Let's Plot (split from RAT)

[JackGibbons]

I'm a little confused with:

My constructive plot idea:
STOP.  DYING.

Yes please.

and

• Make enemies with another PC.
• Don't be afraid to lose your character in the pursuit of fun.

[Delirium]

Dying to plot, and dying an avoidable NPC death - two very different things!

[JackGibbons]

Ah, that makes more sense. I had at least six characters of that before I stopped doing that to you clan leader types. I guess at some point there's a hesitancy to give plots to 0 day PCs / new players because of how much it's a dice roll that they'll keep logging in, plus not just go off and get eaten by a spider or something before anything can really get going.

[tinsix]

I guess at some point there's a hesitancy to give plots to 0 day PCs / new players because of how much it's a dice roll that they'll keep logging in, plus not just go off and get eaten by a spider or something before anything can really get going.

Boy is that ever true.

I try to be inclusive but you do eventually start getting tired of roping some chalton-booted guy into your dealings only to never find his mind again.

[valeria]

Skeelz, you're taking that in a way I didn't intend. I'm not saying "pick an enemy, that's the plot," I'm saying don't bee afraid to make enemies. That's intended to be a list of things that (in trying to "win" Armageddon) made me skittish to create and participate in plots. There are some players who legit want people to like their characters.I used to be one. I was better able to make plots when I let that (along with fears of external judgement, character death, and failure) go.

Hope that makes more sense!

[BadSkeelz]

Oh, I don't doubt your ability to make enemies

But I do see people who just seem to be trying so hard to make enemies. That "Make an enemy" is their objective, with little or no reasoning behind it. It mostly just provokes me in to either ignoring them or killing them abruptly, lest they live to cause trouble.

[Jingo]

If I had any faith in the players. I'd be making enemies left and right.

[Jihelu]

I don't know if it is people trying to make enemies but some people are just ass holes.
I love it.
I'll assassinate them later, it'll be a fun time.

[Riev]

My PC has a mortal enemy. They have met once. They have Wayed twice. Thats all it took and i would risk a whole lot to see them bleeding out on the street.

[Jihelu]

A fun plot is just falling in love with someone that it would never be okay/possible to get with.
Like head over heels stalkerish levels of love.
Or try to cut their head off and make a shrine.
That sorta thing

[LauraMars]

Skeelz, you're taking that in a way I didn't intend. I'm not saying "pick an enemy, that's the plot," I'm saying don't be afraid to make enemies. That's intended to be a list of things that (in trying to "win" Armageddon) made me skittish to create and participate in plots. There are some players who legit want people to like their characters. I used to be one. I was better able to make plots when I let that (along with fears of external judgement, character death, and failure) go.

Hope that makes more sense!

This is good advice.  It's a natural human tendency to want to be accepted, survive, and succeed. Rise above this tendency to blend in service to a greater narrative, and you'll be far more able to "win" the game of story. Your characters will be more memorable, your conflicts will be more heart-pounding, your friendships will have more meaning, and with luck, your death will be fantastic.

[Jingo]

My PC has a mortal enemy. They have met once. They have Wayed twice. Thats all it took and i would risk a whole lot to see them bleeding out on the street.

More like. I will smile like a shiteater until I can get them into a backroom.

[Riev]

My PC has a mortal enemy. They have met once. They have Wayed twice. Thats all it took and i would risk a whole lot to see them bleeding out on the street.

More like. I will smile like a shiteater until I can get them into a backroom.

I mean like... if I see them in broad daylight and I don't see a lot of people around? I'll risk it.

[Jingo]

http://gdb.armageddon.org/index.php/topic,31655.25.html

This whole thread is pretty instructive. You want plots? Maybe stop bumping pcs back to chargen? So what if they they arn't 100% polite all the time or are possibly a threat in the extant future.

I see this as a pretty big problem at the moment resulting from a dearth of pc leadership. Nobody seems to know what to do except find players to kill who might sorta-one-day become a threat. And long lived characters seem more intent on maintaining their own sphere in the pc-centric non-virtual world of the game than try to interact with he world as a whole.

[Patuk]

Oh my. That is a good thread.

[Eurynomos]

http://gdb.armageddon.org/index.php/topic,31655.msg362734.html#msg362734

This post, in particular. Some good food for thought.

[BadSkeelz]

I don't think leaders should necessarily kill less. People should kill more leaders.

[CodeMaster]

One of the conundrums in this game is that characters aren't really diminished by punishment.  If anything...


I always thought it would be cool if you could opt to seriously injure someone instead of killing them, giving the player the option to play out a character with 10 hp and poor/below average strength for an IC year or two.  That seems like long enough for the game's conflict state to "reset".  The recipient of the injury could opt in or out, and by opting out would die.

This way templars wouldn't have to kill repeat-offender pickpockets -- they could just brand then and whip them.  Raiders wouldn't have to kill people who ran, they could just beat them to a pulp.  Clans wouldn't have to hunt down and kill deserters, just find them and dole out a life-altering beating.

[Jingo]

Leaders should be far more willing to spare. When kicking someone out of a clan and publicly declaring them incompetent/persona-non-grata is enough of a punishment for 90% of what amount to in-house killings.

But as usual, people just want to win Armageddon.

----

The more I think about it. The more I think that these killings should be poorly kept secrets at best. Someone is bound to notice when a servant/whatever doesn't make it out of a locked room. And since we assume that pc's have no families or any virtual friends that might come asking for them, we take it a blank check that it's fully 100% reasonable. It should also have a chilling effect on npc and vnpc morale.

[FantasyWriter]

Hand-slapping, discouragement, and overlooking betrayal!
Welcome to Armageddon 2016!

[Riev]

Hand-slapping, discouragement, and overlooking betrayal!
Welcome to Armageddon 2016!

Honestly, though, if you don't like someone but don't much care about your hatred? Killing them is fine.

If someone betrayed you. Got you sent to jail. Went behind your back and told your boss you did something wrong... why kill them? Kick them out and tell EVERYONE that they were sleeping with a magicker. Or pay a Noble to insist they were caught trying to sell spice to one of their aides. Something that makes sure they aren't going to work in the city again.

Or, even better, everytime they DO get a job? Offer their boss an exorbitant amount of coin to fire them. Make their life hell. Hire thieves to loot their apartment, find someone to slip them a beer laced with sleepytime meds.

I'm sure the player will HATE it, which unfortunately could lead to hating their PC and leaving, but its so much more interesting than subdue;kill;strip body;go about your business"

[Case]

I don't think leaders should necessarily kill less. People should kill more leaders.

Killing leaders, especially with poor reasons, weak reasons or no reason, contributes tons to reducing interest and progression for their underling PCs in a bad way.

[BadSkeelz]

Killing anyone with poor reasons, weak reasons, or no reasons is bad for everyone.

Leaders who indulge in it are comparatively more damaging to the rest of the game.

[Patuk]

I dunno. I started playing since late march 2012, and I can remember more staff-run noble assassinations than player-initiated ones.

[Case]

I dunno. I started playing since late march 2012, and I can remember more staff-run noble assassinations than player-initiated ones.

Then you're not in the loop tbh. There's been many.