Taking a look at dwarves.

[The Silence of the Erdlus]

Not being willing to give out their focus, or giving you a focus that sounds fake, may be a sign of having a focus that is dangerous to spread around.

I know what MY next dwarf focus is. Its going to be beautiful, and horrible and just fun.

[RogueGunslinger]

Personally I never noticed that trend until it became a popular meme. I think all the bitching about it made people do it out of spite, or something. I've actually seen it more on elves.

There's nothing to be done about people who don't use caps/puncts except for auto-correct in the game. Reporting them doen't seem to help.


Why doesn't it just auto cap/punctuate?

[Miradus]

Dark Sun dwarves just suck. Hairless, no tradition, no strongholds ... meh. All the best parts of dwarves removed.

I have always played dwarves in other games because I love the lore. From Tolkien to Warhammer, dwarves just plain rock.

In Dark Sun and its offspring? I feel too handicapped by what is missing.

The argument for making them karma doesn't make sense. You see a dwarf walk by. How do you possibly know whether or not he's playing to his focus? Does every dwarf immediately approach every other PC and fully explain their focus and how their current activity relates to it? No?

And if they want to carry a crate, chest, or barrel around then freaking let them. Is it that immersion breaking to see someone with a plain baobab chest in their inventory sitting at the bar? People sit in bars all the time with piles of book bags, shopping bags, or whatever at their feet. I keep thinking that argument is put to rest but it's the original ARM zombie, always rising from the dead.

[CodeMaster]

Mirukkim apparently emerged as a language at about the time of the Dragon's departure from the Known World. Before that time the linguistic conventions were scattered, non-uniform rules used by handfuls of people at any given instant.

There are striking resemblances between Mirukkim and very old human languages (predating Tatlum). It is not unreasonable that the Mirukkim tongue was once a unified language similar to Kenessesh or some other extremely ancient human speech. The dominance of the Empire of Man (during which dwarves were most probably used as slaves) and the arrival of the Dragon quite possibly caused much of the fragmentation of Mirukkim.

The language files contain some compellingly interesting hints about dwarves and the stories they lived in days past.  I find them a great source of inspiration for any character.

[RogueGunslinger]

I am Jack Opinion had soem good questions for staff:

What are the most common focuses you see getting apped?
Are there significant numbers of players who take "cop out" focuses? (Cop out meaning ones that can't see any reasonable progress in game. Like, ones involving VNPCs or something.)
About what percentage of dwarves do you see really playing out their focus; including progress reports, or actions taken toward it.
What's the crazies focuse you've ever seen (and can talk about).

1)  "To be the greatest warrior/hunter/whatever coded skill."  ("Hrrngnngh, something that lets me do a lot of combat!" is by far the most popular)
2)  Yes.  See above.
3)  Well the guys from #1 seem to do a lot of sparring, hunting, crafting, whatever.  Rough circle, buddy.  The reporting quality and frequency varies a lot, as it does across the playerbase for any segment of the population.
4)  There have definitely been some good ones but I don't want to call anyone out as some of them (may) live to this day.  But sadly, and honestly - the hordes of people who fall under #1 kind of drown out the others.

I think it's all the more clear that dwarves need to be a karma race.


Edit: I just envisioned all the possible "reductionist" and "culture of limitation" arguments that would spur up if staff did this and I eye-rolled so hard they went full circle.

[BadSkeelz]

I don't think it would really matter. In my experience, it isn't the "shallow-focus no-punctuation took-dwarf-for-max-stat" dwarves played by zero karma players you have to "worry" about. They're pretty obvious and quickly die; not much more dangerous than a human with good stats.

[Miradus]

I am Jack Opinion had soem good questions for staff:

...
I think it's all the more clear that dwarves need to be a karma race.

I'd like to ask what percentage of those crappy backgrounds come from players who already HAVE karma.

Not exactly a fan of dwarves, but I can tell you that you start seeing less and less in chargen as a newbie and then learn that it could be RL YEARS before you ever see your first karma point ... then someone asks the inevitable question of "wtf is the point of playing THIS game."

[IAmJacksOpinion]

Eh, I still don't think that they need to be karma. I see tons of poorly played humans to. Hell, I've seen poorly played MULs.

Not being willing to give out their focus, or giving you a focus that sounds fake, may be a sign of having a focus that is dangerous to spread around.

