Changes made to how offense, defense, weapon proficiency, and twohanded increase

[Synthesis]

-Changes made to how offense, defense, weapon proficiency, and two handed increase

GET HYPE

[The Silence of the Erdlus]

I foresee some real badasses in the near future now.

[Asmoth]

-Changes made to how offense, defense, weapon proficiency, and two handed increase

GET HYPE

Hopefully they've made it raise faster on guilds other than warrior.  I had a bitch of a time on every magicker getting it up to even usable levels against wildlife.

[Malken]

-Changes made to how offense, defense, weapon proficiency, and two handed increase

GET HYPE

Hopefully they've made it raise faster on guilds other than warrior.  I had a bitch of a time on every magicker getting it up to even usable levels against wildlife.

Death by goudra gang-rape is a classic way for any 'gikers to perish.

[Ender]

-Changes made to how offense, defense, weapon proficiency, and two handed increase

GET HYPE

RIP Turaal University's School of the Only Way to Improve Weapon Skills... maybe finally?

[Dresan]

-Changes made to how offense, defense, weapon proficiency, and two handed increase

I know someone is asking in ask the staff, but I feel this might deserve its own thread. Since it doesn't seem like a small change either, even though the excitment over subguilds are clearly overshadowing it. What does this mean exactly?

Thanks. 

[Synthesis]

My bet is that someone finally took a look at it and realized that parries and/or blocks don't count as failures, as was(?) intended.

[Malken]

Staff finally stuck with playing a mundane class for longer than a month CONFIRMED!

[Nergal]

You are more likely to gain in the listed skills if the opponent you're failing against is more skilled at fighting than you are.

[Asanadas]

 

Uh...?

I mean it's a good change but I was hoping it was something else.

[Nergal]

-Changes made to how offense, defense, weapon proficiency, and two handed increase

GET HYPE

RIP Turaal University's School of the Only Way to Improve Weapon Skills... maybe finally?

I think it's safe to say their accreditation has been revoked.

[Delirium]

You are more likely to gain in the listed skills if the opponent you're failing against is more skilled at fighting than you are.

I hope there is still a chance if they aren't. Because well... what about subject zero? Where does the "master" get the skills to teach the newbies?

What about getting better than the one who taught you? Tried and true movie trope. Be sad to see it go.

(Good to see Turaal and Stilt Lizard School go by the wayside though.)

[Vositus]

You are more likely to gain in the listed skills if the opponent you're failing against is more skilled at fighting than you are.

Oh.

I thought this was already the case. Mind blown.

Does this mean fighting your equal won't raise your skills at all, or just very slowly?

[Nergal]

I hope there is still a chance if they aren't.

Yes, there still is.

Does this mean fighting your equal won't raise your skills at all, or just very slowly?

It will work the same as it does now, in that case.

[najdorf]

You are more likely to gain in the listed skills if the opponent you're failing against is more skilled at fighting than you are.

ok, I'll ask it.
more skilled at fighting in general (offense, defense, some weird score I don't know) , or more skilled at the specific skill?

[Nergal]

At fighting in general.

[Delirium]

I'm confused. But... glad to see it worked on!

[Malken]

I think we were all hoping that it meant that you now had a chance to raise your offense, defense, weapon proficiency, and two handed skills even if you didn't fail at it.

If that's not the case, I don't see how stilt lizards are now useless.

[Jingo]

This makes clan sparring relevant now at least.

[Dresan]

Only if there is someone there better than you. Which unfortunately isn't always the case and the reason skills plateau at a certain level anyways, you are surrounded by new characters you can't really train properly on without killing.

[Jingo]

If there is nobody better than you, then you're already at the top of the heap, no?

[Nergal]

I think we were all hoping that it meant that you now had a chance to raise your offense, defense, weapon proficiency, and two handed skills even if you didn't fail at it.

If that's not the case, I don't see how stilt lizards are now useless.

Stilt lizards are useless to someone who is good at fighting a stilt lizard in a similar way to how a sparring dummy is useless to someone who is good at fighting a sparring dummy.

This makes clan sparring relevant now at least.

Yes, that was one of the points of this change.

