always sorta not liked that I can turn into a walking status as a rukkian, but I can't turn it off.  So if be all for being able to remove your own abilities.