Time Dilation in Armageddon

[wizturbo]

How quickly events occur in Armageddon is an important, but difficult to balance game systems choice.  Having things take longer adds realism, but also adds inconvenience.  For instance if there was a longer delay before and after you walk into a room it might take 20 minutes to walk across Allanak.  That might be realistic, but 99% of the time, that 20 minutes would be pretty boring.  Boring and games don't mix well, so it's natural that most activities in Armageddon are tilted towards fast.  Most times you play, fast is better.  But fast does create some very big consequences when it comes to potentially tense moments. 

In large scale (or even small scale) "real" combat situations, the speed everything happens makes it very difficult for players to feel like they're playing their character.  The same can be true for non-combat tense situations, like a chase scene.  Right now, chasing someone is virtually impossible because there's very little lag between movement.  Run one second before the other player, and you've effectively gotten away already.  The same can be said about following someone.  You don't have much time to react to stop following someone going a place you don't want to go.  Ever take a lethal poison, and die before you could even get the cure out of your bag?  I've seen it happen numerous times.

In these tense situations, having things slow down would be really great.  Actually allowing time for emotes, says, or a little time to choose what actions to take, would vastly improve the quality of these scenes.  But as stated above, the trade-off of having these wait times being around all the time is too great...  But what if there was a way to slow things down temporarily for specific characters, rooms, or regions?  What if this was something that any player can trigger, or staff could use? 

About to try and mug someone?  Initiate time dilation to slow things down, to give everyone enough time to roleplay the scene properly.  In a big, spammy combat RPT?  Time dilation could make that spam far more manageable for everyone involved...  I doubt anyone would mind if the combat portion of the combat RPT took 10 minutes instead of 2...  keep in mind, this would only slow down coded actions, not emotes/says/etc.

I think you all get the jist of it?  Thoughts?

[BadSkeelz]

Edit: Unfortunately there's no way our codebase can support what you're suggesting.

I think the damage of some things could be toned down a bit, just to give you some chance of escaping.

Things that can near instantaneously kill a character, even skilled or well-stated ones, deserve scrutiny.

[KankWhisperer]

I'd be so paranoid when time started dilating. One time dilation per person per week?

[wizturbo]

I think it could be done actually...  I'm not saying slow the entire game down.  I mean, have the wait times for coded actions become variable rather than fixed.  

If walking has a 1 second delay on it now, time dilation being 'active' on that character would mean it actually takes 5 seconds instead (if it were 20% dilation).  The same would apply to all coded actions with delays on them.   I'm not pretending it wouldn't be a difficult thing to code...it wouldn't be a minor project, not by a longshot, but I think it would add a tremendous amount to the game.  Combat RPT's would be far more enjoyable, conflict moments wouldn't feel so abrupt and anti-climactic...etc

[RogueGunslinger]

Very interesting concept, I like it.

[wizturbo]

I'd be so paranoid when time started dilating. One time dilation per person per week?

Heh, me too.  But I think that paranoia would be awesome...  I'd probably trigger it once in a while just if I felt there was a chance something was going to get violent.  All of my interactions with Templars, Soldiers, etc...  Keep in mind, it'd only slow down coded actions, not emotes/says.  You could have time dilation going the entire time you're having a conversation with someone and never notice until you get up to leave.

[Erythil]

Haven (yeah yeah I know) has a system whereby you can choose to slow down combat to different speeds, allowing 2 minutes or so between attacks for emotes in a turn-based system.  Player movement speed is also a tracked stat, so it is very easy to figure who 'should' be catchable, and who would logically get away, because the code makes it possible for them to be caught or not.  In armageddon it'd come down to some kind of annoying courtesy system whereby the person running thinks they should escape, and the person chasing thinks they should not.  I don't know how you'd do this with our current system.  Opposed agility rolls?

Unfortunately we have a hack and slash system that is very dependent on tons of hits and dodges being exchanged, so I don't see a tabletop pace being feasible in the current system.

What I can and do support, though, is slowing things down when you know admins are watching and 'running' things.  I've received cues during RPTs I've led in the past along the lines of 'please wait for us to respond in between moving through rooms' or 'this is real time, do it at your pace' and these were fairly helpful.

[Refugee]

You know how in the big spammy RPTs, three pages of stuff can go by before the command you entered actually happens?  Seems like the code that actually kills you could already have executed before you even realize you've been hurt.  It's difficult as a leader when you're trying to keep track of your troops and give orders that are relevant in any way.

If we slow it down, though...that delay between when you hit enter and when the action actually comes to screens might stretch to such a point that you feel entirely helpless to affect the combat (even though the amount of turns would be the same).  I don't know what the fix is. 

SoI had a handy leader command that let you see the general health of all the people in your group in a list, which was helpful in making instant decisions in big fights, especially if you were handling NPCs in the fight as well.

I love the big spammy fights though!  The focus is intense.

[LauraMars]

SoI also had a combat system that was much more slow-paced - if you went to attack someone, you wouldn't just instantly attack them - there would be a "you move towards the target" - then the other guy can react, either fight you or run away, whatever.  I feel pretty much exactly like wizturbo does - like the big spammy combat rpts make it hard for me to follow the action, especially when there's like 20 guys in the room fighting 5 monsters or other things. I just feel like I'm watching a screen of scrolling text.  Not gonna lie, it's a little bit of a bummer, but it's also not really anyone's fault.  It's just that arcade thing our code does.

Time dilation is a cool idea, I like it.

[Jihelu]

Whenever I'm even in a room with more than ten people I basically just give the fuck up on reading things.
Time might help that.