Only if there is someone there better than you. Which unfortunately isn't always the case and the reason skills plateau at a certain level anyways, you are surrounded by new characters you can't really train properly on without killing.

Gaining skill against a peer is still possible. Gaining skill against someone not as skilled as you is still possible. The change is meant to eliminate the "plateau" through challenging oneself rather than simple luck/grinding.

[Asanadas]

If there is nobody better than you, then you're already at the top of the heap, no?

Yeah, until one-punch man walks out of the desert with the blood of stilt lizards dripping from his bone gauntlets as he wipes your entire clan.

Which has happened at least once in Arm history. Hi Red Fangs?

[Jingo]

If there is nobody better than you, then you're already at the top of the heap, no?

Yeah, until one-punch man walks out of the desert with the blood of stilt lizards dripping from his bone gauntlets as he wipes your entire clan.

Which has happened at least once in Arm history. Hi Red Fangs?

I guess you should spar that guy then.

I'm pretty sure staff are keenly aware of the stilt lizard situation.

[Asanadas]

I guess you should spar that guy then.

Good luck!

[hyzhenhok]

Gaining skill against a peer is still possible. Gaining skill against someone not as skilled as you is still possible. The change is meant to eliminate the "plateau" through challenging oneself rather than simple luck/grinding.

This change makes clan sparring much more attractive for low-skilled characters, but I don't see how it addresses the "journeyman plateau" issue. Even if the best way to master a weapon skill is now to spar with a master of that weapon, you have a chicken and egg problem with generating the first master weapon-users that others can spar against.

[Nergal]

I think based on what I've explained so far, you could see a way that someone could become highly-skilled and train others over time. It's not meant to be a "quick fix". It's not a chicken-and-egg scenario because there are still valid paths toward attaining mastery (edit to add:) even if there is no "master" available.

[Malken]

Stilt lizards are useless to someone who is good at fighting a stilt lizard in a similar way to how a sparring dummy is useless to someone who is good at fighting a sparring dummy.

I don't really agree from my own experience, sparring dummies are mostly and all the time only useful to merchants and rogue 'gikers pretending to be future Byn superstars, and only for a very limited time, but stilt lizards are excellent for anyone at advanced weapon skills because they at least give you a chance to miss once in a blue moon, and when you're at an advanced weapon level of skill, this is GOLD, Jerry!

But I also understand how this would be a good change in what you're talking about, I just think I'm speaking for everyone here (as I always do!) when I say it's probably not what we were hoping for.

Gaining chance on successful skill use/look hemote 2016 - I believe!

[LauraMars]

With all these new delicious subguilds (GLADIATOR) and what sounds like an easier time of raising combat skills, the chances of me trying to create a raiding clan/clan of rebels have just gone up

[Rathustra]

If there is nobody better than you, then you're already at the top of the heap, no?

Yeah, until one-punch man walks out of the desert with the blood of stilt lizards dripping from his bone gauntlets as he wipes your entire clan.

Which has happened at least once in Arm history. Hi Red Fangs?

Only One Punch Man will be geriatric - he will get better, the stilt lizards will not get better.

[Nergal]

Stilt lizards are useless to someone who is good at fighting a stilt lizard in a similar way to how a sparring dummy is useless to someone who is good at fighting a sparring dummy.

I don't really agree from my own experience, sparring dummies are mostly and all the time only useful to merchants and rogue 'gikers pretending to be future Byn superstars, and only for a very limited time, but stilt lizards are excellent for anyone at advanced weapon skills because they at least give you a chance to miss once in a blue moon, and when you're at an advanced weapon level of skill, this is GOLD, Jerry!

But I also understand how this would be a good change in what you're talking about, I just think I'm speaking for everyone here (as I always do!) when I say it's probably not what we were hoping for.

Gaining chance on successful skill use/look hemote 2016 - I believe!

What you observed in the past re. stilt lizards isn't really true now. They used to have a ridiculous defense stat, and now they don't.

[Malken]

Ahh, fair enough!

