Normal Clothing Ninjas!

[Asche]

So, one of my pet peeves when I'm playing a stealthy person is that the mechanically optimal way to play them in nearly all cases is to be in black leather and slipping about. Even in a crowded area in broad daylight. Personally, when I'm sneaking/hiding around the main roads, I tend to imagine it more as keeping to the crowds. If I play a dissapearing act in the bazaar, I may be behind a crate, but its also likely I'm pretending to converse with a nearby merchant, being as mundane as possible. And thats what I'd like to talk about. There should be a 'mundane' line of clothing that boosts stealth skills. No armor. No myriad of pockets. No special lightweight material that fades in with the shadows. Just a sandcloth shirt, sandcloth pants, and boots. Maybe a wide-brimmed hat. I'm not sure how massive an undertaking turning 'stealth' tags on individual items of clothing would be. What I would wonder is if staff would support mastercrafts from all the tailors out there, making clothing specifically designed to not attract attention.

[hopeandsorrow]

Insert wildly unpopular opinion

There should be no +stealth gear.

Unless I'm wrong here, is there an +scan gear?

Stealth at mastery is already a near magical ability.

I also like playing stealth classes.

[seidhr]

Insert wildly unpopular opinion

There should be no +stealth gear.

Unless I'm wrong here, is there an +scan gear?

Stealth at mastery is already a near magical ability.

I also like playing stealth classes.

Amen, preach it brother!

[Delirium]

Insert wildly unpopular opinion

There should be no +stealth gear.

Unless I'm wrong here, is there an +scan gear?

Stealth at mastery is already a near magical ability.

I also like playing stealth classes.

Amen, preach it brother!

Thirded.

I can't help but roll my eyes every time I see someone decked out in full black leather in the Zalanthan desert.

[Synthesis]

Insert wildly unpopular opinion

There should be no +stealth gear.

Unless I'm wrong here, is there an +scan gear?

Stealth at mastery is already a near magical ability.

I also like playing stealth classes.

Amen, preach it brother!

Thirded.

I can't help but roll my eyes every time I see someone decked out in full black leather in the Zalanthan desert.

The problem:

Full black leather makes sense at night.  However, you can't keep a set of full black leather just for night ops, because the PCs who will break into your apartment will steal it all at the first available opportunity, because hey...that's what they were going to spend the coins on, anyway.

So...either you roll ridiculously high strength and carry it all with you in a bag all the time, or you wear it all the time.

Sorry, that's the metagame.  Deal with it.

[Delirium]

Black clothing (as opposed to leather) would work just as well at night, be more maneuverable, and weigh way less!

Not saying I don't understand why people do it. Oh, I do. There's a "I see what you did there" gif floating around in my head every time.

The point of this thread is that we wish it didn't have to be that way.

The +hide gear, as currently implemented, is a mildly ridiculous holdover from 90's style Armageddon.

[hopeandsorrow]

The problem:

Full black leather makes sense at night.  However, you can't keep a set of full black leather just for night ops, because the PCs who will break into your apartment will steal it all at the first available opportunity, because hey...that's what they were going to spend the coins on, anyway.

So...either you roll ridiculously high strength and carry it all with you in a bag all the time, or you wear it all the time.

Sorry, that's the metagame.  Deal with it.

Or we could remove the +stealth flag from clothing all together, give a +Stealth bonus blanket across all skills for night.

High end stealth armor could get something cooler... like more movement points or protection or... something +sexy.

Metagame be damned, stealth gear is cheesy, makes the already cheesy nature of city stealth even worse.  But I'm getting off topic.

Back to the OP made me think of something

There is the skill_hide and skill_Sneak, yes, but your regular threads don't need +Stealth.  There is a wonderful skill given to all players, that very few I've ever seen use effectively.  It's called RP and there is something magical when some one pulls the wool over your eyes.  Learning to blend into the PC population, being so ubiquitous that no one ever makes serious note of your pc's existence, can't effectively guild sniff them out, assuming you are or some one else.  I've seen this rarely but I think it's awesome when a really clever player does manage to pull it off.

I know, city stealth is suppose be part "blending in" but there is more then one way to do that and some players are crazy at getting away it.

[Synthesis]

I'm not making any argument about whether the gear is +stealth or not, or whether such gear ought to exist, just to be clear.

I'm talking about the wearing of black leather stuff, regardless of whether it's actually stealthy.

I'd say most people are wearing it because it looks cool, not because they really think it's giving them some sort of bonus.

[Chettaman]

All of my stealthy characters were normal clothes and they were stealthy enough. Let me tell you. You wouldn't even know until I made it completely obvious. Which I did.

[Malifaxis]

So quit bitching and play a mastercrafter.  Be the change you want.

[Dalmeth]

So quit bitching and play a mastercrafter.  Be the change you want.

Given the rate at which mastercrafts are processed, and then the rate at which mastercrafts are sent back for minor failings, it would be a whole hell of a lot less troublesome for everybody to just remove +stealth.

People will still grab the best stealth gear because it's usually the highest stamina bonus, too.

