Feedback Poll: A new name for Rebel.

[Rathustra]

The REBEL is a subguild with history. It was introduced to provide Tuluki freedom fighters with a suit of skills that lent themselves to guerrilla warfare against the Allanakki oppressors.

Now, after the passage of several King's Ages, the Rebellion is just a legend. The rebels are all dead. Their camps are long-gone, devoured by the forest. But the spirit of the rebel has lived on, providing a mixture of crafting and wilderness skills to characters all across Zalanthas.

Here's the help file:

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Subguild Rebel                                                    (Subguilds)

  Rebels are skilled in the guerilla arts, including the >ability to
move silently< in the wilderness with a >strong sense of direction<.  
They can construct their own >knives as well as spears<, and they can
>repair armor<.


As part of our subguild spritz, we've given rebels the ability to traverse the rugged terrain in which they're likely to be found hiding, plotting the downfall of oppressive regimes... or possibly just plotting how best to divest wealth from the next lone rider that passes by. We've assembled some possible new names for the subguild here and we'd like you to help us pick one. Please vote!

Also, if you'd like to take a stab at writing a help file for the newly minted subguild, feel free to reply below with your attempt!

Edit: To clarify - the new ability Rebels are being given is the ability to traverse VERTICAL terrain.

[BadSkeelz]

I voted for Outlaw, since these skills are kind of tilted towards avoiding or hunting PCs.

There's no skills that actually let you survive the wasteland itself (i.e. forage) so that name doesn't make much sense to me me.

[Jihelu]

If you gave it riding I feel like drifter would work more.

Outlaw was my vote.

[KankWhisperer]

Take away the crafting and give them a little reduced movement cost for walking outdoors.

[RogueGunslinger]

Not a fan of wastelander. Too fallouty to me. I like outlaw and outcast.

[Norcal]

Guerilla.  Only because none of the other names really ring my chimes. Some imply a certain social stigma.

[Dresan]

The Dune Wanderer:

The dune wanderer is comfortable in the deserts and open spaces of the known, outside the last remaining bastions of civilization. Whether they are raiders, explorers, rebels or just outcasts is a story best told by them. These people have been known to wander through harsh storms without getting lost. Their ability to climb up to find better vantage points or just out of the holes and pits found scattered around the known also assist their survival.  The desert is a dangerous place so they often learn to moving quietly towards a potentially dangerous situation. This often gives the dune wanderer an edge in any encounter against the unwary. Often finding themselves outside of civilization they benefit from learning how to craft their own weapons, such as spears and knives and also maintain their own armor.


Thoughts:
I like the addition of climb, but it needs ride or hide really make it a gem, in exchange for one of those it could lose one of the crafting skills. I vote losing spear-making since making knives is easy and convenient but making a spear sometimes requires help (poles) which goes against the sub-guild theme i feel at least. Armor repair is nice, however it is not something that seems convenient to use without your main guild having skin but still a nice addition.

As nice as wilderness sneak is, its not as amazing as city sneak/hide. It would be okay for elven/breed warriors but not that great for anyone else despite climb, even if I'm playing a sneaky guild, hunter would still be better. If it had the ride or even just wilderness hide skill though, which would fit really well, then it would be a very solid or at least very temping sub-guild for many guild/races.

[Molten Heart]

Take away the crafting and give them a little reduced movement cost for walking outdoors.

I voted for outlaw. When I think of an outlaw I think of a raider type a raider type. I'd choose to replace their crafting skills with subdue and forage food. The food isn't gourmet but it keeps someone alive while in exile.

[Dresan]

I'd prefer Dune wanderer. But failing that I'd go with drifter, since I kinda agree with rogue that waste lander is too Fallout 4.

However all those names would fit the description (drifter less so than wastelander I suppose), I rather not set a job to the sub-guild like raider or outcast but rather leave it open for the player to decide why they find themselves out in the wilds.  

[Lizzie]

Not everyone plays Fallout. The only place I've ever heard the term is in Armageddon. It seems appropriate, to me. Someone who spends a lot of time in the Wastes - is a Wastelander. We have a Wastes - and we've had them since before Fallout was invented. Perhaps if you asked the designers of Fallout, they'd tell you that they heard about the term on Armageddon and thought it was cool so they added it to their game.

Also Dresan, people can call it whatever they want once they're in the game. The point of the thread is to determine what the option title will be in chargen, when the player is asked "which sub-guild will you pick?"