[Nergal]

With all these new delicious subguilds (GLADIATOR) and what sounds like an easier time of raising combat skills, the chances of me trying to create a raiding clan/clan of rebels have just gone up

I think most PCs had a harder time raising combat skills at the middle of their "fighting career". As I'm pretty confident I did my math correctly, most people should now have an easier time raising combat skills at the beginning-to-middle of their fighting career and a harder time at the end, so I think it's safe to say that raising combat skills is made easier by this change overall - even if it lacks other straightforward means of making it easier (e.g., skill gain on success).

For what it's worth to everyone posting in this thread in general, I wouldn't have pushed for this change staff-side if I didn't think it would make a difference, or if I thought it would hamper players. I have done everything I could to ensure that this is a net gain for players rather than a "nerf".

[JackGibbons]

I think most PCs had a harder time raising combat skills at the middle of their "fighting career". As I'm pretty confident I did my math correctly, most people should now have an easier time raising combat skills at the beginning-to-middle of their fighting career and a harder time at the end, so I think it's safe to say that raising combat skills is made easier by this change overall - even if it lacks other straightforward means of making it easier (e.g., skill gain on success).

For what it's worth to everyone posting in this thread in general, I wouldn't have pushed for this change staff-side if I didn't think it would make a difference, or if I thought it would hamper players. I have done everything I could to ensure that this is a net gain for players rather than a "nerf".

To clarify, do you mean that the end is 'harder' due to this change, or the end remains just as hard as it always was, with this change alleviating only the middle?

There are two difficulties with sparring that my reading/experience has made me aware of:
a) When you're so bad compared to your opponents that you get squished in a few rounds and hardly get any practice time in.
b) When you're so good compared to your opponents (especially if you're in a clan with lots of fresh recruits and turnover of higher experience chars like the Byn) that you can't ever seem to miss, which is apparently important for progress.

Would it be fair to say that these changes mostly mitigate (a), since the shorter duration of the spars due to getting melted is offset by learning more from them due to the skill disparity with your opponent?
My understanding was that it was (b) that made people stuck at jman weapons despair of finding an RP reason to hunt things they CAN get fails from. It sounds like this change doesn't help with (b) at all. But possibly I'm not clever enough, since you did say that a solution to (b) was also made possible here based on hints you gave earlier.

[Nergal]

I think most PCs had a harder time raising combat skills at the middle of their "fighting career". As I'm pretty confident I did my math correctly, most people should now have an easier time raising combat skills at the beginning-to-middle of their fighting career and a harder time at the end, so I think it's safe to say that raising combat skills is made easier by this change overall - even if it lacks other straightforward means of making it easier (e.g., skill gain on success).

For what it's worth to everyone posting in this thread in general, I wouldn't have pushed for this change staff-side if I didn't think it would make a difference, or if I thought it would hamper players. I have done everything I could to ensure that this is a net gain for players rather than a "nerf".

To clarify, do you mean that the end is 'harder' due to this change, or the end remains just as hard as it always was, with this change alleviating only the middle?

There are two difficulties with sparring that my reading/experience has made me aware of:
a) When you're so bad compared to your opponents that you get squished in a few rounds and hardly get any practice time in.
b) When you're so good compared to your opponents (especially if you're in a clan with lots of fresh recruits and turnover of higher experience chars like the Byn) that you can't ever seem to miss, which is apparently important for progress.

Would it be fair to say that these changes mostly mitigate (a), since the shorter duration of the spars due to getting melted is offset by learning more from them due to the skill disparity with your opponent?
My understanding was that it was (b) that made people stuck at jman weapons despair of finding an RP reason to hunt things they CAN get fails from. It sounds like this change doesn't help with (b) at all. But possibly I'm not clever enough, since you did say that a solution to (b) was also made possible here based on hints you gave earlier.

The end is hard as it always was, but also because you would be hard-pressed to find someone that has truly mastered fighting.

Problem A is mitigated by making the shorter session/fewer fails worth more, as each fail would have a higher chance of causing skill-gain.
Problem B is not specifically mitigated by this change, but by the fact that they will still have a chance to gain skills, and still have a chance to find someone or something to fight that is better than them at fighting. There are very few PCs in-game right now that are at the top-tier of combat potential.

