Let's Plot (split from RAT)

[Miradus]

>craft idea 2.idea 3.idea into a viable thread

1. "Help!" says a blue-haired templar. "My personal aide, Miss Hotbottom, has disappeared into the wilderness with some valuables which belong to me. Find out where she went and who she went with, and be the instrument of my vengeance!"

Clues: who was she seen with in the Gaj? Which gate did they leave from? Anything overheard?

2. A dirty, hunchbacked gith approaches you but doesn't immediately attack. He holds out his hands and in it you see a ring bearing the emblem of the Golden Macguffin, the symbol of House Deeppockets, the sole makers of rare and valuable silk undergarments. The gith points to the sky, indicating the movement of the sun, then holds up three fingers. It is clearly communicating that they have a hostage and demand something valuable in return, or else in three days. Who do they hold and what can be done about it?

Clues: Who is missing from the merchant house? Can a scout be found to infiltrate the gith encampment? Will a rival house send out its mercenaries to try to prevent the recovery?

3. A rare and valuable flower is going to bloom during the next conjunction of the three moons. Gemmer SitsTavern needs it for her potion of longevity. Can you fetch it from the secret Grove of Regret? She would certainly pass your name on to her superiors so you could become known as a Reliable Person.

Clues: Where in the heck is the grove of regret? Search the world! Can you brew your own potion of longevity from it and gain extra lifespan, or is it all a myth?

I don't know if these would fall squarely into what is meant by "plots" since some clearly would be driven beyond just player-to-player, but there's a start to a thread.

[Delirium]

Honestly, I'm a bit torn on the need for wilderness-based plots. Rangers (and other PCs who would go out into the wilderness) already have a lot of autonomy and relevance.

Stuff for city-based characters like rogues, merchants, and to an extent, warriors, plots that keep people in an area of civilization, those are the ones we seem weak in.

I mean - party RPTs have their place. But I'd rather be sneaking through a back alley looking for that murderer that tried to shiv Lady Fancypants.

Ideally they would be push-pull type plots. Stuff that starts in one location and leads to the other. Like it starts in the city and leads out into the wilderness or vice versa.

I have always found those to be the most inclusive as they involve different types of players.

Good point. Maybe we should just have a general "plot repository" thread, rather than separating it into wilderness vs city.

I'd hesitate to get too specific in the ideas put forward, though. General ideas for plots would probably be easier to piggyback from so it doesn't feel regurgitated in-game.

[Delirium]

See the original post & discussion here:
http://gdb.armageddon.org/index.php/topic,31255.msg929405.html#msg929405

Some suggestions for this thread:

* Plot ideas should ideally be left open enough that they can be spun in multiple ways
* Keep it positive. No bashing on past or present plots.
* Stay on topic please - this thread is for ideas, the purpose will be diluted if we devolve into debate.

[Miradus]

Can you pull my spinoff into this one?

[Delirium]

My ideas - general

- Plots should be accessible by a wide variety of players.
- More in-city plots that don't require being a ranger or having "buff" skills to participate in.
- Less high-level politics.
- Some of these plots players could accomplish on their own, some staff would need to assist with; but the more autonomous, the better.

Basic Plot Formulas

- lost & found plots
  - Amos lost something for Y reason, and will give X to have it back.
- simple criminal plots
  - some drunk/spiced/crazy person has broken the law, and needs to be found and killed
- vs the world plots
  - some threat has arisen that PCs must band up against (e.g. spiders, undead - this one has been done a lot, care needs to be taken to avoid boring/overpowered enemies)
- resource plots
  - there is something that multiple factions want or need for an ongoing or temporary reason.
  - does not have to be rare or wilderness based - maybe there is a plague outbreak and the cure is an herb that only grows in the sewers.

[LauraMars]

Miradus, I merged your thread into this one, but it looks like since your post was chronologically posted sooner, it became the first post in this thread. I am not sure how to fix that!

[hopeandsorrow]

You know I always wanted to bite the bullet and play the crazy criminal everyone is chasing around.

But I dunno know how to make a meaningful impact with dem skillz, ya know?

I don't wanna train back stab for a few months just to act crazy for a week giving the militia some one to chase.

Hell I'll probably last like an hour before the entire pbase is like "Oh a mother fucker did!"
Former objective "Wish a mother fucker would."
Change objective "Kill the mother fucker who did."

[nauta]

Here's an idea (inspired by hope & sorrow):

OOCly make up a crime and a criminal.  Your character would play the victim.  Put out a bounty, consult the Arm (only to get turned down),  get the pitchforks and torches out.  Bonus points if you run it past staff so they can make an NPC for the plot -- but even if there is no real criminal out there, you'd have stirred things up.

Ditto with getting mugged or raided: emote out a raid up near where you know gith NPCs live.  Wish up to get some damage done to you (or just drop down the shield wall or use tdesc).  Stumble back into town.  Spread the word around town.

[LauraMars]

hopeandsorrow, just do it all with emotes.  I once held up the Gaj with a crossbow with a 0 hour character.  This led to my being arrested and killed IMMEDIATELY.