Not really what I'm talking about. I don't think I've ever seen anyone, dwarf or otherwise, refer to their focus directly in game. At least not as a "focus." I'm talking more about a situation where I'm in a clan with you for an IG year, and we interact often, and I've never picked up on something like "Man, this dwarf really hates gith", or "He's really into stone carving" or any kind of personality at all that lends to your focus, it's usually safe to assume you're probably not playing the race to its full potential.

[Erythil]

I'd feel way more inclined to play dwarves if they had their own tribe/settlement/eyebrows/beards.

[wizturbo]

I'd feel way more inclined to play dwarves if they had their own tribe/settlement/eyebrows/beards.

Agreed.  Dwarven culture seems nonexistent.  It's a race that lacks an identity.  I'm guessing that the Gith players right now know more about how the Gith than anyone knows about the Dwarves.

[BadSkeelz]

That's kind of their schtick. They're not a nation, they don't have a culture (though I believe there are references to dwarven tribes?) They're functionally tools of their focus. They're just too obsessive-compulsive to angst about it like muls do.

[Inks]

That's kind of their schtick. They're not a nation, they don't have a culture (though I believe there are references to dwarven tribes?) They're functionally tools of their focus. They're just too obsessive-compulsive to angst about it like muls do.

Exactly.

Dwarves are a slave race. Why would they have culture outside their focus? There are small dwarf families and tribes no doubt with their own culture but dwarves are working as intended. Don't feel bad dwarf players, you are doing well, every one of you. I would be absolutely fine with them being 1 karma but I feel karma players honestly have enough advantages as it is. Taking more away from newbies would be a bad step for the game, so I disagree with Doublepalli for that reason. Unless something else opened up.

[RogueGunslinger]

Give dwarves something unique and interesting to focus on, like an in-game business/clan/guild of some sort.

The Dwarven Coalition. Bands dwarves together, fights for their rights, and helps them when they're down on their luck, taxes members. Someone make this their next dwarves focus.

[Erythil]

I get that it's their shtick, I just think it's boring.  If dwarves were slaves but remembered their great fortress Erebor or whatever, that'd be more interesting to me, even the memory of vanished glory.

I also think the OCD dwarf focus thing is lame and boring and that dark sun dwarves really just read like they changed them a bunch just for the sake of changing them.  Like, their being hairless reads to me as nothing more tan 'OUR dwarves are DIFFERENT!' for the sake of being different.

They don't tunnel or dig rocks, they aren't renowned makers of magical things, they don't get drunk, they don't farm plump helmets, they don't covet wealth, etc. etc.  They should be called something entirely different.

[BadSkeelz]

Dwarves with boring foci say more about players than they do about dwarves.

Dwarves have license to be the most unique, engaging, and insane PCs in the game. People just have to be more creative in their thinking.

[Miradus]

I have had a dwarf focus to found a new dwarven religion all the way to find a lost city of dwarves which doesn't exist.

They can be roleplay fun, but I do just like the dwarves of almost every other campaign setting better.

Even (gasp) Faerun dwarves are more fun.

I know. I said it. I won't take it back.

[valeria]

It isn't difficult to play a character that's obsessed with a goal.  Dwarves allow 0-karma players to demonstrate that they can play something with a little bit of coded power and a little bit of RP restriction within the docs (which is more or less what you have to do to get karma).  And since a dwarf focus is mostly internal and the coded benefits of playing a dwarf aren't exactly super-powered, if someone isn't doing it right, it isn't going to break the game.  In comparison, other 1-karma options are desert elves, vivs, and ruks, which all have some pretty serious roleplay restrictions.  I don't think bumping dwarves up to 1 karma is necessary or productive.

Meanwhile, I've seen a lot of threads lately that have themes of 'I don't want to play stats that don't let me use my coded skills,' 'there's nothing wrong with spending 20 days played in the wilderness to skill up,' 'I shouldn't have to interact if I don't want to,' etc.  But if someone wants to give their dwarf character a focus that allows them to have some reason to regularly use their coded skills?

NO DON'T DO THAT BAD RP

So what if it's been done before.  Guess what else has been done before?  Indie Hunter, Jayne-Cobb-esq Byn Warrior, Tressy Aide... basically everything in Armageddon has been done before by someone, and the obvious things have been done a lot.  Especially the obvious things that involve using your coded skills, because people like to use their coded skills.

[The Silence of the Erdlus]

I kind of wish dwarves would slowly transform into tolkein-esque dwarves over the next hundred game years (growing hair, having a real culture that can be viewed in real items like elvish longbows or gypsy skirts are) but I don't think staff is gonna want to do it.