[JackGibbons]

I think most PCs had a harder time raising combat skills at the middle of their "fighting career". As I'm pretty confident I did my math correctly, most people should now have an easier time raising combat skills at the beginning-to-middle of their fighting career and a harder time at the end, so I think it's safe to say that raising combat skills is made easier by this change overall - even if it lacks other straightforward means of making it easier (e.g., skill gain on success).

For what it's worth to everyone posting in this thread in general, I wouldn't have pushed for this change staff-side if I didn't think it would make a difference, or if I thought it would hamper players. I have done everything I could to ensure that this is a net gain for players rather than a "nerf".

To clarify, do you mean that the end is 'harder' due to this change, or the end remains just as hard as it always was, with this change alleviating only the middle?

There are two difficulties with sparring that my reading/experience has made me aware of:
a) When you're so bad compared to your opponents that you get squished in a few rounds and hardly get any practice time in.
b) When you're so good compared to your opponents (especially if you're in a clan with lots of fresh recruits and turnover of higher experience chars like the Byn) that you can't ever seem to miss, which is apparently important for progress.

Would it be fair to say that these changes mostly mitigate (a), since the shorter duration of the spars due to getting melted is offset by learning more from them due to the skill disparity with your opponent?
My understanding was that it was (b) that made people stuck at jman weapons despair of finding an RP reason to hunt things they CAN get fails from. It sounds like this change doesn't help with (b) at all. But possibly I'm not clever enough, since you did say that a solution to (b) was also made possible here based on hints you gave earlier.

The end is hard as it always was, but also because you would be hard-pressed to find someone that has truly mastered fighting.

Problem A is mitigated by making the shorter session/fewer fails worth more, as each fail would have a higher chance of causing skill-gain.
Problem B is not specifically mitigated by this change, but by the fact that they will still have a chance to gain skills, and still have a chance to find someone or something to fight that is better than them at fighting. There are very few PCs in-game right now that are at the top-tier of combat potential.

Thanks for clarifying. Certainly (a) helps with (b) indirectly in that you can train up peers more easily and slowly improve against each other.

[Nergal]

Yes, that is also true.

[Dan]

Does this mean we can now 'get gud'?

I think this translates directly into bridging the gap between the new PCs and the veterans in any given group. Which is a good thing. It may translate into a more fast paced experience and, at times, overconfidence.

[Eilwen]

With all these new delicious subguilds (GLADIATOR) and what sounds like an easier time of raising combat skills, the chances of me trying to create a raiding clan/clan of rebels have just gone up

Let's do this.

[Synthesis]

The simplest way I imagine this working is that there's a sliding scale that affects chance-to-learn-from-fail based on the ratio of base O/D between the combatants.

So if your base O/D is 1 and your partner's base O/D is 100, it's 100:1 and every fail you get, you get a skill bump.

But if your base O/D is 50 and your partner's base O/D is 50, it's 50:50, and you might get like a 50% chance to get a skill bump on a failure.

Meanwhile, if your base O/D is 100, and your partner's base O/D is 1, you might only get a 1% chance to get a skill bump on a failure (if you even fail at all, which you won't).

That's what I gather from reading between the lines, anyway.  It still doesn't solve the problem of what happens when you never fail at all, ever, because weapon skill + style + base O > base D for all base Ds short of an Ankheg.

But I mean...we'll see.  Supposedly parries count as failures, so I guess we'll see how that plays out.  Given what I've observed, and what's been said so far, I don't think it's going to change much.  You're still going to advance faster by going out and fighting mobs that have base D stats that are vastly superior to what is possible to attain with a humanoid PC.  And you're still going to advance faster by fighting any kind of mob that can dodge you with regularity, regardless of what the relative base O/D stats are.

It'll be interesting to see if this code change affects IC relationships, though.  The value of 1337 PCs will go beyond RPT DPS and affect the training efficiency of the entire unit.  It always did, to a minor extent, but this could  make it a bigger concern, especially if I'm wrong about parries/blocks not counting as fails (which I maintain is a possibility, I suppose, buuuut again, I haven't seen much to support that assertion).

[rodic]

-Changes made to how offense, defense, weapon proficiency, and two handed increase

GET HYPE

RIP Turaal University's School of the Only Way to Improve Weapon Skills... maybe finally?