If you want a little more survivability to play the run and gun criminal you describe, forget stealth skills and backstab, just start your career as a warrior elf. Never underestimate the effectiveness of a newbie warrior with high agility.

But also don't forget to play responsibly and try to make it fun!

[Delirium]

You know I always wanted to bite the bullet and play the crazy criminal everyone is chasing around.

But I dunno know how to make a meaningful impact with dem skillz, ya know?

I don't wanna train back stab for a few months just to act crazy for a week giving the militia some one to chase.

Hell I'll probably last like an hour before the entire pbase is like "Oh a mother fucker did!"
Former objective "Wish a mother fucker would."
Change objective "Kill the mother fucker who did."

Well, the trick is, you wouldn't actually train anything.

Make a temporary character just to inject some interest into the game, as long as it is done with care and quality roleplay to keep things feeling seamlessly in-character.

Maybe the PC you roll up has a bad spice habit, and the particular spice they take has caused extreme paranoia.  You end up causing trouble with the wrong person.

They get to chase you down, you get to be chased. You're twitchy and obviously spiced up. You suffer punishment accordingly. The militia gets to do their job!

The selling point would be that that entire reason for the character would be to lose at their story, for the net win of the entertainment of the playerbase.

[Delirium]

I would hesitate to create plots with entirely "virtual" goals - a virtual criminal to hunt, or a virtual lost thing to find, gives PCs nothing tangible to accomplish.

[Miradus]

Miradus, I merged your thread into this one, but it looks like since your post was chronologically posted sooner, it became the first post in this thread. I am not sure how to fix that!

No need.

Here's another idea.

>/at JoeNPC recho "JoeNPC sneezes. He seems feverish."

>look JoeNPC

He is covered with boils that seem to be spreading.

Find a physician before the plague spreads! Would require at best a couple of imm interactions. Load and string JoeNPC. Animate JoeNPC for a few minutes (he could even die in the street). Echo to someone with high physician/herbalism skills that their herbalism knowledge lets them know that the such and such plant in the remote wilderness of Zen would be a proper preventive for the plague.

Spinoff plots: "Templar says, "There's too many peasants in the city as it is. Have the physician brought to the dungeon where they can make the cure just for us elites."

Or ... "I've always hated desert elves. Let's pay someone to haul that diseased body up to Blackwing and dump it in their well."

[Delirium]

Also, there's no reason a player would need to 'sacrifice' a character to do this - a staff member could probably whip up a few NPCs and give players a merry chase through town for an hour or so. Simple, short-term stuff is fun, in the right dose. Long-term more involved plots are also needed, but the simple stuff keeps you entertained in the meanwhile.

[nauta]

I would hesitate to create plots with entirely "virtual" goals - a virtual criminal to hunt, or a virtual lost thing to find, gives PCs nothing tangible to accomplish.

True.  But there's a thin line between a virtual criminal and a PC criminal that dies the next day to a fall in the rinth. 

The real trick is to combine the coded world with the plot in the right way -- you have to assume little to no staff animation, simply because (a) they could not be around or (b) the parties involved might be dead by the time you get to filing up a report about it.

So, for instance, if you know that NPC gith spawn up a spot (or NPC scorpions), you could spin some story about losing something there, or getting ambushed, or whatever, and the coded world would support you.  Sort of.

That said, I do find coded accomplishments a bit over-rated, but that's just me.  I'd much rather the storyline be interesting more than codedly fulfilling -- but as said: the best ones will do both.

[Marauder Moe]

I don't think most plots need to be widely accessible.  The more people you involve, the more failure points you add, and the less relevent the average role is to the story of the plot.

I think we just need enough plots of differing types to cover all those interested in plots.

Besides, I feel like the relationship between plot size and staff support is not linear.  Therefor it's more efficient to have lots of little plots rather than a few big ones.  (Or more reasonably, one or two big ones and lots of little ones rather than several big ones.)

I think the main problem is coming up with compelling plots for the "lower class" character.  (Staff have much more ease/experience plotting for nobles.)  Hence this thread, I suppose.



P.S. You want to be an unskilled criminal?  Be an information broker that sells lies.  You'll be snapped up in (or creating) plots in no time!  (But then you will probably die at the end of them.)

[Delirium]

Well, hopefully this thread will also give staff some ideas. This isn't just "stuff for players to do" though it certainly serves that purpose as well.

Just gonna leave this here..
http://www222.pair.com/sjohn/blueroom/plots.htm

Honestly I just want to spread out some ideas for plots which aren't necessarily GoT-level complex. This is at its heart an RPG game. So finding new ways to tell the same stories, or finding different stories to tell while we let the old stories cool off, that's the primary challenge. For example, the spider plot was AWESOME. It needed mundanes, it needed mages, it needed people of all walks of life. But if you try to recreate a good thing too many times, it goes stale. You have to give it a break for a while, that's the inevitable nature of storytelling.

Slightly tangential; plots where mages can be included without mundanes breaking character, and vice versa, that is a much trickier beast due to the nature of the documentated gameworld. Still I encourage finding ways for all stratas of the gameworld to remain engaged and interested; there's nothing worse (and arguably, more deadly) than a bored gemmed.

