Roleplaying having 'scan' vs not having it

[Harmless]

Share your ideas of how to RP the 'scan' skill, or how to realistically portray someone who can never 'scan' and detect hidden people:

Ideas for roleplaying PCs without scan

- Too confident in their safety, at all times, they simply don't give a shit (warrior)

-  They're afraid of poking around in dark places and avoid it (timid)

- They're spoiled by having guards around (lazy, wealthy)

- They're inattentive about a number of things, including others' emotional states, forgetful of names or facts

- They have more serious mental issues

As for roleplaying scan, that is somewhat less interesting to me, but those PCs are usually:

- Brave, fearless, hunters, killers.

- dedicated, focused, disciplined

- cunning, paranoid, or traumatized


I will say this. I don't think it makes a lot of sense that some guilds completely lack it, and at times I need to select a different guild to play the personality I want.

[wizturbo]

Armageddon's stealth system is pretty hard to rationalize.  

Every single person in the world can attempt to find someone whose hidden, and every person in the world is capable of hiding.  In Armageddon, that's not possible.  You can only hide if you have the skill on your skill sheet, you can only detect hiders if you have scan on your skill sheet.  It's a commendable effort, to try and build weaknesses and flaws into your character based on their skills or lack thereof...  But this seems very forced to me.  

The few times I've had to role play dealing with an unrealistic circumstance related to stealth code, I've pretended the environment was to blame.  My torch went out.  Or I forgot to close the door behind me.  Things like that, and then, only so the scene made some sense.

As a side note, I personally think scan, hide, and sneak should be available to everyone without exception, but at apprentice level, with the guilds that specialize in that sort of thing getting bonuses where appropriate.  In fact, if you want to get technical, I would make them racial skills, and vary based on race.  The half-giant might start with novice stealth, for instance, for obvious reasons.  That means that a human merchant in camouflage gear might be able to hide from a half-elf warrior without a scan improving subguild if they get lucky...  That seems completely reasonable to me.  At the same time, I'd like environmental conditions to buff or nerf stealth.  If it's day time, scan gets a universal bonus, making it harder to hide.  At night, the reverse is true.  

If those changes were in place, this kind of RP would make sense.  You have personality types that are predisposed to being 'good' at spotting or hiding, but you don't have situations where you're completely incapable of doing something that any 5 year old could do.

[Harmless]

Completely agree with that post!

[Rokal]

Completely agree with that post!

[BadSkeelz]

Large helmets worn by warriors limits their vision.

[RogueGunslinger]

Bad vision is a thing, and there's no way to correct it with lenses in Arm.

[Lizzie]

Bad vision is a thing, and there's no way to correct it with lenses in Arm.

And yet, someone who can't see a jozhal hiding behind their own shoe has no problem making ten opal rings with flawless vinework on the tiny, delicate band, in a row AND see the tall dark figure three leagues away in the middle of a dense forest.

Sadly - bad vision can't explain this away.

[RogueGunslinger]

Bad vision is a thing, and there's no way to correct it with lenses in Arm.

And yet, someone who can't see a jozhal hiding behind their own shoe has no problem making ten opal rings with flawless vinework on the tiny, delicate band, in a row AND see the tall dark figure three leagues away in the middle of a dense forest.

Sadly - bad vision can't explain this away.

Sure it can. Seeing something far off? Movement. Don't need incredibly sharp focus to see something move. Can make flawless rings? You're nearsighted and can see things perfectly fine when they are up close.

Also nothing is forcing you to roleplay like you recognize the tall, muscular man as Amos 3 rooms away. That is your own roleplay choice.

[valeria]

Bad vision is a thing, and there's no way to correct it with lenses in Arm.

This is usually about how I RP it.  But there are other ways, like someone just not being trainable to pay attention to surroundings.  Situational awareness is not something everyone is born with.

[Doublepalli]

When I roleplay characters with scan, typically I play them off as simply being more aware, in tune with their surroundings, keener eyes and ears. On the off-hand, if I was playing a class without scan like warrior, Harmless said it best, they'd just be too confident in their ways to be worried about something hiding, or they are too focused on a task, they miss details. To them, if you're hiding, you're no match for him/her anyways.

[hyzhenhok]

Bad vision is a thing, and there's no way to correct it with lenses in Arm.

And yet, someone who can't see a jozhal hiding behind their own shoe has no problem making ten opal rings with flawless vinework on the tiny, delicate band, in a row AND see the tall dark figure three leagues away in the middle of a dense forest.

Sadly - bad vision can't explain this away.

There is no reason to assume something is right next to you just because it's in the same room.

