Discussion: Open Letter to the Playerbase

[Majikal]

Hack is bad, unethical, shitty, regardless of the content of the dump it's just a malicious invasion and personal. I'm emotionally invested in the game and thus emotionally invested in the results of someone fucking with what I consider to be my game. What happened has clearly dampened the spirits of the playerbase on either side of this rift, growing the rift wider.

However, I'm entertaining the vague hope that some folks will take a legitimate look at the game, the boards, themselves and step away from team jcarter and rejoin team Armageddon with a goal of growing and maintaining a positive, upbeat community, furthering the success of something we all love/loved.

[LauraMars]

Speaking of wanting to move on... why is this thread sticky?

I have no idea...I don't think I did that. Maybe I hit the button by mistake? Maybe a staff member did it.

.........I don't actually know how to unsticky a thread.

hahahahah

[Beethoven]

I don't know what it means to be in the "in group," but to feel like an outsider (notice that I say "feel like" because I admit it could just be my insecurities leading to this perception) is to feel like all the major GDB posters know each other, and treat each other accordingly, while you're left being treated like a stranger (i.e. who is that person and why do we care what they think?)

I am definitely an insecure person, as any staff here can likely see from my timid, unassertive reports, so I definitely allow for the possibility of it being all in my head.

[Armaddict]

Yeah.

I don't understand the concept of the 'in-group'.

But I will note that they definitely have more of that over there than over here...to the point that it was all 'Welcome!  Welcome!' until you said something pro-staff or pro-game or anti-established-shadowboarder-words...in which case they rabidly attacked said person and tried openly to invalidate said opinion as 'afraid of losing karma', 'gdb community wannabe', 'staff pet', and etc.  It's not like attempts weren't made to bridge the gap and make accomodations.  The 'line to be crossed' was moved back several times for them.

It really was just a forum -designed- to be one thing, but hijacked and turned into another thing entirely due to their stance on lack of regulation and moderation.  Such is the cost.

I, personally, am not troubled by bans over it.  It's not like...people weren't given -ample- space to improve in this matter.  I do not find it petty.  I see it as a direct consequence.  I'm...not sure what any of them expected to happen.  Aside from the idea that they'd one day return atop chariots and rose petals tossed over them, maybe?

[Malken]

I don't know what it means to be in the "in group," but to feel like an outsider (notice that I say "feel like" because I admit it could just be my insecurities leading to this perception) is to feel like all the major GDB posters know each other, and treat each other accordingly, while you're left being treated like a stranger (i.e. who is that person and why do we care what they think?)

I am definitely an insecure person, as any staff here can likely see from my timid, unassertive reports, so I definitely allow for the possibility of it being all in my head.

I've seen your name and hopeandsorrow's often enough that I'd consider you both part of the community, not sure where that feeling of outsiders might come from, again, but it's certainly not the case, I assure you

[Beethoven]

Thank you, Malken I'm sure no one expects to be validated all the time--I certainly don't--but it is nice to hear that.

[Ascrub]

I imagine anyone who got banned might want to revisit the issue after the emotional response dies down, if they're even interested in still playing.

Unfortunately, the people you refer to have often been on an emotional response for a year or longer. The fact that they just can't let go of it after all this time, or continues to play a game where they feel those in charge of it are out to get them, is simply WEIRD and UNHEALTHY.

I think it's healthy for these people, and the game itself, that they have been banned from it.

Meant to post with my main account.

[Akariel]

Speaking of wanting to move on... why is this thread sticky?

I have no idea...I don't think I did that. Maybe I hit the button by mistake? Maybe a staff member did it.

.........I don't actually know how to unsticky a thread.

hahahahah

I unstickied it.

[Armaddict]

...hopeandsorrow, what I think might be the issue in your case, as far as feeling like an outsider?  I could be completely wrong in this matter, but...

Jcarter's forum would have you believe that the behavior they have there, is happening all over the place over here, just behind closed doors.  So basically, you not being in any group from here doing that same sort of discussion was you being an outsider?

That was one of the big harms of that forum that I've talked about.  Such weird bits of misinformation that can have such a big impact on things.  Most of us do not congregate somewhere else and talk about Arm.  I...talk about Arm...on the GDB.  I send occasional PM's to people if I don't want to derail a thread, or if there is something off-topic that I want to talk about.  I think people get pulled into occasional small-time AIM or YIM 'relationships' with people where it waxes and wanes...but largely, this is the main way it works.