[SuchDragonWow]

Just gonna leave this here..
http://www222.pair.com/sjohn/blueroom/plots.htm

This is a neat resource, so I'll go ahead and post what I found a few weeks ago when I came across a term I hadn't heard, and dug a little deeper.

These are con artist schemes that could perhaps be adapted to Arm:
http://gregorywilson.com/bonus.html

I may have a more useful post later if I get the time.

[Patuk]

If a plot falls in the forest and nobody is around to hear it, did it still fall?

[Eurynomos]

Great ideas on this thread so far. Keep them coming! I like Delirium's guidelines.

[Riev]

I have always wanted to see if a con-man could work in Arm, but one of the FUNDAMENTAL things about being a con-man, is not being recognized.

Which... cannot be done in a universe like Arm. The first person you trick is going to tell everyone you're a fraud and boom, dead character.

What we need more of is PCs that just log in, shovel poop, sweep the streets, come into the gaj and drink, but keep to themselves... until at 10days played they just drop Krath Itself onto Allanak because... cleaning is TOUGH.

[John]

Here's some plots with the idea being to find competent people who can survive in the wild and involve other players:

Buy an expensive piece of jewelry. Be seen wearing the jewelry publicly for a month or two before ceasing to wear said jewelry.

Hire someone to find a "safe area" where they can bury the jewelry.

Announce that criminal so and so has stolen something from you and you're willing to offer a reward for anyone who recovers it. Give a description of the criminal that sounds like an sdesc (e.g. he had broad shoulders and blue eyes) and then include that he was last seen heading in direction that the treasure was sent to. Make sure the reward is more than what could be gained by simply selling the jewelry but not so much that it's more cost effective to simply buy another one.

Wait for half the playerbase to kill themselves and then hire a burglar to go through their apartments and clean them out.

Profit.

Okay, maybe that last bit wasn't really serious. Maybe.

[Coat of Arms]

Fake plots will feel fake and boring. It needs to come from emergent roleplay. When the source of a plot is someone sitting down with a pen going "hmm, what can I come up with that might be fun?" then that would need to be super good in order to be, well, any good. Otherwise it's gonna be a contrived bore that feels janky because it didn't stem from anything real.

Plots will happen if the roleplaying environment is healthy and active. They always have, when it was, and it currently isn't. At least not in Allanak. It's entirely ordinary to be online at peak hours, with 70ish players online, and all three Allanak taverns are empty. Nothing happens. Nobody's around. There's no trace of any activity that can be seen from any neutral perspective. It feels dead as a doornail.

Fix that and the plots will come. Trying to inject artificial plots in a dead roleplaying scene will do nothing.

[Alesan]

Fake plots will feel fake and boring. It needs to come from emergent roleplay. When the source of a plot is someone sitting down with a pen going "hmm, what can I come up with that might be fun?" then that would need to be super good in order to be, well, any good. Otherwise it's gonna be a contrived bore that feels janky because it didn't stem from anything real.

Plots will happen if the roleplaying environment is healthy and active. They always have, when it was, and it currently isn't. At least not in Allanak. It's entirely ordinary to be online at peak hours, with 70ish players online, and all three Allanak taverns are empty. Nothing happens. Nobody's around. There's no trace of any activity that can be seen from any neutral perspective. It feels dead as a doornail.

Fix that and the plots will come. Trying to inject artificial plots in a dead roleplaying scene will do nothing.

+1

[seidhr]

good thread

[Delirium]

Fake plots will feel fake and boring. It needs to come from emergent roleplay. When the source of a plot is someone sitting down with a pen going "hmm, what can I come up with that might be fun?" then that would need to be super good in order to be, well, any good. Otherwise it's gonna be a contrived bore that feels janky because it didn't stem from anything real.

Plots will happen if the roleplaying environment is healthy and active. They always have, when it was, and it currently isn't. At least not in Allanak. It's entirely ordinary to be online at peak hours, with 70ish players online, and all three Allanak taverns are empty. Nothing happens. Nobody's around. There's no trace of any activity that can be seen from any neutral perspective. It feels dead as a doornail.

Fix that and the plots will come. Trying to inject artificial plots in a dead roleplaying scene will do nothing.

I agree with this, to a point - a well-crafted plot will always be welcome, and even the simplest of ideas can be compelling with the right presentation.

As for stagnancy; if the ball isn't rolling, somebody's got to get it moving again. We can't just sit around and say "not my job".

[Coat of Arms]

Right, but it doesn't have to be some Cluedo-style plot. Bringing Allanak back to life isn't accomplished by getting five people to investigate a murder or something to that effect. What happened to arena games and things of that nature? Right now, I don't know if you could get anywhere with a "script plot" because there's hardly anyone around to even get involved. People stay in their clanhalls and apartments because going out in the city has, for such a long time, resulted in absolutely nothing of any sort of interest. That's what needs to change, that's what gets the ball rolling. Then someone can murder Lord Fancypants in the Arboretum with a candlestick, and there might not even need to be a prepared plotline behind it. It might just happen. It used to.