[Chettaman]

A lot of my characters don't have scan. I use it when appropriate, though. Just because I know that in D&D if I'm not actively looking for something, I won't even get a chance to notice it.
In arm it's the same. Either I'm looking for something or I'm not. How successful I am is a different story.
having the scan skill... eh. When I do actually have the skill I roleplay always being alert if it's active or not. It seems kind of twinky... but I know guys that sleep with one eye open for real. I'll hemote noticing everyone's moves and the room echos, my ears twitching and reacting naturally to stimuli getting closer or further, sniffing often times as if smelling something closer or farther away. Reacting to that feeling you get when someone is looking at you.

I totally agree that everyone should at least be able to hide. Just like they're able to sneak. They should also be able to pick locks. At a much much much lower chance of success. I just get sad whenever I do type hide and I'm doing it for ten minutes hoping something is going to actually happen. And steal. That too.

[Case]

sunslit scan penalty needed

[solera]

Or not. If you reduce the glare, you might be able to see better. In the sands.

[Case]

Or not. If you reduce the glare, you might be able to see better. In the sands.

With a more limited range of vision? Yeah not really

[RogueGunslinger]

Or not. If you reduce the glare, you might be able to see better. In the sands.

With a more limited range of vision? Yeah not really

Yes, really. The whole purpose of sunslits is to see better by keeping sun out of your eyes. Seeing better = detecting better.  It limits peripheral vision, but not nearly as much as you would think. The wider the slits the better your field of view.

[fourTwenty]

I would argue for sunslits to give an outdoor buff to scan.

[Case]

Or not. If you reduce the glare, you might be able to see better. In the sands.

With a more limited range of vision? Yeah not really

Yes, really. The whole purpose of sunslits is to see better by keeping sun out of your eyes. Seeing better = detecting better.  It limits peripheral vision, but not nearly as much as you would think. The wider the slits the better your field of view.

Lol they keep sand out of your eyes through limiting light. Any environment where that is necessary to see even a little is not going to be usefully scanned or helped by limited vision (yes, any limitation on your eye's field of vision will cut down on vision).

They're away from your face. That introduces error in vision. If light and eyes worked how you think they do, glasses wouldn't need complicated prescription.

[Delirium]

if we were allowed to have glass goggles (there is glass, there is leather, I really think it's a reasonable invention), I could see those aiding scan.

sunslits a'la Kanye West like we have now, no.

[nauta]

Related to the first post:

The one thing I find slightly hard to navigate with scan is the echo that is sent to the room when people start to scan, something like:

Code Select Expand


The dude intently scans the area.


I'm not sure if I should respond to this or just pretend it is a non-echo.  I mean, after all, scan persists, so one would be 'intently scanning the area' throughout the duration and not just at the first moment.

Otherwise, I don't even RP scan.  I just assume my character is more perceptive than others, and the skill represents that. I do the same with listen.

And just to help guide the discussion, here's what the helpfile says:

  This skill allows a keen use of observational techniques and good vision
to spot invisible and hidden persons.

...

Your character must be standing in order to scan the best.  Sitting or
resting will have negative impacts on your ability to scan.

...

Scanning takes concentration, and so while in use your maximum stun is
decreased based on how good you are at scanning.

ETA: I also always get gotcha'd with 'scan status' and the fact that scan/listen don't show up in stat/score.  Why is there a delay on these?

[RogueGunslinger]

sunslits a'la Kanye West like we have now, no.

What the actual fuck are they actually described like that? I've always imagined them like Eskimo snowgoggles: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snow_goggles

Edit: Have the feeling I've had this same exact discussion before.


Edit2: Armageddons stealth and scan code is too limited and simple to make easy comparisons to reality.

[Vositus]

if we were allowed to have glass goggles (there is glass, there is leather, I really think it's a reasonable invention), I could see those aiding scan.

sunslits a'la Kanye West like we have now, no.

I could have sworn a particular Byn sergeant with calico hair (anyone? I forget his name) had a pair 10+ RL years ago. Or something very similar.

Edited to add:
I also kinda think every guild should be able to sneak, hide, climb, scan, and listen to maybe apprentice, barring racial traits/disability of course.

[LauraMars]

There used to be goggles but they were all retconned like sandwiches.

[Tuannon]

Dangeresque scan gear.

[solera]

sunslits a'la Kanye West like we have now, no.

What the actual fuck are they actually described like that? I've always imagined them like Eskimo snowgoggles: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snow_goggles

Aren't they? I have always assumed they cut down glare as Wiki says. And sand.