Food Aging -- Discussion Thread

[Harmless]

This is great. I don't mind that it is a preliminary release with simplistic code to start. 36 hours of playtime is a long time especially for me so I don't mind that. I do look forward to this getting refined but for game balance this is a great addition!

[nauta]

As prime minister of the help files party, aka the Biowizard Halflings Party -- we aren't a single issue party, and in fact endorse most of the platform being pushed by Wizturbo's Magickal Faction -- I want to make two little points when you come around to updating HELP FOOD in light of these changes:

1. "Even though a food item might be lightly-spoiled or spoiled, you can still eat it without any negative (coded) effects."  (I can already imagine my newbie self thinking "crap, it's spoiled", and not eating it.)

2. Perhaps consider changing the language from "lightly-spoiled" to "aged" (or something) and "spoiled" to "nearly-spoiled".  (My hunch is newbies will see the word 'spoiled' and avoid the food.)

3. Unrelated to the change (but related to confusions with food for newbies): You might add the following: "Yes, you can eat raw meat, and no it won't have negative coded consequences.  However, please RP responsibly."

4. Bring back halflings.

However, I have a feeling with the 'purely cosmetic at this time' clause that you'all are planning on addressing all three down the road by making there be negative coded consequences for eating spoiled and -- maybe -- raw meats (which would be incredibly cool).  (Although in the latter case, many cultures eat raw meat.)

[RogueGunslinger]

I have mixed feelings, mostly because of how food already works in-game.

Either you are well off, and don't worry about food. Or you're  a noob struggling to get by and have a hard time finding it because you don't know how the game's economy works. There's very little in-between, and the people who were already worrying about food, are now going to get sacked twice as hard. The people who never worried about it will continue not to worry about it.

So, yeah. Mixed feelings.

[Narf]

I have mixed feelings, mostly because of how food already works in-game.

Either you are well off, and don't worry about food. Or you're  a noob struggling to get by and have a hard time finding it because you don't know how the game's economy works. There's very little in-between, and the people who were already worrying about food, are now going to get sacked twice as hard. The people who never worried about it will continue not to worry about it.

So, yeah. Mixed feelings.

I feel like if you can play for a day and a half straight without needing to eat the last of your food you're probably pretty firmly in that first category.

[solera]

But mah kank steak!

[Ath]

From my understanding, food that is in a container in a room and food that is just in a room will degrade in 3 RL days if just left in the room.  Food that is on a PC in a container or inventory will degrade in 3 RL days per when the PC is logged in, when logged out the timer stops.  Food that is in an NPC inventory will not age at all.  I hope this clears things up for you all.

Preservation Methods and Preservation Containers I think are going to be one of the first things you guys will see.  For those of you that are in clans and need to store food for an IC event, I suggest getting with your clan staff, they can make a decision on that.  If you're just looking to store it for no real reason, that's all on you.

Nothing has changed, yet, on how to gather food.  A newb can still gather food however they would normally, and if they keep it in their inventory, it will last for them.  Gameplay wise, a newb isn't going to have an apartment and storing large quantities of food, so this really shouldn't affect them.

The major change I see for this is long term storage of large amounts of food.  Personally, I'm glad to see this come as it leads to a bit more realism and will have an affect on the gameplay of hunting and cooking, along with an affect on the economy.  I see a lot of people keeping more food on their person.  I'm not sure how I like that, but keeping a ton of food on yourself will just make it so you can't carry more, so that may just balance itself out.  Now I love the prospective of the food seller/cook PC, this is much more viable now.

I love that you guys are giving constructive feedback on this, I love the positive and the negative.  Thank you for this, I can promise you it is being read.

[MeTekillot]

Make carrying old food around make you smell bad like carrying poop around does.

[lostinspace]

Does this affect the food in a rations pack before you unwrap it?

[nessalin]

From my understanding, food that is in a container in a room and food that is just in a room will degrade in 3 RL days if just left in the room.  Food that is on a PC in a container or inventory will degrade in 3 RL days per when the PC is logged in, when logged out the timer stops.  Food that is in an NPC inventory will not age at all.  I hope this clears things up for you all.

Food ages in
--Everything that is not a merchant, that is in the game (wether that is a player, container, room, npc or some combination of the above)
Food does not age in
--Merchants

[MeTekillot]

What if I'm a guild_merchant?

[GhostTok]

Does this affect the food in a rations pack before you unwrap it?

[whitt]

Does this affect the food in a rations pack before you unwrap it?

Gonna bet no, because the ration pack is not a food object.  It turns into food objects once it's opened.

[BadSkeelz]

Love it.

As defacto "Magick is awesome" party leader I would like to suggest some new spells surrounding food preservation (or rotting for that matter) be created too.  It would be fairly awesome if certain magickers could curse people/rooms to make food items on them rot.

If magickers get a means of preserving food before mundanes I will fucking eat the next Magicker PC I meet.

[nauta]

Love it.

As defacto "Magick is awesome" party leader I would like to suggest some new spells surrounding food preservation (or rotting for that matter) be created too.  It would be fairly awesome if certain magickers could curse people/rooms to make food items on them rot.

If magickers get a means of preserving food before mundanes I will fucking eat the next Magicker PC I meet.