[seidhr]

Alright I'm going to chime in here..  When I see these posts about "bringing Allanak back to life" it really makes me  - I have to be honest here.  I'm the Southlands Admin, which means that I'm in charge of the Southlands clans - essentially the noble houses, the AoD/gemmed, and the Atrium.  (The Byn and Guild are other clan teams' responsibilities, as are people who aren't in a clan)  It wouldn't be accurate to say that I'm in charge of Allanak as all the staff teams have a say in what goes on there, particularly since we're just working on one city-state these days, but suffice to say that I'm in a position to give a fairly informed opinion on what is going on.

While I can't reveal details, obviously, I can say with 100% certainty that there's all kinds of plots rolling in Allanak - right now, involving a variety of different groups.  Nobles, clanned people, unclanned people, you name it.  Could there be more?  Of course!  And if you feel like there's a lack of things to do, then why not be the change?  Get some folks together and start something up.  If you need support from staff we're receptive to this sort of thing.  Alternatively you can wait for a plot to find its way to you, whether it's run by other players or a staff initiative - but in the end you have less control over when or if that will happen, naturally.

I will say that it seems there's been a dip in the "tavern sitting" scene recently.  Is that a bad thing?  I know some people really love to sit around in the Gaj and shoot the breeze, and other people find it boring.

As I mentioned earlier in the thread, I think there is an opportunity to have some healthy discussion about what kind of plots you guys enjoy and how to facilitate them, from both the player and staff angle.

[Coat of Arms]

It's probably easier for you to see since, you know, you can see literally all of it with omniscience.

It has been a few weeks since I saw a templar. I haven't witnessed any animations in months. The taverns are always empty. I don't meet anyone in the city. I don't even see a way to get into any of these plots you're talking about. There's no way in from my direction. I don't meet people, because they don't go out, because nothing happens. It's an absolute snoozefest to play in Allanak, the game's only city, which is kind of awkward. I don't understand what I'm supposed to do. I can barely even find people to interact with.

[wizturbo]

Allanak isn't dead by any means.  The Tablelands event has just drawn off a lot of the independents that typically hang out in the taverns without anything to do.  All of the clans in Allanak are pretty active lately, with some of them actually at their recruiting caps.

I will admit that the rather empty taverns does make it hard for new characters or new players to engage in all of these plots.  Rumor boards can really help with this though, if you're a new character who needs a job, post on the rumor boards that you're seeking work...I bet you'll get multiple responses within a day.  I agree that isn't an ideal scenario though.  Did you manage to make it to the Ocotillo festival?  There were TONS of animations, Templars, nobles, and every other sort of person there.

[Synthesis]

It's probably easier for you to see since, you know, you can see literally all of it with omniscience.

It has been a few weeks since I saw a templar. I haven't witnessed any animations in months. The taverns are always empty. I don't meet anyone in the city. I don't even see a way to get into any of these plots you're talking about. There's no way in from my direction. I don't meet people, because they don't go out, because nothing happens. It's an absolute snoozefest to play in Allanak, the game's only city, which is kind of awkward. I don't understand what I'm supposed to do. I can barely even find people to interact with.

You're posting at like...0030-0330 on a Tuesday morning in the U.S. and wondering why people aren't online?

Well...it's because most players are in the United States, and most people in the United States are asleep.

Welcome to off-peak hell.

[John]

Welcome to off-peak hell.

There are 21 people online! This aint off peak hell!

I have seen both templars, aides, Salarri and byn sergeants online at this time. It's a really good time to be an off peaker and I'm seriously tempted to make a clanned character with my next one.

The taverns are dead though. And this historically has been a barometer for how active a given area is. People are just avoiding taverns. If you're bored, find an excuse to join a clan and start cold-contacting people over the Way.

[Coat of Arms]

You're posting at like...0030-0330 on a Tuesday morning in the U.S. and wondering why people aren't online?

Well...it's because most players are in the United States, and most people in the United States are asleep.

Welcome to off-peak hell.

Which part of my post implies that I'm talking about this very moment exclusively? In fact, I expressly didn't. I'm not even online now, because they're not my playing hours. I'm talking about the entire time that I've had by current Allanaki commoner character, in which I have seen absolutely nothing whatsoever that I could get involved with, nothing that looks like it even has anything to get involved with, and can rarely find anybody to interact with even during peak hours. I specifically talk about peak hours, and a period of weeks. I don't know how that led you to the impression that I'm talking about off-peak hours and only just now. It's like you tried your hardest to misinterpret my point for the sake of being contrary and condescending.

[Synthesis]

You're posting at like...0030-0330 on a Tuesday morning in the U.S. and wondering why people aren't online?

Well...it's because most players are in the United States, and most people in the United States are asleep.

Welcome to off-peak hell.

Which part of my post implies that I'm talking about this very moment exclusively? In fact, I expressly didn't. I'm not even online now, because they're not my playing hours. I'm talking about the entire time that I've had by current Allanaki commoner character, in which I have seen absolutely nothing whatsoever that I could get involved with, nothing that looks like it even has anything to get involved with, and can rarely find anybody to interact with even during peak hours. I specifically talk about peak hours, and a period of weeks. I don't know how that led you to the impression that I'm talking about off-peak hours and only just now. It's like you tried your hardest to misinterpret my point for the sake of being contrary and condescending.