I think it's safe to say their accreditation has been revoked.

This is going to really fuck with the ecology, players are turaal's only natural predator.

[nauta]

Turaal                                                          (Animal Life)

While scarce, their rarity is probably more product of their preference for remote ravines and gullies
than a deficit in numbers. Between one and one and a half cords in length when mature, these serpentine-
bodied mammals are sought after both for their sleek pelts, and for bragging rights.

Looks like the helpfile needs updated! 

[Asmoth]

The simplest way I imagine this working is that there's a sliding scale that affects chance-to-learn-from-fail based on the ratio of base O/D between the combatants.

So if your base O/D is 1 and your partner's base O/D is 100, it's 100:1 and every fail you get, you get a skill bump.

But if your base O/D is 50 and your partner's base O/D is 50, it's 50:50, and you might get like a 50% chance to get a skill bump on a failure.

Meanwhile, if your base O/D is 100, and your partner's base O/D is 1, you might only get a 1% chance to get a skill bump on a failure (if you even fail at all, which you won't).

That's what I gather from reading between the lines, anyway.  It still doesn't solve the problem of what happens when you never fail at all, ever, because weapon skill + style + base O > base D for all base Ds short of an Ankheg.

But I mean...we'll see.  Supposedly parries count as failures, so I guess we'll see how that plays out.  Given what I've observed, and what's been said so far, I don't think it's going to change much.  You're still going to advance faster by going out and fighting mobs that have base D stats that are vastly superior to what is possible to attain with a humanoid PC.  And you're still going to advance faster by fighting any kind of mob that can dodge you with regularity, regardless of what the relative base O/D stats are.

It'll be interesting to see if this code change affects IC relationships, though.  The value of 1337 PCs will go beyond RPT DPS and affect the training efficiency of the entire unit.  It always did, to a minor extent, but this could  make it a bigger concern, especially if I'm wrong about parries/blocks not counting as fails (which I maintain is a possibility, I suppose, buuuut again, I haven't seen much to support that assertion).

Synthesis, always a ray of sunshine in the storm...

[Sunburned]

I'm extremely optimistic and grateful for this change, Nergal.

To reiterate similar concerns of Synthesis...

My only worry is that if the mode of failure hasn't changed (how failures are recognized in the code), then this will ultimately matter little for combatants at that infamous plateau, because journeyman+ warriors stop failing against each other.  This basically means that people who hunt and/or have experienced rangers in their clan will still be at a great advantage, and this will still result in metagaming.

[evilcabbage]

according to past threads, parry/block counts as a fail.

so there is that.

[Riev]

Maybe not so many useless Bynners even after a year of decent sparring?

[Nergal]

I'm extremely optimistic and grateful for this change, Nergal.

To reiterate similar concerns of Synthesis...

My only worry is that if the mode of failure hasn't changed (how failures are recognized in the code), then this will ultimately matter little for combatants at that infamous plateau, because journeyman+ warriors stop failing against each other.  This basically means that people who hunt and/or have experienced rangers in their clan will still be at a great advantage, and this will still result in metagaming.

Two fighters that are truly equally skilled won't "stop failing" against each other. That has been a design of the code for a while - although many are convinced of the false presumption that they will never fail, this is because all player methods of determining relative skill have some inherent inaccuracy. Even if parries/blocks didn't count as failures, between equally-skilled fighters they only extend the length of a spar at worst, because with equal stats/skills their success and failure against one another is completely random.

Unfortunately this seems more like something that some people won't be convinced of until they actually try the new system out, so I'm not going to expound on that response to that particular concern any further, and just let the code change speak for itself over time.

[Malken]

Unfortunately this seems more like something that some people won't be convinced of until they actually try the new system out, so I'm not going to expound on that response to that particular concern any further, and just let the code change speak for itself over time.

I believe you! I just wasn't aware of the stilt lizard and other critter changes before you mentioned it.

The more I read your replies the more I like that change.

[hyzhenhok]

It'll be interesting to see if this code change affects IC relationships, though.  The value of 1337 PCs will go beyond RPT DPS and affect the training efficiency of the entire unit.  It always did, to a minor extent, but this could  make it a bigger concern, especially if I'm wrong about parries/blocks not counting as fails (which I maintain is a possibility, I suppose, buuuut again, I haven't seen much to support that assertion).

