Sleep Code

[RogueGunslinger]

You don't always choose IRL to wake up instantly 2 hours after you sleep. If you are tired you oversleep.

That's when you choose to sleep. Not when it's forced on you. Being knocked out in real life doesn't last more than a few minutes.

[hopeandsorrow]

You don't always choose IRL to wake up instantly 2 hours after you sleep. If you are tired you oversleep.

That's when you choose to sleep. Not when it's forced on you. Being knocked out in real life doesn't last more than a few minutes.

Depends how excessive the brain trauma is...

[RogueGunslinger]

Much longer than 5 minutes and you're looking at a coma, and some significant brain trauma. If you get knocked out at all you likely have a concussion which itself can be really fucked up. I'd much rather see concussions coded in, than this hideous piece of code whos horribleness is trumped only by drunk-falling... Actually now that I think of it, drunk-falling code is closer to a concussion than it is real drunkenness.

[Chettaman]

I like the sleep code just fine.


You don't always choose IRL to wake up instantly 2 hours after you sleep. If you are tired you oversleep.

True enough. And I'm going to argue something irrelevant, but if I can trust someone to roleplay not seeing my exact description while I'm covered from head to toe then I can trust someone to roleplay sleeping properly. Or walk. Everyone walks with a purpose. Eat.
also I'm thinking /if/ someone falls asleep below 50% threshhold then they have to get up to whatever threshhold stamina to wake back up.
if they go to sleep at 51% they should be able to wake up normally. This should clear up any uh... you know stuff. Because I'll admit doing just a little walking and then passing out for an hour is funny to me. Softies.

But my argument is simply trust the roleplayers to roleplay sleep.

and as for being knocked unconscious: I dunno... uh. How about you allow people to tell sleeping people things and have it register. You can whisper to them, but I don't know if that actually achieves anything.
I /do/ know that if you emote things, sleeping people see them. So with this post I want to push for people emoting around sleeping people.

---drinking unconscious: Stop being pansies. Sure it says you pass out, but I mean... not /everyone/ just passes out. You should emote being black out drunk and doing things you probably shouldn't be doing in your drunken stupor. And again I want to push for people in the area to emote their responses because that's the only way sleeping people will see them.
NOTE: eh. two minutes knocked out tops? Maybe even just random emotes like, "you suddenly kiss the tall muscular man!"
or "You stand up, move to a corner and piss" or something. mostly joking.

---fighting knock out sleep: for playability it should stay the same. I mean... there /are/ salts.

---poisoned unconscious: Totally your own fault for getting poisoned. You can emote being groggy, but I mean... it makes more sense to just be knocked out. Um... I'm okay with how long you're out. in my opinion.

anything else?

*um. if you don't want to roleplay sleep, uh... log out. It might be cool for us all to agree logging out is okay. Because, I for one prefer to think people need sleep and that they should sleep for at least 10 irl minutes. I do 20irl minutes, but you know... to each gamer. Yeah. I think I'm absolutely down with the idea of lowered stats due to lack of sleep.

[manipura]

Much longer than 5 minutes and you're looking at a coma, and some significant brain trauma. If you get knocked out at all you likely have a concussion which itself can be really fucked up. I'd much rather see concussions coded in, than this hideous piece of code whos horribleness is trumped only by drunk-falling... Actually now that I think of it, drunk-falling code is closer to a concussion than it is real drunkenness.

Random thoughts:
You can be knocked out for longer than a few minutes and not be at risk of slipping into a coma.
Drunk-code is a huge pain in the ass.
While I sometimes question why a sleeping person can see the emotes around them, I am thankful for it, because it gives some hints about how you can be emoting and all that.

[Asmoth]

...

I'd be okay if it'd bring you to +1 and leave you there until you sleep it off - at least that way, you could quit out, come back and sleep it off, without using quitOOC (does that even work if you're unconscious, with no HP loss?). I'd also like for the death code to be a tiny bit more OOCly helpful. So if I'm down to -1hps - and for whatever reason I go up 1, then down 2, then up 1, then down 1, and so on and so forth and I'm passed out and can't wake up and have no idea what's going on...
...

Yeah, I've had this happen a few times over the years, and you don't want to QUIT DIE, because you think there might be a chance, which leaves you staring a a black screen for ten minutes or more.

Only to eventually hear DING and mantis head.

The whole "Will I die, or will I recover" shit needs a major overhaul.