It's like you tried your hardest to misinterpret my point for the sake of being butt-hurt.

By which I mean to say I was being sympathetic to someone else with a similar plight, not being condescending.  Until you decided to be a little whiner about it.  Now I'm being condescending.

[Synthesis]

Welcome to off-peak hell.

There are 21 people online! This aint off peak hell!

I have seen both templars, aides, Salarri and byn sergeants online at this time. It's a really good time to be an off peaker and I'm seriously tempted to make a clanned character with my next one.

The taverns are dead though. And this historically has been a barometer for how active a given area is. People are just avoiding taverns. If you're bored, find an excuse to join a clan and start cold-contacting people over the Way.

Of the 21 people online, half just haven't got the memo that peak time is over, and they should quit already.

I personally hate hanging out in taverns these days, because it's become so much easier for thieves to do their business that I'm habitually paranoid about my inventory when I'm not locked in my apartment or out in the desert somewhere.  Not that my meager loot is irreplaceable or anything, but replacing it is kind of fucking annoying.

[BadSkeelz]

Giving Coat of Arms the benefit of the doubt, sometimes things just get in to a sort of rhythm that can make breaking in to the established city life difficult. Like all the clans are full, sponsored roles are busy with their minions, currently-running plots don't allow for a lot of downtime or recruitment. That sort of thing. I had a PC that people thought had stored for months or years, simply because I was so busy with the inner-compound clan life that I didn't have a lot of time to be on the streets.

My advice is to keep trying, and try aggressively. Think what kind of employment you would like for your character, find some names in the rumor posts (or maybe ask staff for a bit of help in a character report, if you're finding yourself completely lost) and start aggressively Waying people. Get your name out there. Let sponsored roles know you are a warm body who can string a sentence together and have some interest in the role. That's like, 3 out of 5 excellent minion qualities right there.

Maybe also manufacture some interactions. If you commit a crime and get arrested at peak time, you'll probably run into a Templar or Arm soldier.

[solera]

It's a pity if the Gaj is empty. When I play outdoorsy or Byn, I tried to discipline myself to get to a bar at night time.
Of course, the bars in Allanak are so far from folks that don't live above the Gaj..... Unlike Tuluk!!

[Vwest]

It's probably easier for you to see since, you know, you can see literally all of it with omniscience.

It has been a few weeks since I saw a templar. I haven't witnessed any animations in months. The taverns are always empty. I don't meet anyone in the city. I don't even see a way to get into any of these plots you're talking about. There's no way in from my direction. I don't meet people, because they don't go out, because nothing happens. It's an absolute snoozefest to play in Allanak, the game's only city, which is kind of awkward. I don't understand what I'm supposed to do. I can barely even find people to interact with.

The dynamic in Allanak has changed a lot in the last several weeks and in my opinion, you need to join a clan or get into the independent circles if you want to see some action. The clans are now getting populated enough to be insular and it's around there that political alliances and related things start to come into effect; These people no longer need to sit in the Gaj for interaction when they can hang out with clannies / allied clannies and work towards their own ends in a more consistent manner.

The independent circle is always a state of flux and if you're going to be one, you're going to have to get used to there being (sometimes long) periods where you're bumming around without a lot to do. It can be literal months on end where there is nothing going on, but then you hit a string of action that lasts the better part of a year.

Joining a clan is the easy route to having people to hang out with and things to do. If you're an independent, it depends wholly on your personal savvy and being at the right place at the right time.

Whatever route you choose, there is plenty going on.

Purely as a stepping stone, I'd suggest looking at the T'zai Byn or Kurac to get involved at a ground level and get your PCs name and face recognized. Being noticed as someone who can keep a PC alive (especially in the T'zai Byn) for a basic game year will make you much more appealing to people looking for meat to fuel their plot machine.

[LauraMars]

UGH WHY CANT I SLEEP! Was it the grilled cheese sandwich I ate at two am? It was, wasn't it. Anyway, Coat of Arms, I hear you about the empty taverns thing and I'm sorry you're having a tough time. I will try harder to get out there and mingle more, myself.

That said, this thread has a specific purpose, and we're straying from it. Can we stay on topic please, and follow the guidelines posted on page one regarding attitude and content? Let's generate some plot ideas.

[QuillDipper]

I've always wanted a big dumb race to happen. Like, from 'Nak to the northern edge of the Known and back. Get a bunch of clans and indies in on it, tell them there won't be any refs and murders fine outside the walls, and let 'er rip. Make sure there's a big prize too.

[evilcabbage]

a race

would actually be an amazing idea.

i would love to see that.

[seidhr]

3am game time, if that's when you play, it's a weird time of night.

I had a pretty active crew of d-elves I ran with once who played at all odd hours of the night, there were only 4-5 of us, but it made the world really come alive.  At that time of night in particular, you're going to have to get into one of those groups to have much interaction.  Not sure what time zone you're in, Coat of Arms, but it's tough.  Being an American I've never had to deal with off-peak but people who do it always struggle a bit more, seems like.