See.  This is common ground that the three parties (the Biowizard Halflings Party, Wizturbo's Magickal Faction, and Badskeelz Anti-Magickal Party) might find: give magickers the ability to preserve food before mundanes, but allow Badskeelz to play a halfling that only eats magickers.  Diplomacy win.

[nessalin]

Does this affect the food in a rations pack before you unwrap it?

If 'eat' command works on the item, it is food, and will age.

For the rations that the 'eat' command does not work on, those are not food, and will not age.

The items you get out of them will start aging when they are taken out.

Thanks for pointing that out.

[nessalin]

What if I'm a guild_merchant?

In this case, merchants are defined as NPCs that respond to the list/offer/buy/sell commands.

[Ender]

What if I'm a guild_merchant?

Give all your food to merchant NPCs for storage and with your higher starting money you can pay pickpockets to steal it back when you need it.

[BadSkeelz]

Does this affect the food in a rations pack before you unwrap it?

If 'eat' command works on the item, it is food, and will age.

For the rations that the 'eat' command does not work on, those are not food, and will not age.

The items you get out of them will start aging when they are taken out.

Thanks for pointing that out.

Would it be possible to create a crafting recipe for creating such a ration item that isn't technically food? If you have 4 pieces of jerky and some cloth, you could craft them into a rations pack that would not age?

Just one idea for food preservation.

[palomar]

New character concept idea... Preserver. Err, wait.

I like this change.

[RogueGunslinger]

I have mixed feelings, mostly because of how food already works in-game.

Either you are well off, and don't worry about food. Or you're  a noob struggling to get by and have a hard time finding it because you don't know how the game's economy works. There's very little in-between, and the people who were already worrying about food, are now going to get sacked twice as hard. The people who never worried about it will continue not to worry about it.

So, yeah. Mixed feelings.

I feel like if you can play for a day and a half straight without needing to eat the last of your food you're probably pretty firmly in that first category.

I need coffee or something because I think I'm missing your point.

[Armaddict]

Eh.

Hunger code will need adjusting, unless this is an effort to do that whole thing that everyone is ranting about in the retention thread that is 'forcing people to do things at certain times'.

Being able to stockpile some food after each hunting trip was what made you able to use your time as you wished.  If it now spoils unless you lug it around everywhere (in which case you'll still lose it), this is a step in the 'add to chores' category.  I think this is a rather large step towards 'high maintenance', rather than the low maintenance game that has been widely discussed as what people were moving towards.

Edited to add:  It isn't that the realism is bad.  However, pre-emptively putting this part in without all the changes necessary to make playability and and the fully fleshed concept was a little irresponsible, I think.  At the very least, the preserving recipes needed to be marked/flagged...as long as that happens quickly, I can't complain, but if it turns into one of those backburner things that we have to wait a year for, that's going to be a pain-in-the-ass year.

[Saellyn]

If you eat until full it literally takes in game days before you get hungry. I don't really see the problem myself, it adds a sense of realism to the game. My guess is this has something to do with people constantly stockpiling giant masses of food and just having it around. This is a good change. I like this.

[Renenutet]

I think its good stuff but.....If I am hosting a big party and find PC's hunters to get me meat to use at said party..and they get it back to me 4-5 days before the party then I am not going to have food for my event because its now all rotten. The air tight storage containers need to be able to extend this. It would be hella impossible and very risky to hire pcs to gather you food and trust they will be able to log in the day of your event and get you everything you need.

In that situation that situation reach out of to your clan staff.

[nauta]

But mah kank steak!

Hehe, I know you are joking and while I love the change since it'll definitely increase interaction in my view...

but I am a little worried about losing a lot of 'rare' or mastercrafted foods from the game's lore -- of course we can't ever make kank meat or kank honey candies any more, but there are a lot of candies and rare treats that are stashed away in clan compounds (and tribal camps) and used as samples (to determine the recipe without bothering staff about it -- plus if you don't know it exists since it decayed, you won't know to ask staff about the recipe).

Might not be that big of deal on the whole (considering how awesome the change is), but I'll be grabbing every exotic food item I can over the next three days and jotting down its recipe in my notes file.  

All the more reason for that Fale or Borsail noble or Kadian merchant to get their Recipes of Zalanthas book finished!

Perhaps we could have an initial moratorium (or set expiration to after the new year) while we work with clan staff to preserve some of those more rare delicacies?  (I'm thinking of Kadian candies and some of the tribals foodstuffs.)

Also, if it's everything that succumbs to the 'eat' command, does that mean poop objects also decay?  (Once I was spam eating balls and ending up eating some poop.  It turns out you don't insta-die!)

[Armaddict]

If you eat until full it literally takes in game days before you get hungry. I don't really see the problem myself, it adds a sense of realism to the game. My guess is this has something to do with people constantly stockpiling giant masses of food and just having it around. This is a good change. I like this.

Again.  It's a good thing.  It's a bad thing that it's going in while acknowledged as incomplete.  If the rest phases in quickly, it's no big deal and increases the value of 'tasty' versus 'cured', which in turn increases the value of seasonings.  However, in an unfinished state, it is purely chore and inconvenience.