[Chettaman]

"Will I live or will I die" um...
What if there was a

Code Select Expand


hp -3
>wake
through sheer will you attempt to rise, but you fall back down.
hp - 4

>wake
through sheer will you attempt to rise and you manage to struggle to your feet.
hp 1


[MeTekillot]

You are filled with DETERMINATION.

[Chettaman]

You are filled with DETERMINATION.

Now that I have some knowledge of C code, I know that I can make these changes possible and I don't want to just make more code that people will complain about so I want it to be perfect-ish. Pokemon style emperialism. I'll teach you and you teach me. Together! We will be victorious!!!

So code discussion doesn't just become a bunch of people talking about a problem. So that the legitimate complains lead to solutions.

Now let me see you grit those teeth!
---------------------------
A list of suggestions for ''improving'' how sleep works:

• Wake below zero hit points will roll a dice to see if you get up or go back down in hp.

Code Select Expand


hp -3
>wake
through sheer will you attempt to rise, but you fall back down.
hp - 4

>wake
through sheer will you attempt to rise and you manage to struggle to your feet.
hp 1


• knockout after a fight-sleep
I think this should stay the same. Anyone else?

• poisoned sleep
I think this should also be the same. Anyone?

• drunk sleep
depending on endurance and drinking ability you may either black out or pass out.
--Blacking out: your character is totally plastered, you can barely walk, you lose your ability to speak sometimes, um... maybe some different drunk emotes like being poisoned except less psychodelic. Maybe some, "You've really gotta pee" emotes.
--pass out: you fall out of your chair and you're asleep for ten minute

ack... more to be added. Something's come up.

[CodeMaster]

I'd much rather see concussions coded in [...] drunk-falling code is closer to a concussion than it is real drunkenness.

This is a great idea.

[CodeMaster]

"Will I live or will I love" um...
What if there was a

Code Select Expand


hp -3
>wake
through sheer will you attempt to rise, but you fall back down.
hp - 4

>wake
through sheer will you attempt to rise and you manage to struggle to your feet.
hp 1


Also a cool idea.

In general I think less unconsciousness and more debilitation would be cool (like RGS's application of the drunk code to a concussed character, or a period of being unable to use the way or stand from a resting position).

[Refugee]

I'd much rather see concussions coded in [...] drunk-falling code is closer to a concussion than it is real drunkenness.

This is a great idea.

No!  Ugh.  Atonement had this.  Nothing's fun about being forced to lay around in your cot for hours while everyone else is off RPing.  We could do it differently but really.  It'd be terrible for the people who didn't have much time to put to the game anyway.

[nauta]

Here are some thoughts on the sleep code (basically: Nauta's Nosleep Idea).

1.  A Physician Room with vNPC physicians in each clan and in each civilized area (for independents).  Rather than 'sleep' you would type 'patch me up' or something like that, and they would start patching you up.  I believe most of the clans already do this: you go to Sawbones, you go to sleep, and you toss out some emotes.  When I first encountered this, I was like: Huh.  Being patched up would take some small amount of time, but it wouldn't be so much that you are knocked out of RPTs and RP.  It'd still be up to you to RP out your injury however you want (as it is now).  (Maybe even have the physician room sport a physician NPC who uses the bandage skill to bandage you up, complete with its risks.)

2. Next, eliminate sleep's healing powers across the board and maybe eliminate the 'sleep' command entirely.

3. If someone is so damaged, they will need to find a physician PC (someone with the bandage skill or a gick) or make it back to a virtual physician in one of the physician rooms.

4. Maybe keep the 'sleep' command around for RP purposes only -- but have it give no more benefit codedly than 'rest'.  

5. Of course keep all the yummy ways of knocking someone or yourself unconscious that exist.  With most of them, there is a delay before you can wake yourself up (I believe), but perhaps make them all that way, or at least until your stun recovers -- e.g., after getting knocked in a brawl.

Upshots: If you want to explore far from civilized areas, bring a physician or a gick, or be one yourself, or know the way back to one of the virtual ones.

[Refugee]

I like Nauta's ideas.

Make the unclanned physician cost sid, depending on the amount of damage, to further encourage clan membership.

[solera]

Keep sleep command, not only for RP and dreams, but to aid recovery from exhaustion.

[Chettaman]

I like Nauta's ideas.

Make the unclanned physician cost sid, depending on the amount of damage, to further encourage clan membership.

xD But I...
Yeah, I agree with her.