As for Allanak we've got 3 active templars and a pretty full stable of nobles, as well as Atrium clan leaders.  There are clans out there that are doing stuff (and the Byn, and the Guild) - as someone mentioned it's one way to try to get involved, assuming you can find someone to link up with.

[Coat of Arms]

Jesus, forget it. Apparently because I posted at 3AM, I must be talking only about that specific timestamp whenever I say anything about the game, no matter how many times I point out that I'm not. I'm sure Allanak is explosively active and filled to the point of bursting with all sorts of accessible and visible plots, I'm just not good enough at the game or something. Carry on.

[JackGibbons]

3am game time, if that's when you play, it's a weird time of night.

I had a pretty active crew of d-elves I ran with once who played at all odd hours of the night, there were only 4-5 of us, but it made the world really come alive.  At that time of night in particular, you're going to have to get into one of those groups to have much interaction.  Not sure what time zone you're in, Coat of Arms, but it's tough.  Being an American I've never had to deal with off-peak but people who do it always struggle a bit more, seems like.

As for Allanak we've got 3 active templars and a pretty full stable of nobles, as well as Atrium clan leaders.  There are clans out there that are doing stuff (and the Byn, and the Guild) - as someone mentioned it's one way to try to get involved, assuming you can find someone to link up with.

I think the finding can be part of the problem when you're just getting started. I haven't seen most of the nobles or Atrium people since the Festival (which was awesome). I think the Atrium is a RP hub but only for those clanned to get into it. One option to break into this would be to go sit in the Arboretum which sometimes gets that activity (especially targeting leave days), but that's not always wise for certain backgrounds and types, and the Atrium folks don't go to the Gaj.

I don't mean this to be in any way a criticism of the people who are in that set, just that I too can be mystified about the 3 main taverns in Nak being empty while there are 40+ people online, and I chalk it up to possibly the Atrium that can't be checked or the Tablelands events. I hope we see more events like the Festival (or smaller ones!) for people who like to interact with this crowd.

Byn is also very active from what I've seen, but busy. I can't recommend enough checking the taverns specifically on IC leave days. Otherwise 30 minutes of night minus walking is a hard target to match to find people. Not sure if we can discuss here which IC days are leave days, but I guess I'm taking a tangent from the topic anyway.

[RogueGunslinger]

Why can't we just post where to get the plots? Note the following are examples, and not indicative of the current game.

"Having trouble getting interaction? I know that during your playtime's Salarr is very active, so try them! Want to do some crime shit? Well, guess what there's currently a good crew of elves going eastside, try that out."

Why can't we do that?

[Synthesis]

My constructive plot idea:

STOP.  DYING.

[nauta]

Why can't we just post where to get the plots? Note the following are examples, and not indicative of the current game.

"Having trouble getting interaction? I know that during your playtime's Salarr is very active, so try them! Want to do some crime shit? Well, guess what there's currently a good crew of elves going eastside, try that out."

Why can't we do that?

In a sense, we can: rumour boards.  These are so useful.  I've sung their praises before, but let me do it again:

o As a new player, I devoured rumour boards.  They gave me a sense that something was going on, and that I was just a small part of it, or even when not, that there was a buzz going on, things out there.

o If you want to seed your own plots, rumour boards are a great way to do that.

o If you want to spread a plot to a bunch of different groups, rumour boards are a great way to do it.

o Rumour board posts can be 'atmospheric' -- this is more staff-only but a good post about how everyone in town is on edge because of hushed rumours of whatever whatever -really- help set the atmosphere, and when done right, we can pick up on that in our own roleplay and roll with it.

o So too if you want to hint that there's a new gang eastside, or that Salarr is the place to be: dump some rumours on the rumour boards, get the buzz happening.

To tie it back into the main op and intent of the thread:

When designing a plot, keep in mind the limitations and opportunities of the medium: we have the way, so certain plots won't work, for instance.  The rumour board is an (in my view) underused opportunity.

[BadSkeelz]

Why can't we just post where to get the plots? Note the following are examples, and not indicative of the current game.

"Having trouble getting interaction? I know that during your playtime's Salarr is very active, so try them! Want to do some crime shit? Well, guess what there's currently a good crew of elves going eastside, try that out."

Why can't we do that?

Ehhhh, I guess it removes some of the mystery? It also might preemptively expose players. If "that guy" asks on the GDB what's cooking, and we tell him Salarr, the players behind the Salarr PCs might be leery of all PCs approaching them in case they're "that guy." I'd prefer characters be judged on their in-game merits.

I would have nothing against Staff telling you "X clan is active right now "through a character request, however.

rumour boards.  These are so useful.

+1

[nauta]

I'd like to figure a way to get two kinds of plots working -- I've seen them kind of work.

1. Twin Plots.  Think here all those Shakespear twin switcheroo plots.  This would probably require a family roll call or staff assistance, although you can certainly go around pretending to be your twin, if people play along.

