Armageddon is Zero Sum

[Desertman]

While I do not talk about the game OOC'ly with anyone, I have been part of what I would consider IC cliques I suppose.

It is incredibly easy for me personally to spot the guy who has played my underling four times in a row and is coming back to be underling number five. (I've also had people come back to play my enemy multiple times. That is also obvious.)

While it isn't arranged OOC, and I know they are doing it just because they enjoy playing with me, I'm not sure how -bad- it is.

I don't treat them any differently. If they fuck up, they get shit on. If they don't, they get treated like every other underling of mine that comes along, gets hired, and gets put to work.

I've never once arranged anyone to "join" me in game for anything I've ever done outside of some really corny stints 15+ years ago involving some RL friends I was introducing to the game. (Which I would argue was me trying to get new players, not actual meaningful allies that would get me anywhere IC.)

While I can absolutely see frowning on some groups that are obviously only playing together because they are OOC'ly arranging it, we should be careful not to frown on people who "just enjoy playing with someone".

If someone is playing an awesome Kuraci Sergeant and you have played two other Kuracis under them and that leader is still alive and you want to play a third underling, go ahead. It is a game. It is supposed to be fun. If that leader is making things fun for you, go play with them again if you want.

If someone is playing an awesome rinther that you love being around, play with them over the course of a few characters if you keep getting dead. Just try to make it not obvious who you used to play. It's a game. Enjoy yourself.

So long as you aren't breaking the rules surrounding OOC communication I don't think you should be hindered from playing where and with who you want so long as you have an IC reason to do so.

It's a game. It's not a chore and it's not a job.

Follow the rules, and have your fun within the scope of those rules.

Anything beyond that is just people trying to dictate you to their preferences and that is not the same as breaking the rules.

(While I enjoy getting -new- people, I never had a single issue come up with people I knew who were coming back to play multiple underlings with me. Some of them even betrayed me with new characters when their past characters were loyal as could be hehe.)

[Nergal]

While it isn't arranged OOC, and I know they are doing it just because they enjoy playing with me, I'm not sure how -bad- it is.

It isn't bad at all.

[Delirium]

Rule of thumb I follow: take everything IC. Assume everything is legit.

Even if it seems obvious that it's OOC collusion, I don't have a magic wand to know the truth behind any scenario I'm in.

So we may as well assume the best unless proven otherwise, because going down the road of guilty until proven innocent just leads to a toxic, accusatory environment.

[RogueGunslinger]

Amen, D.

[Armaddict]

It's a closed community.  We've been closing clans.  We've been closing play areas.  We've been pushing things together.  People are bound to set up in similar circles as they were before, purely out of lack of options/variety within their desired state of gameplay.

Not to say collusion doesn't exist.  But people seem fairly quick to jump to things being a 'cut and dry case' where it's really not.

[Jingo]

Rule of thumb I follow: take everything IC. Assume everything is legit.

Even if it seems obvious that it's OOC collusion, I don't have a magic wand to know the truth behind any scenario I'm in.

So we may as well assume the best unless proven otherwise, because going down the road of guilty until proven innocent just leads to a toxic, accusatory environment.

There's a lot to be said about call out culture. There's also a lot to be said about a permissive culture that overlooks certain forms of abuse.

I think the solution is to challenge players to play better without personally judging them in public.

[Delirium]

Rule of thumb I follow: take everything IC. Assume everything is legit.

Even if it seems obvious that it's OOC collusion, I don't have a magic wand to know the truth behind any scenario I'm in.

So we may as well assume the best unless proven otherwise, because going down the road of guilty until proven innocent just leads to a toxic, accusatory environment.

There's a lot to be said about call out culture. There's also a lot to be said about a permissive culture that overlooks certain forms of abuse.

I think the solution is to challenge players to play better without personally judging them in public.

I agree with that.

Still, pushing forward and seeming to condone a culture of cyncisim and paranoia seems ill-advised at best. Do you want witch hunts? That's how you get witch hunts.

I'd rather be more worried about whether people are having fun in keeping with the spirit of the game. It's a fine line but a very important one.

[BadSkeelz]

All players are shit until proven otherwise. And they'll probably still do something shitty if you put them in the right situation ("Shitsuation").

If you feel uncomfortable about people discussing shitplay, it's probably because you do it. I know that feeling, it's alright to admit it to yourself and try and do better.

[evilcabbage]

i try to assume the better of people.