The way they were over there is how they wanted it to be.  That's just not how it is here, for a lot different reasons than what you're told.  It's not some club to keep new players down, that's...frankly -preposterous-, yet cited as a universal truth over there.  It's not a deadlock of information to maintain a status quo.  It's not a hazing ritual.  They're jading you before you're even exposed to those few actual instances where it hurts you.

You're already part of what we're part of, man.  You've just been trained to have an expectation of what being part of that is, and it's a false expectation.

[DreadshipCrew]

I have a small understanding of the goings on over the last few days and barely know what the other forum
is (I've even forgotten the name now). I'm a new player, I joined the game earlier this month to play
with a friend. I've had nothing but fun times and been met with warmhearted and helpful players. This
game and it's playerbase, as far as I have experienced it, is lovely.

So, not having a huge idea of what's going on but having read the letter, all I have to say is that the
staff has created a wonderful game and world. It's brought me a great deal of laughs and fun over
the last month and I genuinely hope nothing happens to my new MUD home.

[Large Hero]

I have a small understanding of the goings on over the last few days and barely know what the other forum
is (I've even forgotten the name now). I'm a new player, I joined the game earlier this month to play
with a friend. I've had nothing but fun times and been met with warmhearted and helpful players. This
game and it's playerbase, as far as I have experienced it, is lovely.

So, not having a huge idea of what's going on but having read the letter, all I have to say is that the
staff has created a wonderful game and world. It's brought me a great deal of laughs and fun over
the last month and I genuinely hope nothing happens to my new MUD home.

This is one of the most important posts in the discussion.

[Miradus]

Yes. It is.

[Ammit]

In a strange twist of irony, this is no one's business but the parties that were violated.

As a party whose private information was leaked and was not removed at any stage until such time as the entire wiki was removed, can I post on the subject?

I do see value in discussion and I do not feel that jcarter's forums are an appropriate venue due to the hostility and contempt they show for many staff members, both past and present. I'd also ask those that do not want to partake in this discussion to please not do so and simply avoid the thread. By saying 'this doesn't need discussing' you are creating an atmosphere that shuts down discussion and does make people feel like the only recourse they have is to post their feelings and thoughts on another forum.

So who the hell am I and why should you care? I was a 5 minute storyteller who looked after a few clans, 2/3rds of which are no longer available for play, and worked on project that has since been long abandoned. So my words shouldn't hold any more weight than those words of a fellow player (which I am happy to say I still am), but I have chosen to post as a former staff member rather than a fellow player because my information was leaked so it helps cut through the "only those who were violated should post" mindset.

Why should we care?
My personal information wad actually fairly minimal. I do not feel threatened at this time (although some posters on jcarter's forum have seen fit to try to "out" who staff are whether by guessing or knowing) that anyone will attack me in real life. I do think there is a very real possibility that some posters in jcarter's forum will use the wiki to work out who I am as a player and use that as an excuse to then attack me, and I feel that such a fear is justified given the history of posts over on those forums. However there is no real impact to me directly beyond coloring people's perception of me (whether for good or ill) when I participate in this community.

I care because when I worked on staff I entrusted the staff who remained behind to use my work in good faith and in a way that enhances the game. I also trusted the staff who remained behind to choose successors from the playerbase that would uphold the standards we aspired to. Whether staff have kept that trust is irrelevant. Hacking the Armageddon website and then revealing the work I put into the game in a free for all manner is not what I intended and is not what I consented to. In my view, this is the true violation for me (if only because I had minimal personal information on the wiki).

Furthermore continuing to make a hacked version of Armageddon from 16 years ago really just adds salt to the wound. It also shows that any hack of any kind will continue to have an effect on the game for years to come. How is there an effect? Staff have not participated in this game only to have their time and effort as a staff member so that others could throw it up online and disseminate it freely. I think a minimum of respect for staff, if only as other human beings, should be enough to stop people from disseminating such information by means other than those that were intended by the staff.

Should participants of that forum be banned?
I only know of one banning so far, and that player has shown in his response to the banning to hold a high degree of animosity towards staff. Whether or not it's justified is irrelevant (I'll admit, I certainly felt bad for him when his original collision with staff occurred because his heart did seem to be in the right place, if not his actions). The animosity shown by his response since has made it clear that I would not want to play in the same clan as that person. As for other participants? The forum disseminates IC information OOCly. Unless the policy of staff has changed, participation in that forum is a grounds from being docked karma or banned. The congratulatory statements made on that forum about the hacks makes it clear that even those who didn't perform the deed themselves, many certainly support the person who did. And furthermore, the hosting of the 1999 version of the website and participation of that hosted game should also be grounds for banning.