I like this a lot, and it also changes the dynamic in actual sparring sessions. Now, people should be lining up to receive "lessons" from the better fighters in the guild, whereas earlier the incentive was you never wanted to fight someone who could kick your ass, because unless they were nice and did the nosave combat drill you'd get your ass kicked too quickly to get your fails in.

[Akariel]

I would like to add that I've been watching the stilt lizards since the new species went in - fewer people train on them than you might imagine.

[najdorf]

best improvement to combat mechanics in a long time while keeping things still balanced

[BadSkeelz]

Sounds like a great change, especially for the military clans.

[Chettaman]

Genos did it.
I wonder what it's like to have master weapons skills....

[Majikal]

*approval stamp*

[IAmJacksOpinion]

I'm definitely glad to see this issue getting addressed, but I'm still hesitantly in the camp of thinking this was more of a cure for the symptom instead of the disease... My head's in the same place Synth's is.

Either way, definitely going to have to do a Tour d' Byn in the near future and kick the tires on this update.

[Dresan]

I think if all branching ever gets lowered to low to mid advanced instead of needing the skills mastered, we'd be in a good place in addition to this change.

[RogueGunslinger]

I kind of like branching where it is. If anything they branching order just needs revised.

[Dresan]

Its half the reason the feeling of grind exists. The first reason is because sometimes you need to branch to be effective. #PickpocketWoes. And the second because skills like hide/sneak aren't that reliable at lower levels. 

[Riev]

The branches are fine, in that being a "master" at a weapon skill SHOULD be pretty significant. If we're talking a 0-100 scale, the difference of 40-50 points, to me, is like a +4 or +5 on your D20.

I think where people get frustrated is that when you DO branch a higher weapon skill, your offense/style is so high that you honestly aren't ever going to get that secondary skill to a level that is significant, simply by how the combat system works. You're much better staying a Master Swordsman than you are, say, trying to become a polearm master.

[John]

Its half the reason the feeling of grind exists. The first reason is because sometimes you need to branch to be effective. #PickpocketWoes.

I've looked at burglars/assassins and pickpockets and I'm just waiting for Adhira to start that thread on feedback for the guilds.

And the second because skills like hide/sneak aren't that reliable at lower levels.  

I dunno. I think the whole "you have to grind so hard and so long to be effective" gets thrown around a bit too much. And for that I do blame the fact the ranks are now visible. It doesn't seem (to me) like advancing in some skills requires dedicated practice, but instead simply requires normal behaviour that someone whose trying to provide for themselves would carry out in a balanced manner.

I think where people get frustrated is that when you DO branch a higher weapon skill, your offense/style is so high that you honestly aren't ever going to get that secondary skill to a level that is significant, simply by how the combat system works. You're much better staying a Master Swordsman than you are, say, trying to become a polearm master.

From what I've heard you don't need to get those skills high to be effective. I don't know how much the code works is being openly discussed these days (certainly more than there was a few years ago! I've gone to report a few posts only to see staff quote those posts and discuss the points the post raised even further!). But I think having even entry level in those advanced weapon skills will make you someone to be feared.

[Dresan]

You try committing a crime before hide/sneak hits advance and see how that works out for you.  


Sadly weapon skills are the only skills that seem to come into people's minds when branching is concerned. Master slashing weapon skill is great, but warriors should have the option to move on to bigger and better a bit sooner and then get to decide if they want to invest the time to master that basic weapon skill like that ranger is doing.

By allowing people to branching sooner, it would mean that with skill bump invested (3 times per year special app), you will eventually branch without needing to twink. I'm okay with it still being for people without skill bumps to get weapons skills to master and then advanced weapons higher after due to offense skill being so high.

 

[John]

You try committing a crime before hide/sneak hits advance and see how that works out for you.  

Have and it's not that bad if you're careful.