[James de Monet]

There's no reason dwarves can't have unique items. They aren't stupid.  Just single minded.  If something would work better for dwarves than other races (I can think of a few things off-hand that would) and would benefit some of them achieving their focus, there shouldn't be a problem with getting them IG.  Just takes a staffer to do a call, or a character to mastercraft.

As to a dwarven nation...heh.  I think it would be difficult to marshall a nation if half your citizens kept leaving every day because they "had something important to do."  That's why dwarves are easy to enslave (initially).  They don't support each other.  And they aren't idealistic by nature.  They are all out for themselves (by the human way of thinking).

[Case]

Vivs and ruks are 2 karma, not 1.

[Eurynomos]

I kind of wish dwarves would slowly transform into tolkein-esque dwarves over the next hundred game years (growing hair, having a real culture that can be viewed in real items like elvish longbows or gypsy skirts are) but I don't think staff is gonna want to do it.

No, we won't.

[Majikal]

My bit on dwarves.

My most enjoyable dwarf I ever played was a Rukkian that had the focus of becoming a Legend. It was vague and silly at a glance but it took him on a journey. Over time he became powerful, made sure he hung around people he thought were the stuff of stories and mimicked alot of what they did, had special armor fashioned for him that made him look like a legend, he was a big showboat. He challenged truly legendary beasts, paid bards to follow him around and witness his deeds. He created a following that joined him under a particular banner, all die hard loyalists. One day a Templar congratulated him on something spectacular he did, giving all of that credit to his powerful magicks. This turned into him despising his element for stealing all of his 'glory' and led him to rebel against Ruk itself, he stopped using magick and grew to be a brutal fighter without it. Eventually his element actually turned on him and things REALLY got interesting.

Playing a focus that evolves with the character is really getting the most out of a dwarf.

Be the best assassin.
Be the best warrior.
Be the best hunter.

If you end up making a focus like this, I recommend letting it evolve into something more than a skill grind. Be the best assassin, seek them out for training, assassins know about poisons so make yourself an apothecary for awhile and learn the ins and outs of herbs and medicine. Study weaponry, join salarr with a purpose of befriending one of their master crafters to learn more about weapons. Obsession can be hella fun to play out.

[Miradus]

There's no reason dwarves can't have unique items. They aren't stupid.  Just single minded.  If something would work better for dwarves than other races (I can think of a few things off-hand that would) and would benefit some of them achieving their focus, there shouldn't be a problem with getting them IG.  Just takes a staffer to do a call, or a character to mastercraft.

As to a dwarven nation...heh.  I think it would be difficult to marshall a nation if half your citizens kept leaving every day because they "had something important to do."  That's why dwarves are easy to enslave (initially).  They don't support each other.  And they aren't idealistic by nature.  They are all out for themselves (by the human way of thinking).

Depends. If so many dwarves have as their focus to "become a badass" then you could certainly convince them that they should become a badass in the defense of the new dwarven nation. And a number of dwarves are going to have as their focus to craft a masterwork stone bowl or something and they'd feel that that could best be done in a fortress surrounded by other dwarves.

So it COULD be done, but I think the staff weigh-in was pretty clear that it won't be supported.

[Jihelu]

The more you inspire other dwarves subconsciously the more I feel like dwarves would be willing to join your cause.
Starting up a huge dwarven village that is trying to be a kingdom is going to put the thought in a dwarfs mind. So even if he completes a focus he might develop one saying "Become a great fighter for the dwarven empire" as a focus.
Or a younger dwarf might start with a focus saying "Join a dwarven empire"
Etc. etc.
I feel like over time you could get dwarves to completely be focused on a tribe or empire.
Otherwise I have no idea how a dwarven tribe would succeed in the first place.

[Desertman]

You would get into issues with playerbase distribution concerns if you tried to build such an empire and started to become successful on that front in any meaningful way.

You would basically be violating the unspoken (until it comes up and is said to you) rule regarding clan cap limits for the health of the overall game.

Five or six dwarves in your "empire"? No problem. But that isn't an empire and isn't going to establish anything meaningful.

20+ dwarves in your empire and you are now going to have some OOC issues in terms of you taking up too much of the playerbase with your unofficial clan.

You would need at least that many in theory to even begin to establish anything long-term and meaningful on the front of a self-preserving and lasting establishment.

It's an odd situation when you run into it.

It's a sort of, "Make the game fun for the people around you, but not so fun that a lot of people show up to take part in it.".