We can't afford to permaban our community!
The idea of a permaban is ridiculous. I know of no-one (except maybe the Israeli hackers?) who have been permanently banned from the game. There have been players who have done some pretty shitty things with pretty terrible motives who have all been given second, third, fourth chances and more! We have ex-staffers who have left staff, laid out a whole suite of gossip and IC info, shown utter contempt for staff and yet have been permitted to continue playing. I really wish staff would stop using the phrase "permanently banned" because it isn't an accurate reflection of what's occurred.

Is there in jcarter's website and forum?
I think that some players are trying to give the forum value in using it to try to build a bridge between staff and players who are dissatisfied with the current game or the current staff policies. And I commend those people. But when the host of the website is clearly quite hostile towards staff and a number of posters have also shown hostility towards staff (either past and/or present), I think it poisons any efforts at trying to unite the playerbase. While I have no doubt that the forum has had positive changes to staff policies (I do not for sure it has, but I believe it has as a bystander in all this), I think this recent hack and the uploading of the 1999 hacked MUD makes it clear that the website will have no positive place in future discussions with staff. Where blowing off steam occurred on AIM to a handful of other players, it now takes place in the public eye where many more people can jump in validate your hurt feelings and encourage you to remain angry. This is not a value add to the community in my opinion.

My Plea to the Playerbase
I understand that there are people who have felt aggrieved by staff and feel powerless to see a satisfactory resolution to the aggrievement. I do not know what can be done, but I do know that going to an unmoderated forum that does not take any positive action to limit or stop the spreading of hacked information, whether it be the entire MUD or private documentation, is not a venue for which positive change can be actioned from. I don't know what can be done about it, and if people have ideas on what to do I'd encourage them to make new threads where the subject can hopefully be discussed free of the stain of what has occurred on jcarter's forums.

What can we do Moving Forward?
For those who are participants of that forum, I do ask you to stop. Further participation of that forum will help keep it relevant in the community and does not nothing to  ensure that something like this does not happen again. I do ask our fellow participants of these forums, if you do find a thread they you not feel is worthy of discussion, to refrain posting such thoughts in the thread and to instead simply move on. The feeling is that this forum is merely an echo chamber that does nothing but agree with staff and actively tries to stifle any conversation that is not positive. Regardless of whether it's true (I think a cursory look at old threads will show it's not) posting "this doesn't need discussing" or "get over it" or "just move on" certainly feeds into that appearance and helps discourage meaningful conversation.

For my own part, I do not know what I can do to help the community. I will continue to be a player and I will continue to try to be a positive influence as a player. However that's a very small part I play, although I do not know how to have a greater help in the situation of the player/staff divide, which I do feel was being healed up until a portion of jcarter's membership thought it appropriate to host and/or play in a hacked version of the game.

[Delirium]

Case in point, I barely talk to any of you outside my posts on the GDB. But I guess because I'm vocal on the GDB, I'm a cool kid and therefore I must have some mysterious fount of insider connections and !!IC Info!!... and the reality doesn't matter in cases like this - the perception is there and you can't do anything to convince people otherwise if they want to believe it. So all you can really do is shrug, maybe roll your eyes, and move on. There are always going to be people who love to gossip, that will unfortunately never change.

Still, I'd suggest stepping away from the kool-aid fountain and stop believing everything you read. And definitely try not to immediately assume the worst of people's intentions.

Maybe just recognize that while not perfect, this game is still one of the best roleplay experiences out there, and we are all here (hopefully) to have fun, tell stories, amd chop motherfuckers with bone swords. So let's try and leave the gossip and drama IG where it belongs.

Edit: good lord this thread exploded by the time I wrote my post

[hopeandsorrow]

Just FYI I didn't post out of any sense of martyrdom.  I highly doubt I'll see an email or an IP ban, as I've never been a 'problem player'.  I have a history of perhaps whining a bit but besides that my account notes are pretty tame if not, utterly unspectacular.