2. Quixotic Quests.  I'm not talking about dwarves.  Pick something (it can be virtual at first and if it takes off maybe staff will make it real) -- e.g., kiyet lions, the ring of Balthuzzar, etc. -- and try to find it.  It works best if everyone thinks you are crazy.  It works even better if you can show tangible results that make them think: both crazy and maybe on to something?

[valeria]

My constructive plot idea:

STOP.  DYING.

Yes please. Nothing was more harmful to my plots than the deaths or storages of minions. But such is Arm.

I see nothing wrong with players running smaller, quest-like plots. Nobody is forcing anyone else to participate.

Hell, I had a Tuluki noble who basically did that. People like to have things to work on. And sometimes, the small things turn into much larger plots.

My best advice on how to plot:

• Make enemies with another PC.
• Don't be afraid to lose your character in the pursuit of fun.
• Don't let people discourage you because something is "too small" or "gets done all the time."
  

Big plots, little plots, doesn't matter. If you start making things happen like you just don't care, people will come.

[BadSkeelz]

My best advice on how to plot:

• Make enemies with another PC.
• Don't be afraid to lose your character in the pursuit of fun.
• Don't let people discourage you because something is "too small" or "gets done all the time."
  

Big plots, little plots, doesn't matter. If you start making things happen like you just don't care, people will come.

All a plot really is is a goal that players work towards. Set goals for your character (especially ones that would require working with other characters to achieve) and plots will follow.

Which leads me to a point I want to make about one of Valeria's points....

• Make enemies with another PC.

It's really easy for these plots to come across as forced or contrived if you simply decide to make an enemy of someone. Try and set goals that might be counter to other characters goals, or that other characters stand in the way of you achieving. Make enemies naturally through competition. Don't just roll in to the world, pick a "sensible foe" (rival merchant or noble house, gickers, breeds, sharps) and announce to them "We are enemies, you and I." This is Zalanthas. Our characters should have bigger problems (like fighting dinosaurs or finding water) than starting shit for the sake of starting shit.

[JackGibbons]

I'm a little confused with:

My constructive plot idea:
STOP.  DYING.

Yes please.

and

• Make enemies with another PC.
• Don't be afraid to lose your character in the pursuit of fun.

[Delirium]

Dying to plot, and dying an avoidable NPC death - two very different things!

[JackGibbons]

Ah, that makes more sense. I had at least six characters of that before I stopped doing that to you clan leader types. I guess at some point there's a hesitancy to give plots to 0 day PCs / new players because of how much it's a dice roll that they'll keep logging in, plus not just go off and get eaten by a spider or something before anything can really get going.

[tinsix]

I guess at some point there's a hesitancy to give plots to 0 day PCs / new players because of how much it's a dice roll that they'll keep logging in, plus not just go off and get eaten by a spider or something before anything can really get going.

Boy is that ever true.

I try to be inclusive but you do eventually start getting tired of roping some chalton-booted guy into your dealings only to never find his mind again.

[valeria]

Skeelz, you're taking that in a way I didn't intend. I'm not saying "pick an enemy, that's the plot," I'm saying don't bee afraid to make enemies. That's intended to be a list of things that (in trying to "win" Armageddon) made me skittish to create and participate in plots. There are some players who legit want people to like their characters.I used to be one. I was better able to make plots when I let that (along with fears of external judgement, character death, and failure) go.

Hope that makes more sense!

[BadSkeelz]

Oh, I don't doubt your ability to make enemies

But I do see people who just seem to be trying so hard to make enemies. That "Make an enemy" is their objective, with little or no reasoning behind it. It mostly just provokes me in to either ignoring them or killing them abruptly, lest they live to cause trouble.

[Jingo]

If I had any faith in the players. I'd be making enemies left and right.

[Jihelu]

I don't know if it is people trying to make enemies but some people are just ass holes.
I love it.
I'll assassinate them later, it'll be a fun time.

[Riev]

My PC has a mortal enemy. They have met once. They have Wayed twice. Thats all it took and i would risk a whole lot to see them bleeding out on the street.

[Jihelu]

A fun plot is just falling in love with someone that it would never be okay/possible to get with.
Like head over heels stalkerish levels of love.
Or try to cut their head off and make a shrine.
That sorta thing

[LauraMars]

Skeelz, you're taking that in a way I didn't intend. I'm not saying "pick an enemy, that's the plot," I'm saying don't be afraid to make enemies. That's intended to be a list of things that (in trying to "win" Armageddon) made me skittish to create and participate in plots. There are some players who legit want people to like their characters. I used to be one. I was better able to make plots when I let that (along with fears of external judgement, character death, and failure) go.

Hope that makes more sense!

This is good advice.  It's a natural human tendency to want to be accepted, survive, and succeed. Rise above this tendency to blend in service to a greater narrative, and you'll be far more able to "win" the game of story. Your characters will be more memorable, your conflicts will be more heart-pounding, your friendships will have more meaning, and with luck, your death will be fantastic.

[Jingo]

My PC has a mortal enemy. They have met once. They have Wayed twice. Thats all it took and i would risk a whole lot to see them bleeding out on the street.