[Dresan]

Also Dresan, people can call it whatever they want once they're in the game. The point of the thread is to determine what the option title will be in chargen, when the player is asked "which sub-guild will you pick?"

The point of the thread is to get feedback on rebel sub-guild's name change, and that is what I'm doing. In my opinion the name wastelander is a bit of a jarring word to say, and not something I'd personally like to see even as the option title.That said, it is not a big deal. You are right after all, i mean no one calls themselves a ranger in the game.  If that is the name everyone wants that is fine, and it does seems to be popular.

But it doesn't change my opinion, and the fact that feedback was asked, and thus given.  So yeah...

[Riev]

I like the idea of Wastelander because it is, in fact, descriptive of the area such a person would be LIKELY to inhabit. It doesn't have a negative connotation like Outlaw or Outcast, Guerilla doesn't make a lot of sense in a desert-like environment, and only Drifter would contend otherwise. But a Wastelander is someone who prefers or actually DOES reside in the wastes, whereas a Drifter would be someone comfortable in them but likely lives somewhere else.

So. I voted Wastelander. If Fallout 4 hadn't just come out I don't know that it'd have the same pushback.

[Armaddict]

I voted outcast, but really I have no qualms with any of the names, including Rebel.

[Dresan]

If Fallout 4 hadn't just come out I don't know that it'd have the same pushback.

Now that is interesting.

I wonder why the environments of Fallout feel like wastes, but the desert-like environments of this game don't bring the word 'wastes' to mind. They certainly can be considered 'wastes' after all. Perhaps it is because despite being dry, harsh, bleak and sometimes barren, its still the environment my characters have grown up in. They don't know the lush forests and rivers I know,or see the many ruins of civilization like in fallout. After all allanak/tuluk/luirs look as good as they ever did. I guess they also know that despite how barren and bleak it can look at times, there are animals to hunt, resources to gather, even water if you know where to look.  I can't help but think to them, it isn't a ruined wasteland, its just home sweet home.

Just idle thoughts, the name doesn't matter, its all good in the end.  

[Patuk]

Fallout's apocalypse is recent. The world is a wasteland because better times are in fresh memory. Zalanthans have lived as they have for over a thousand years; their world simply is.

[CodeMaster]

I like drifter, wastelander.

Related: vagabond, marauder, exile, freebooter ... highwayman.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hi94mMed6EQ

[LauraMars]

They're all such cool names.

WHY NOT JUST NAME IT ALL THOSE NAMES?

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Subguild Outlaw Drifter Highwayman Wastelander Guerrilla Outcast Rebel                                                    (Subguilds)

   Outlaw Drifter Highwayman Wastelander Guerrilla Outcast Rebels are skilled in the guerilla arts, including the >ability to
move silently< in the wilderness with a >strong sense of direction<. 
They can construct their own >knives as well as spears<, and they can
>repair armor< and >traverse vertical terrain<[/quote]

[BadSkeelz]

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Subguild Badass


   Badasses are skilled in the guerilla arts, including the >ability to move silently< in the wilderness with a >strong sense of direction<.
They can construct their own >knives as well as spears, and they can >repair armor< and >traverse vertical terrain<.

[BadSkeelz]

Actual crack at writing a new sguild description

"Rebels are skilled in the guerilla arts, including the ability to move silently in the wilderness with a strong sense of direction. They can even climb vertical terrain, the better to ambush the enemy. Often operating without much support, they are able to craft their own knives and spears and maintain their own armor."

[roughneck]

If we end up with a subguild wastelander, then it should be a little more amped up. I think we should rename outdoorsman to wastelander and rename rebel to outdoorsman. A person who can make a couple of things out of sticks and get around ok is outdoorsy. A person who can ride, move stealthily, use a bow and track and skin animals is truly one at home in the wastes.

I went with outlaw on the poll though, because it makes the most sense given the supposed rebel roots.

[nauta]

Rover, wanderer
Nomad, vagabond
Call me what you will

Whereever I may roam

[TheWanderer]

i suggest the subtraction of drifter and the addition of wanderer to your list.

i would vote for that. in its stead, wastelander

[Case]

Outdoorsboy

[nauta]

Desertman!  (Or Desertboy.)

Or, more seriously, since the original concept motivating the term 'rebel' has dropped out (as Rath said), but the concept seems to still be someone who is not a nomad but still kind of martial: raider.