Yet I felt compelled to say something, because I saw what I can only be described as demonizing a group who ain't all bad, (well except maybe a few).  That the folks who found themselves among jcarter's board of misfits, aren't all griefers, obsessed butt hurt players, despite the few bad apples.  At least in my experience, most of us in the 'shadow speak' or discord 90% of the time we're just cracking jokes about whatever and even some of the GDB's prolific names have found themselves in our little corner of the web.  Though I don't blame them for being entirely turned off by recent events.  Barka's attack help re-polarize the groups involved, for the worse.

I don't hate this community or the GDB, I just never felt a part of it.  Perhaps my own doing, I dunno.  I do know that I did find myself among misfits with a much more relax attitude to the game (At first) and the sharing we did was not plot details and stuff that breaks rule 7.  And more or less tips on how to survive, find a good guild/sub-guild combo, maybe some cultural knowledge and mostly just support for each others endeavors and a good nature ribbing when the time called for it.

What does it mean to be in the in-group??

I think that hopeandsorrow's opinion is just as valid as everyone else and he's more than welcome here, I don't see how/why he should feel like an outsider and I'm not sure why he feels that way (if he does).

To echo Beethoven, it's hard to quantify honestly.  Sometimes it feels like engaging in thread with an opinion differing from a prolific poster, is disastrous.  Sometimes it just feels like your out of the loop in terms of knowledge.  Armageddon has a had player culture uniquely its own and it can appear especially to the not so socially inclined... Daunting.  I think the cliquish feel and nature is simply unconscious consequence of a group of people who after years of playing together are very comfortable with each other. 

It makes the uninitiated, the unfamiliar feel like their outside looking in.  That lacking the GDB cred+ In game prolific status + aim connections... heh, again super hard to quantify because a lot of it based on conjecture and what one perceives and reads between in lines.  Hard to quantify. Again this was before I was a 'misfit'.

I can state with some confidence that it feels if you aren't taking part of the GDB you aren't able to provide your own input and when you're new to the GDB your input can feel like a drop of the bucket when a vet with 10 years under their belt proclaims you are wrong and their reasons states is that their a vet and your wrong.  Some posts can feel like their invalidating you outright because you aren't XYZ.   Whether that's the intent, I dunno, but as it's communicated it can certain come across that way.  That's just a small facet of what can be off putting and make you feel a bit like an outsider.


There's no martyrdom here, at least not with me, but just a little exhausted of "biting my tongue" so to speak when I really just wish things could be different, that both sides could take a chill pill.  That my associations with certain parties doesn't feel like it needs to be a secret, because dude it's highly uncomfortable to mention and I've only dare mentioned it once before.  It's uncomfortable because the tribalism is evident not because of any rule breaking.  I can say with up most confidence, that for a long while it was unspoken that you didn't shit on current plots and that if you were sharing it wasn't suppose to be used ICly.

[Beethoven]

Yikes, I certainly didn't mean it like that, Delirium. I'm sorry if I have inadvertently insulted you. I was not considering any person in particular when I made my remark, and I am very open to being told that it is all in my head, as I have said before. It seems that most people are telling me that it is my imagination so I am willing to accept that.

[Dar]

Heya, Hopeandsorrow.

To be honest. I think the best solution to your feelings of not being on the 'in group' is to just stop using GDB, or jcarter's forum, and just play the game .

There's lots of cliques, or powerful and uber, characters in the game, but they're all mortal and they all eventually die. Nobody's immune. Just a matter of time. Death makes us aaaaaaaall equal. I imagine there are players still out there who barely, if ever participate on the GDB, but play the game all the time.


I'm actually curious to see how this all turns out. I like it how some people in jcarter's forums left in protest of what someone there did. Kudos to them. Fok you to those who voiced their support of the deed. You want to move past this 'dick move' deed? Express your protest. Dont express it cowardly/forced/Oh fine, if you insist type of way like Jeshin did at some conversation with Nergal. Express your protest, leave the group that's supporting the 'dick move' action. Cut ties with it. Express your feelings with your feet. For, or against.

[Ammit]

I don't know what it means to be in the "in group," but to feel like an outsider (notice that I say "feel like" because I admit it could just be my insecurities leading to this perception) is to feel like all the major GDB posters know each other, and treat each other accordingly, while you're left being treated like a stranger (i.e. who is that person and why do we care what they think?)

I am definitely an insecure person, as any staff here can likely see from my timid, unassertive reports, so I definitely allow for the possibility of it being all in my head.