More like. I will smile like a shiteater until I can get them into a backroom.

[Riev]

My PC has a mortal enemy. They have met once. They have Wayed twice. Thats all it took and i would risk a whole lot to see them bleeding out on the street.

More like. I will smile like a shiteater until I can get them into a backroom.

I mean like... if I see them in broad daylight and I don't see a lot of people around? I'll risk it.

[Jingo]

http://gdb.armageddon.org/index.php/topic,31655.25.html

This whole thread is pretty instructive. You want plots? Maybe stop bumping pcs back to chargen? So what if they they arn't 100% polite all the time or are possibly a threat in the extant future.

I see this as a pretty big problem at the moment resulting from a dearth of pc leadership. Nobody seems to know what to do except find players to kill who might sorta-one-day become a threat. And long lived characters seem more intent on maintaining their own sphere in the pc-centric non-virtual world of the game than try to interact with he world as a whole.

[Patuk]

Oh my. That is a good thread.

[Eurynomos]

http://gdb.armageddon.org/index.php/topic,31655.msg362734.html#msg362734

This post, in particular. Some good food for thought.

[BadSkeelz]

I don't think leaders should necessarily kill less. People should kill more leaders.

[CodeMaster]

One of the conundrums in this game is that characters aren't really diminished by punishment.  If anything...


I always thought it would be cool if you could opt to seriously injure someone instead of killing them, giving the player the option to play out a character with 10 hp and poor/below average strength for an IC year or two.  That seems like long enough for the game's conflict state to "reset".  The recipient of the injury could opt in or out, and by opting out would die.

This way templars wouldn't have to kill repeat-offender pickpockets -- they could just brand then and whip them.  Raiders wouldn't have to kill people who ran, they could just beat them to a pulp.  Clans wouldn't have to hunt down and kill deserters, just find them and dole out a life-altering beating.

[Jingo]

Leaders should be far more willing to spare. When kicking someone out of a clan and publicly declaring them incompetent/persona-non-grata is enough of a punishment for 90% of what amount to in-house killings.

But as usual, people just want to win Armageddon.

----

The more I think about it. The more I think that these killings should be poorly kept secrets at best. Someone is bound to notice when a servant/whatever doesn't make it out of a locked room. And since we assume that pc's have no families or any virtual friends that might come asking for them, we take it a blank check that it's fully 100% reasonable. It should also have a chilling effect on npc and vnpc morale.

[FantasyWriter]

Hand-slapping, discouragement, and overlooking betrayal!
Welcome to Armageddon 2016!

[Riev]

Hand-slapping, discouragement, and overlooking betrayal!
Welcome to Armageddon 2016!

Honestly, though, if you don't like someone but don't much care about your hatred? Killing them is fine.

If someone betrayed you. Got you sent to jail. Went behind your back and told your boss you did something wrong... why kill them? Kick them out and tell EVERYONE that they were sleeping with a magicker. Or pay a Noble to insist they were caught trying to sell spice to one of their aides. Something that makes sure they aren't going to work in the city again.

Or, even better, everytime they DO get a job? Offer their boss an exorbitant amount of coin to fire them. Make their life hell. Hire thieves to loot their apartment, find someone to slip them a beer laced with sleepytime meds.

I'm sure the player will HATE it, which unfortunately could lead to hating their PC and leaving, but its so much more interesting than subdue;kill;strip body;go about your business"

[Case]

I don't think leaders should necessarily kill less. People should kill more leaders.

Killing leaders, especially with poor reasons, weak reasons or no reason, contributes tons to reducing interest and progression for their underling PCs in a bad way.

[BadSkeelz]

Killing anyone with poor reasons, weak reasons, or no reasons is bad for everyone.

Leaders who indulge in it are comparatively more damaging to the rest of the game.

[Patuk]

I dunno. I started playing since late march 2012, and I can remember more staff-run noble assassinations than player-initiated ones.

[Case]

I dunno. I started playing since late march 2012, and I can remember more staff-run noble assassinations than player-initiated ones.

Then you're not in the loop tbh. There's been many.

[Case]

Killing anyone with poor reasons, weak reasons, or no reasons is bad for everyone.

Leaders who indulge in it are comparatively more damaging to the rest of the game.

Some deaths are necessary, but I agree. Death should be last resort or after many warnings.

[Patuk]

It kinda ties in to this:

The more I think about it. The more I think that these killings should be poorly kept secrets at best. Someone is bound to notice when a servant/whatever doesn't make it out of a locked room. And since we assume that pc's have no families or any virtual friends that might come asking for them, we take it a blank check that it's fully 100% reasonable. It should also have a chilling effect on npc and vnpc morale.

A noble's death is hardly cause for a public day of mourning or somesuch, but it is something that'd cause a city to gossip a bunch.

[Pale Horse]

Killing anyone with poor reasons, weak reasons, or no reasons is bad for everyone.

Leaders who indulge in it are comparatively more damaging to the rest of the game.

Some deaths are necessary, but I agree. Death should be last resort or after many warnings.

Death should be a release, not a punishment.

Burn the insolence out of their eyes!