[The Silence of the Erdlus]

Outlaw seemed the broadest in potential meaning.

[Ender]

I think the only skills I would need on an outlaw subguild for a non-ranger would be climb and wilderness quit.  If there a subguild that only had those two, I'd take it, even if it didn't have directional sense or any of the other skills rebel already has.

[Desertman]

Yeah if we are going to do "Outlaw", wilderness quit seems like a necessity in a lot of ways. Outlaws aren't exactly the "Put Down Roots" sorts usually.

[RogueGunslinger]

Wilderness quit seems nearly trivial these days to me. You just need to know where the wilderness quit rooms are. And if they're too dangerous or far to get to you can quit OOC. I'd never take a subguild with only climb and wilderness quit.

[Delirium]

You clearly overestimate how available quit rooms are and underestimate how suddenly/frequently people might need to log out.

You can't quit OOC twice in a row, either.

There are classes and subguilds that absolutely should have wilderness quit yet ranger is the only one with access to it.

Just make it so everyone can quit out everywhere and call it a wrap. Quitting is an OOC mechanism, not an IC one.

[nauta]

You clearly overestimate how available quit rooms are and underestimate how suddenly/frequently people might need to log out.

You can't quit OOC twice in a row, either.

There are classes and subguilds that absolutely should have wilderness quit yet ranger is the only one with access to it.

Just make it so everyone can quit out everywhere and call it a wrap. Quitting is an OOC mechanism, not an IC one.

Related: RGS's solution privileges veterans over novices, since it relies on knowledge of where Quit rooms are.  I had a recent case where I wanted to explore a certain area (that didn't have quit rooms very close by) but my busy schedule meant I pretty much couldn't.  I'm all sorts of for more wilderness quit, for casuals, those of us with busy schedules, and also, especially, for outlaws -- raiders need all the help they can get.  (You could call it Inlaw instead of Outlaw: for when the inlaws come.)

[RogueGunslinger]

I agree people should be able to quit ooc as many times in a row as they want.

But I'm just going to go ahead and quote myself here.

Wilderness quit seems nearly trivial these days to me.

I wasn't giving any solutions, I was explaining why a subguild with only wilderness quit and climb would be incredibly unappealing... to me.

[ghostymudy]

Outdoorsboy

Why not Outdoorsgirl?     I'm so fucking triggered.

Check your fucking privilege, patriarchy sympathising slumlord/lady/xad.

[hopeandsorrow]

You clearly overestimate how available quit rooms are and underestimate how suddenly/frequently people might need to log out.

You can't quit OOC twice in a row, either.

There are classes and subguilds that absolutely should have wilderness quit yet ranger is the only one with access to it.

Just make it so everyone can quit out everywhere and call it a wrap. Quitting is an OOC mechanism, not an IC one.

This... please.

I play lots of rangers, beyond their awesome skill set.  Wilderness quit is too much of... a need some days for me.

It's that or risking a character every time my toddler tries to sneak out of bed at midnight or my cat decided to lock himself in mortal combat with a lamp.  I'm sure any parent/pet owner could sympathize.

[Case]

Outdoorsboy

Why not Outdoorsgirl?     I'm so fucking triggered.

Check your fucking privilege, patriarchy sympathising slumlord/lady/xad.

Girls have the house servant and apothecary options!

[Case]

Check your fucking privilege, patriarchy sympathising slumlord/lady/xad.

They're called Founding Fathers for a reason yo

[Jingo]

Still no female rulers in Zalanthas.

[LauraMars]

Let's stay on topic please

[Malken]

Outlaw makes it sound too much like it would come with steal and pistol-whipping.

[Inks]

Outlaw makes much more sense than Wastelander. I mean this class doesn't come with skin or food forage. Pretty simple.

[Malken]

Outdoorsman-lite, then.

[AdamBlue]

Is there an extended subguild that gives food forage, climb, direction sense, and outdoor quit?

[BadSkeelz]

Is there an extended subguild that gives food forage, climb, direction sense, and outdoor quit?

There are no subguilds, extended or otherwise, that give outdoor quit.

I think Grebber gives everything else you ask for.

Outlaw makes it sound too much like it would come with steal and pistol-whipping.

If Outlaw/Rebel and Thug were combined into an extended "Raider" subguild...