I started on staff back when you got full karma for being a staff member and retained full karma upon leaving staff. I have never played a character whose karma I had not earned as a player and (based on my most recent account notes) there is no mention of the fact I was a staff member on my player account. Furthermore I do not speak with anyone who plays this game on any venue other than this forum.

I have never felt disadvantaged in my dealings with staff and only make mention of my former staff account when I feel doing so disadvantages me (at one time I believe it was staff policy to favor players over ex-staff for certain situations. I could be wrong,, it has been quite a few years since I was a staff member and it may no longer be staff policy).

all I have to say is that the
staff has created a wonderful game and world. It's brought me a great deal of laughs and fun over
the last month and I genuinely hope nothing happens to my new MUD home.

The game has unfortunately been hacked before. "Player"-run "areas for discussion" have appeared at other venues since the game's inception.  This latest event will not have any negative impact on this games longevity and it will continue for many years to come.

Also as a sidenote: This game's greatest asset is it's players. As much as the staff deserve ongoing thanks, so do it's players. Armageddon truly is the greatest hub for in character roleplaying I've ever encountered. And it's only that way because the playerbase makes it so.

I don't hate this community or the GDB, I just never felt a part of it.  Perhaps my own doing, I dunno.  I do know that I did find myself among misfits with a much more relax attitude to the game (At first) and the sharing we did was not plot details and stuff that breaks rule 7.  And more or less tips on how to survive, find a good guild/sub-guild combo, maybe some cultural knowledge and mostly just support for each others endeavors and a good nature ribbing when the time called for it.

I know of nothing in this quote that would have been prohibited by the GDB. If you can identify what about the GDB did make you feel discouraged (regardless of whether such a feeling was rational or not) I highly encourage you to start a new thread so we can help evolve the GDB.

The GDB is an interesting beast. Once upon a time the game had no community forum. It then had a community forum where discussion was limited and eyeballs on any one discussion was also limited. We then have what we have today where participation on the GDB is now mandatory to some degree. I do wonder the value of the GDB and how much influence it has had in retaining members vs driving them away and how we can get the ratio between higher towards player retention. I note I have no data to suggest the GDB does drive people away. Just a gut feeling that some have left as a result of the GDB.

And on that note I'm going to go back to playing!

[evilcabbage]

needlessly baiting/flaming people is stupid.

stop doing it.




i have been a problem player in the past. i try not to be one now. it has so far worked in my favor. it can work for anyone, you just have to want to be a better person to the game.
you have to want to look past certain things, and not get the feeling that you're under attack.

that is the only way you can ever rise above the 'outsider' mentality. it is as easy as just joining in a conversation. your opinion, especially as a new player, is valuable. it's partly because of new players that we have a newbie area, starter shops, things like that. directions command. contact starts at master.

[valeria]

Here I figured that one of Case's friends was friends with the notorious hacker and got caught up in the ban.  Maybe I missed it when I just rapidly scrolled through RAT after taking yesterday off, but I haven't really seen any calls to ban/censure the entire population of the whingers' forums (the only times I've peeked in on conversation over there, it seemed dominated by various people whining about how maltreated they are by staff while being unwilling to actually attempt to address issues with staff because of a perception that staff won't take them seriously which is reinforced by the fact that they don't address the issues and everyone backslaps about how awesome they are for never communicating directly... etc).  Even though most of them are breaking various game rules, regardless of whatever reasons they may have for doing so, I don't think anyone holds that entire community responsible for what happened.

But demonizing the reaction isn't good either.  Staffers are people, and they behave like people when something upsetting has been done to them.  Particularly something as violating as hacking their personal information.  And any expectation that the responsiblepeople saying 'oh we took it down' will make things better is like expecting someone to forgive you for breaking into their house, stealing their TV, and then saying "well I put it back!" 

On the other topic, I think that the perception of the in-group is a lot more prevalent than the presence of an actual in-group.  I'm still waiting for the day I get inducted into it so I can have a shiny veteran ribbon like all of the veterans who have been playing this game since I was in middle school.  Except maybe I'm in the in-group?  I don't know.  I don't feel like it.  I've met a few people IRL and we have some neat photos and good drunk stories, but no one is stopping new players from coming to those publicly-posted meet ups.  Other than that, I don't talk to other players of the game about the game, the ones I've met IRL or not.  Especially not to form super cool cliques in the game (not just because it would be obvious, but also because I'd miss cool opportunities to play opposite people like Beethoven and the nine million other people I've played with/opposite of and loved).  I recognize that there is definitely a dismissive contingent of "I know more than you" or "u so dum" players that make a lot of appearances to shoot down ideas or act like everything pertinent has been discussed and no one ever has anything new to add... but those kind of people exist everywhere.  I largely ignore them.  I don't really know what else to do about them.  And they don't get much traction here because of the anti-trolling rules and the general self-policing the community does.  Which is one of the things I love: compared to the Arm boards, the rest of the internet is a dark and scary place.