As for twinking being required to branch: it's not. Given twinking is against the rules (if we define it as acting unrealistically for coded advantage) I completely reject the idea that the majority of players do it. Although maybe I'm wrong and you guys are a bunch of twinks.Personally I think people just need to calm down and focus on their character, not their skill list. Unless your only talking about advanced weapon skills. In which case getting those branched is a lifetime achievement. I personally like it like that because it means those who get them are truly masters of fighting that very few other people can ever hope to equal. If you make razors easier to get then everyone is going to complain how uber powerful warriors are and how there's no point anyone else bothering to play non-magical combat characters. Keep it rare and those who do branch them ICly and OOCly become things of legend.

[Asanadas]

Things of legend.

I remember a Tuluki soldier branching pikes in less than 5 days played.

That's like a joke to me. 

In my opinion, lower the .go-on values and in fact take some skills out of the branching order entirely. Merchant is a great example of a hair-pulling tedious process not to become useful, but to become relevant.

Hopefully with the guild lookings at eventually coming, the decision to streamline this archaic design will come through. I'm available for Q/A if you need some design tips, staffers.

[John]

Things of legend.

I remember a Tuluki soldier branching pikes in less than 5 days played.

That's like a joke to me. 

In my opinion, lower the .go-on values and in fact take some skills out of the branching order entirely. Merchant is a great example of a hair-pulling tedious process not to become useful, but to become relevant.

Hopefully with the guild lookings at eventually coming, the decision to streamline this archaic design will come through. I'm available for Q/A if you need some design tips, staffers.

Well this either demonstrates that (1) Twinking isn't required or (2) Twinking gets you an unreasonably big advantage.

Either/or, twinking isn't necessary.

[Delirium]

Code abuse isn't required... what is required: patience, the willingness to regularly train, and experience with how the code works.

[Nergal]

(1) Twinking isn't required or (2) Twinking gets you an unreasonably big advantage.

Both of those used to be true - hopefully this change will close the gap on (2), not so much by nerfing the common twinking methods but by closing the gap between twinks and regular training.

[Riev]

(1) Twinking isn't required or (2) Twinking gets you an unreasonably big advantage.

Both of those used to be true - hopefully this change will close the gap on (2), not so much by nerfing the common twinking methods but by closing the gap between twinks and regular training.

So. The entire purpose, hopefully, is that the 'quicker' new PCs can learn their skills from the established fighters in a clan, the faster the established fighters will start fighting someone more equal, and thus getting more skill?

I want to believe in it, so hard, because I hate being a dirty independent PC with no help or backing. However, I've BEEN the established warrior, fighting a relatively equal warrior, and the sitting there... blocking and parrying and etc etc... when slashing gloves were taken away I was convinced it was Jet Li fighting Jet Li. Nobody wins.

[Nergal]

(1) Twinking isn't required or (2) Twinking gets you an unreasonably big advantage.

Both of those used to be true - hopefully this change will close the gap on (2), not so much by nerfing the common twinking methods but by closing the gap between twinks and regular training.

So. The entire purpose, hopefully, is that the 'quicker' new PCs can learn their skills from the established fighters in a clan, the faster the established fighters will start fighting someone more equal, and thus getting more skill?

Essentially, yes.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

I just want to make a quick note: skilling up isn't the same as twinking. Just because someone finds even a thin excuse to go and fight X and Y because they know it will help them doesn't mean they are twinking. Twinking is when they go do all of that and there is no roleplay or consideration of anything beside for skilling up. There is a difference.

I am quite pleased with this change, by the way.

[John]

When I'm a bit unsure how to construct my character's activities I typically start with something that resembles the Byn schedule:
Dawn: Get to area for Activity 1
Early Morning: Activity 1
Late Morning: Actviity 1
High Sun: Rest
Early Afternoon: Variable Activity
Late Afternoon: Variable Activity
Dusk: Go somewhere to socialise (if previous activity was outside the city then I typically make sure I'm in the city by Dusk),
Late at Night: Rest
Before Dawn: Rest

What these activities are of course varies from character to character, as does the exact times. But it's essentially two IC hours of one activity, have a break and then another two IC hours of ideally a different activity (my newbie salt foragers for example need to dedicate the full 4ish hours to gathering salt simply to not starve or die of thirst each day).

While I find this is a good starting point, I also find it tends to go out the window once my character starts getting to know people and get involved in plots and such.