[CodeMaster]

You know how in the big spammy RPTs, three pages of stuff can go by before the command you entered actually happens?  Seems like the code that actually kills you could already have executed before you even realize you've been hurt.  It's difficult as a leader when you're trying to keep track of your troops and give orders that are relevant in any way.

If we slow it down, though...that delay between when you hit enter and when the action actually comes to screens might stretch to such a point that you feel entirely helpless to affect the combat (even though the amount of turns would be the same).  I don't know what the fix is. 

SoI had a handy leader command that let you see the general health of all the people in your group in a list, which was helpful in making instant decisions in big fights, especially if you were handling NPCs in the fight as well.

I love the big spammy fights though!  The focus is intense.

Had some thoughts about this once:

Dusty Plains [NESW]
A bloody skirmish ensues nearby.

> enter skirmish
You enter the skirmish [in a random location ...
  ... but probably closer to a couple of your allies]
A Bloody Skirmish [NESW]
You stand in the midst of a bloody skirmish, generically described.
The tall, muscular man is standing here.
The scarred, muscular man is standing here.

> follow muscular
You now follow the tall, muscular man.

The tall, muscular man walks north.
The scarred, muscular man walks north.
You can't get to the front lines in that direction.
 [only a limited number of PCs per clan are allowed in each room]

> look north
[Very Far]
Nothing.
[Far]
Nothing.
[Near]
The tall, muscular man is here, fighting the stout dwarf.
The scarred, muscular man is here, fighting the stout dwarf.
The stout dwarf is here, fighting the tall, muscular man.

The scarred dwarf has arrived from the east.
The peg-legged dwarf has arrived from the east.

The scarred dwarf charges into you, knocking you over.

The tall, muscular man has arrived from the north.
The tall, muscular man crumples to the ground.

[CodeMaster]

SoI also had a combat system that was much more slow-paced - if you went to attack someone, you wouldn't just instantly attack them - there would be a "you move towards the target" - then the other guy can react, either fight you or run away, whatever.  I feel pretty much exactly like wizturbo does - like the big spammy combat rpts make it hard for me to follow the action, especially when there's like 20 guys in the room fighting 5 monsters or other things. I just feel like I'm watching a screen of scrolling text.  Not gonna lie, it's a little bit of a bummer, but it's also not really anyone's fault.  It's just that arcade thing our code does.

Time dilation is a cool idea, I like it.

Yeah, brief combat doesn't cover these situations (who even misses when it's 5vs1), maybe it needs a big brother, brief battle or something.

[Rokal]

SoI also had a combat system that was much more slow-paced - if you went to attack someone, you wouldn't just instantly attack them - there would be a "you move towards the target" - then the other guy can react, either fight you or run away, whatever.  I feel pretty much exactly like wizturbo does - like the big spammy combat rpts make it hard for me to follow the action, especially when there's like 20 guys in the room fighting 5 monsters or other things. I just feel like I'm watching a screen of scrolling text.  Not gonna lie, it's a little bit of a bummer, but it's also not really anyone's fault.  It's just that arcade thing our code does.

Time dilation is a cool idea, I like it.

Exactly my thoughts!

[nauta]

What if...

everything coded slowed down about one second, from movement on up to combat turns?  Just one little second.

(I'm sure there's been twenty years of calibration going into it, but I too have felt that combat and movement outside the gates is just too fast.)

Time dilation would be epic.  (Related idea: a gamewide pause button.  Hey!  Who hit pause?)

[seidhr]

It could be like Max Payne!  (didn't read thread)

[MeTekillot]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zEH_LSL4rVw

[Saellyn]

Now I'm just imagining a Max Payne moment from the eyes of a Ranger as he nocks arrows and looses them within fractional seconds of each other.

[Marauder Moe]

The idea of increasing combat delays based on the number of players/entities in a room is interesting.

[Armaddict]

As long as we code it into the game to play a sound effect like the matrix whenever time dilates.

Honestly...having been discussing the 'raider/raidee' problem, something that slowed down pvp conflicts would be interesting.  On one hand, it will slow everything down so that people don't feel so forced to go for quickness.  On the other...there are a lot of situations where the element of surprise is the only advantage you have (this is often the case, when you're someone who does not train combat; every time you fight someone, it's with no additional training since the last time you fought someone for your life or theirs).  I'm not sure if I'm for being able to nullify that element of surprise that easily.

That is a very shallow thought over it, because I am working on things.

[Harmless]

Finding some way of limiting the number of mobs engaged at once would be very helpful. Alternatively if the game calculated a penalty to your odds of having a chance to hit for every other combatant also trying to attack your target. that would reduce screen scroll and unrealistic 12 on 1 dogpiles where everyone somehow simultaneously can reach the opponent for an attack. Long jabbing weapons like polearms and spears with two handed grip could get a bonus as many pikemen can attack a target even over the shoulders of their sword wielding comrades. Large swinging weapons would have a penalty to getting a chance to strike. If you are one of the first to engage you do not get this penalty. If you are being attacked by the target you do not get this penalty. etc.

[Majikal]

The idea of increasing combat delays based on the number of players/entities in a room is interesting.

This. Though it'd still be weird to balance with things like archery. So maybe similar to some other code I know arm does support that effects a 3x3 area when a big group is coming through? Would also have a way of clueing a lone rider in on the fact that he's being trailed by a big mass of riders when his delays start picking up, giving him time to notice something that should be obvious, a posse/army/group nearby. This would also decrease the rape-factor of posse rides up on a lone bandit and wtfscreenscrolls his ass with charges/bashes/dual wielding choppities. Something I'm oddly in favor of, despite enjoying that shock and awe tactic of facerolling a lone target with sheer numbers.

I think it has potential.