That said, it makes me sad when people say they don't feel welcome here.  I don't think that surrounding yourself with negativity is necessarily a good choice, but it isn't my choice to make.  I think talking about why you don't feel welcome might help the rest of us address what isn't exactly welcoming.

[Pale Horse]

Just my 2 cents on the "outsider" mentality and those who feel it:

- It gets better. 

Stepping into Armageddon is like experiencing culture shock; there's so much that's been around for so long that it's become it's own "Little Zalanthas" and it will take some time before you immerse yourself enough to feel like you're part of the "in" crowd and people.  You're going to make mistakes and social/cultural gaffs, you're going to have people who react negatively to it.  How you react and respond are then up to you.  Remind people that you're new and don't know all the ropes or where all the land mines are laid out and to cut you some slack, but remember that accepting and owning up to any mistake you might have made goes a long way, if you in fact made one.

- It's also not just you.

Many threads and posts over the years have shown that new players often feel like the game is "clannish" and hard to break in to.  Elitist, in a way.  Part of that may be those who are "grouped up" simply because they've been around for years with others who have been around for years and feel the most comfortable with what they know.  They don't intentionally want to push you away or make you feel left out, but it can come off that way despite their best intentions. 


Then again, maybe you are experiencing a clique; they do exist, but they exert a disproportionate amount of influence for the few that are in them.

[Insigne]

Still, I'd suggest stepping away from the kool-aid fountain and stop believing everything you read. And definitely try not to immediately assume the worst of people's intentions.

Yes, please.

I think the word 'hack' has been thrown around like it's the worst possible thing that could happen. These things have been happening since the dawn of the internet. It's not going to stop. That doesn't condone the guy's actions, but it doesn't make him or the rest of the group a bunch of malicious villains.

I've only been vaguely following this shitstorm, but am I right to assume the biggest concern is staff's privacy being breached? The intent behind it?

The fact that he took down personal information, past and present, as quickly as he did says something. That the entire wiki has been taken down now does, too. It doesn't seem to me like he did this with some twisted, ill intent, despite his methods, but correct me if I'm wrong.

As unnerving as recent events have been, I think it's important to note moving forward that these guys, or most of them, aren't those ne'er-do-wells you'd think they are. Some of them are jaded, some of them are sticking around for the laughs, some of them are trolls, and some of them just want to enjoy Arm in the way they prefer to. I'm not trying to excuse barka's mistake but that's what it is and was: a mistake.

What I really mean to say is this: There's really no need for bannings or the going after of members who posted on that thread.

I'm still, for the most part, a newbie and not even a terribly consistent player, but my time in Arm has been absolutely splendid. So, in the end, I just hope we can all move on from this.

[LauraMars]

I have been contributing to this game for a long time, and I post a lot (TOO MUCH?).  I can no longer hide behind the label of new player and I guess I am an old veteran now.  That said I hope I have never made anyone feel unwelcome. If it makes hopeandsorrow/beethoven/anyone else feel better I often feel awkward and insecure too, and am too scared to request my account notes (haven't done it in years) because I'm convinced I'm accumulating bad comments at the rate of fifty per day.  Like valeria I am still waiting for my engraved invitation to the in group.

I apologize if I have ever made anyone feel excluded. <3

[Maziel]

I don't think feeling like an outsider and being a problem player are synonymous evilcabbage

I've never been considered a problem player to my knowledge over the past several years, but I'm definitely an outsider on the gdb. I feel like an outsider in most communities I make contact with though. That said, I've definitely witnessed eliticism and cliqueish attitudes that, in combination with heavy handed restrictions/repercussions for expressing ones opinion (if it's too adverse or whatever), contribute to the popularity of the shadowboard. It makes me afraid to post thoughts/criticism.

[BadSkeelz]

There's only about 20-30 "active" users on the GDB. The other forum(s) have similar numbers. We had 250 unique logins last week. The vast majority of players don't care what anyone says on any forum.

Most people here will behave civilly, if at times bluntly.