Kick subdue flee sap wilderness-sneak climb direction-sense armor-repair spear+knife-making.... Mmmm.....

[Inks]

Just wanted to say rebel will be a real powerhouse now.

Now give Acrobat throw please.

[lostinspace]

I played a pretty long lived character with the rebel subguild a while ago. I think the addition to climb is HUGE. I'm honestly a little worried about the power of this subguild if it has access to climb as well now, let alone giving it wilderness quit. I'll probably respond in 3-4 hours with a writeup for the help file.

That said my personal preference is wastelander. I think the names Outlaw and Guerilla are bad names for the same reason that you are moving away from the name Rebel. Outcast and Drifter are fine names, and I only picked Wastelander over them because I like the sound of it. I think the new name should definitely NOT imply a militant outlaw background, because it should be left to the character to do that if they so chose.

If I could pick any name to give the Rebel, it would be Pioneer. The definition of pioneer is "a plant or animal capable of establishing itself in a bare, barren, or open area and initiating an ecological cycle ".
This impresses the idea that the subguild is for those that want to explore and interact with the wastes, perhaps even spend long times away from established towns and cities, and it lets you, by allowing you to fix your gear and make new gear as stuff breaks down.

[BadSkeelz]

If I could pick any name to give the Rebel, it would be Pioneer. The definition of pioneer is "a plant or animal capable of establishing itself in a bare, barren, or open area and initiating an ecological cycle ".
This impresses the idea that the subguild is for those that want to explore and interact with the wastes, perhaps even spend long times away from established towns and cities, and it lets you, by allowing you to fix your gear and make new gear as stuff breaks down.

My objection to "Pioneer" is the same as "Wastelander": nothing this subguild has actually allows you to establish or survive in the wasteland. You don't have forage food and water, you don't have hunt.

The subguild's built for foot travel through the wilderness while evading detection.

[KankWhisperer]

Explorer.

[RogueGunslinger]

If I could pick any name to give the Rebel, it would be Pioneer. The definition of pioneer is "a plant or animal capable of establishing itself in a bare, barren, or open area and initiating an ecological cycle ".
This impresses the idea that the subguild is for those that want to explore and interact with the wastes, perhaps even spend long times away from established towns and cities, and it lets you, by allowing you to fix your gear and make new gear as stuff breaks down.

My objection to "Pioneer" is the same as "Wastelander": nothing this subguild has actually allows you to establish or survive in the wasteland. You don't have forage food and water, you don't have hunt.

The subguild's built for foot travel through the wilderness while evading detection.

Scout.

[lostinspace]

Scout.

Actually yes, this is pretty much perfect.

[BadSkeelz]

Scout.

I like it. Not sure I like it more than Outlaw, but I like it better than the other choices.

[Inks]

Scout.

I like it. Not sure I like it more than Outlaw, but I like it better than the other choices.

[lostinspace]

Scouts have existed as long as people have roamed the wastes, setting out ahead of others, steps light to avoid unwanted attention. There self reliance doesn't end there however, as often they are provisioned sparingly. It's not unusual for a scout to have to maintain their own armor and create replacement weapons as theirs are lost and damaged. Even high cliffs and harsh storms can't stop the scout, who conquers these challenges through determination and skill, all to ensure safe passage to those who follow.

[RogueGunslinger]

Hell yeah.

Could you imagine if it had wilderness scan for those pesky spiders and kagors. That would be sexy.

[Malken]

I think that a "Pioneer" subguild would be great and could come with a lot of extras that are not usually available to normal subguilds - BUT

The downside of all these extras would come at price that for every outside rooms you move into, you have a 1% chance of dying instantly to dysentery.

[Riev]

I think that a "Pioneer" subguild would be great and could come with a lot of extras that are not usually available to normal subguilds - BUT

The downside of all these extras would come at price that for every outside rooms you move into, you have a 1% chance of dying instantly to dysentery.

Here lies Andee, tandu sasuage and flame chease.

[Armaddict]

I like scout better than the other options.

[Rathustra]

Congratulations to OUTLAW - I suppose history has not been kind to the armed insurgents of the north. It was a close one though - with a single determining vote swaying it.

Thanks for taking part in the discussion and offering suggestions on how the subguild can be developed. Look out for the new Outlaw subguild in our subguild renovations.

[Adhira]

Subguild Renovations still on track - ETA during Adhira's holiday time vacation