I like the sleep command, though because it makes sense to increase rest and stuff.  And roleplay, because I do sleep often in game.
sleep can affect hp regain above threshhold.
sleep should not affect hp below threshhold. That's medic stuff and time.

Instead of health not increasing under threshhold make it slower. Much slower. Like days long. AND if someone ever gets below threshhold they have to wait it out to heal as slowly as if it was still below threshhold. And if it ever reaches 100% again the refresh rate will return to normal.

This kind of code will make it difficult for indies to just go around fighting things and falling to like 30% and rushing off. A code like this will make it hard for indies... well. not really. They'll go to the doctor and get aid.

and I thought it would be okay to give the medic a chance to fail, but that would be messed up. I think success every time is fair for playability.

[Delirium]

I had an idea to start up a medic's tent with a physician and medicine, all third-world style - but we realized no one would ever use it because you can just sleep it off.

As for getting more severe with injuries, I'd rather see a compromise for playability's sake;

No more "no regen" points. HP will always regen. Instead, the more hurt you are, the more slowly your hitpoints will recuperate, on a sliding scale.

Being poisoned or suffering damage from non-physical sources should go to a separate non-physical HP pool. Losing those HP is just as lethal, but shows up in different ways.

"Looks wan" "Looks drained" "Looks ill" etc instead of "Is bleeding all over the floor".

(these numbers have been pulled out of the air, please do not get overly attached to the specific numbers, this is just to explain my idea):

If you've been "injured", aka put at 40% or below of your total physical hitpoints, then you suffer a 10% loss to your HP cap for a set amount of time.

So if you have 100 hitpoints, are reduced to 40, then your hit points are capped at 90hp for 24 hours (both on and off-line) until you recuperate to 100hp.

Multiple injuries stack, so if you repeatedly get injured, you continue losing from your HP pool.

Much like a certain poison works, but a bit more severe.

The only way to remove injuries is to wait them out, or to have yourself treated by a qualified medic.

Oh, and bandaging failures should not damage HP to the extent that it does at low levels unless it is a critical fail, and even then it should only knock off 1-5.

The threshold to be able to bandage yourself should be a lot higher. "Yes I do have a massive cut that needs bandaging, fuck you code!"

[RogueGunslinger]

I'd much rather see concussions coded in [...] drunk-falling code is closer to a concussion than it is real drunkenness.

This is a great idea.

Oh, god no. I go off about how drunk-falling code is the worst bit of code in game and you want to add it to other situations? No thank you.


Edit: I hate the idea of having to be in a clan or know a PC physician to get fixed up. There would have to be these sorts of NPC's available to everyone.


Idea: Sleeping for 5 minutes should reset your skill timers.

[nauta]

Yep, yep.  I quickly learned that nobody -really- uses bandage when they ought to, since:

I had an idea to start up a medic's tent with a physician and medicine, all third-world style - but we realized no one would ever use it because you can just sleep it off.

Coupled with this:

Oh, and bandaging failures should not damage HP to the extent that it does at low levels unless it is a critical fail, and even then it should only knock off 1-5.

The threshold to be able to bandage yourself should be a lot higher. "Yes I do have a massive cut that needs bandaging, fuck you code!"

And I don't blame them.  Also change the failed bandage check to something that doesn't involve an echo about -groaning-.  I've received some -really- visceral reactions from characters I've failed to bandage, when, honestly, I at least -tried-, and I've had characters literally run off when they are damaged just to avoid me trying to bandage them, hehe.

The balance is playability -- independents and off-peak solo explorers do need an option here -- versus, well, playability again -- bandage should be playable in a fun way.

[Chettaman]

Just so you guys know, I can only suggest using code that I build and rebuilding code like how HP works is a /huge/ change. We should make a separate pole thread with the COMPLETE list of changes (once we've considered everything) to get a consensus.

After all this, I think it can be said that the first thing that should be done is creating NPCs that dish out healerating. (this seems really reasonable to me)
and then
changes to health recovery. (this is a huge one and a bit much when I think about it)
---these changes will literally force players to use a medic NPC or otherwise.

and then
there are the other changes to sleep like drunk sleep and stuff.

[RogueGunslinger]

What if a successful bandage just let you regen HP at any level? None of that magickal instantly-new bullshit that makes no sense. You still need to rest and recover.

[Chettaman]

Also a good idea, but I think it already works like this kind of.
It might be a high level bandage ability or maybe the type of bandage used.