[Case]

Dark colors are harder to see in darkness than black.

[Asche]

So quit bitching and play a mastercrafter.  Be the change you want.

You mean, like raising the issue on the gdb to raise interest in tailor mastercrafts and see if staff would even accept them? Rather than playing a tailor by myself for years to slowly implement them once a month? Oh, sorry, I guess even discussing something is 'bitching.' Take your 'be the change' noncontributing circle jerk bullshit elsewhere, please.

[Delirium]

I was probably a little unfair earlier in this thread. I mean, honestly, unless you only want what seems to be a 75% chance of being hidden even at master, you need +hide gear.

I just wish it was implemented better. I think black leather is silly in a desert environment, but you know, it's all we have, unless you want to be decked out in camo gear.

So yeah, somebody put up a submissions call. I'd be on that shit like bees on flowers, or... something.

[Delirium]

Also, this is your friendly player-mod warning to dial back on (and preferably edit out) the needless hostility.

[wizturbo]

Insert wildly unpopular opinion

There should be no +stealth gear.

Unless I'm wrong here, is there an +scan gear?

Stealth at mastery is already a near magical ability.

I also like playing stealth classes.

Amen, preach it brother!

I believe the core issue isn't stealth gear, it's that there is no "actively searching mode" for scan.  Give everyone a command with a long delay to give a bonus to scan and then there will be a way to defeat +stealth gear.

[Malken]

I always thought that those "desert" sunglasses might give a bonus to scan but who knows..

I KNOW FOR A FACT THAT WEARING A FALCON ON YOUR SHOULDER DOES THOUGH!

[nauta]

When I ran with some rats in the rinth, we made it a point to keep the distinction between code and reality in mind: sometimes you can codedly hide where you shouldn't, e.g., bright rooms, but also sometimes hiding in black makes no sense, e.g., if you are hiding at Red's, it makes more sense to wear normal clothes than ninja clothes.

Another thing to bear in mind, perhaps, is that a lot of the onus of believability falls square on the shoulders of the one doing the hiding.  I wouldn't mind seeing more guidelines in the help file on 'hide', but here are a few useful guidelines:

1. Active and Passive. The skill associated with hiding includes both passive forms of hiding (standing in a shadow with dark clothes on) and active forms of hiding (blending in with a crowd, using distraction to your advantage).

2. Read Room Descriptions. When you hide, read the room descriptions carefully and ask yourself: where could I possibly hide here.  The code doesn't take a lot of things into account, although I'd bug things that are obviously bugs (e.g., well lit rooms shouldn't allow you to hide).

3. Use an emote before you hide.  On a successful hide, you vanish from the room with no echo to the recipients.  This can cause a lot of confusion, especially if you do it mid-conversation or while someone is looking at you.  Tossing an emote before a hide helps everyone understand the situation much better.  Sure, sometimes you might be -that- ninja (especially if it's in the rinth) but most of the time it just defies belief when someone vanishes in front of you mid conversation with no emote.

4. Learn the difference between hemote, semote, and emote when successfully hidden.  If you 'emote' and you are successfully hidden, for instance, the rest of the room sees: 'Someone nods.'  That can be kind of confusing to people.  Try to instead form emotes where 'someone' makes sense.

There's probably more, but I think those are the big four.

[James de Monet]

I KNOW FOR A FACT THAT WEARING A FALCON ON YOUR SHOULDER DOES THOUGH!

This is how awesome rumors get started.

[Jihelu]

It would be nice if things could be flagged at certain times.
IE:
If in desert and wearing desert/sandcloth shit you get stealth bonus no matter the time.
If in the city and wearing poor people/normal clothes you get a sneak bonus in the day or something idk.

[Harmless]

If stealth bonuses were specialized to certain zones that'd be amazing. Dressed like a tuluki in Allanak = penalty, vice versa. Then the value skill would be useful.

This item was made in the northlands.

This item was made in Allanak.

Etc.

Of course there should still be well-made clothes that help you blend in anywhere, for example, Kadian outfits of certain colors.

[Jihelu]

Hell thats even better!
Using clothes in their respective cities give a +barter and +stealth bonus for in day effects.
Because at night, it doesn't matter much.
THough dark clothing of any make should give stealth at night.

...
I like my ideas

[CodeMaster]

Great ideas.  Maybe the sum of the value of your clothes [in your current region] could offer you a bonus/penalty to city hide, too.

I idead once having clothing on with the same words that appear in the room desc should give you a hide bonus.  So if you're near some "red" cliffs, finding some red gear could give you a modest bonus.

[Dan]

I'd rather remove +stealth and just make it so the modifier is entirely dependent on weight being carried/worn.

[Delirium]

Thus further fucking over low strength characters...

I really, really wish encumbrance was influenced by endurance as well as strength, rather than just strength.

That would also have the effect of making strength less of a powerhouse stat by allowing characters with so-so strength but good endurance to wear decent armor (and don't get me started on the ridiculous weights of weapons and armor in the game, everything needs to weigh roughly 1/2 what it does.)