Player retention and you: brainstorming

[picklehead]

So we've got a way to get people 'into' the game easily...how do you get them to stay?

Replicate the atmosphere of the game in 2013.

You can't. It's not possible. Many of the staffers that contributed to 2013 being as popular as it was, are no longer on staff. There is a whole other set of staffers that are here now, that weren't staff then. Several veterans that contributed to it - are no longer playing. There is a whole new set of players who are playing, who weren't then.

The volcano was in a different place. Tuluk was not only still open, but so were Hlum nobles, and a couple of houses that have since been "absorbed" into other houses.

You'd basically have to completely retcon the game, re-create the same staff and playerbase, make them all the same relative age with the same relative state of employment/marriage/children (so that they can't say "sorry - got twins/a job/family obligations now, didn't 2 years ago, can't play like I used to"), and everyone involved would have to be 100% perfectly okay with the idea that their characters, which were alive then and aren't even in the database anymore, have to be recreated and they have to continue playing them.

Are you for real?

[Inks]

^

[Jihelu]

Coded limitations and blockages make me want to physically maim a small child and the only reason I even get on anymore seems to be to interact with people.

What are skills.

[Patuk]

I think retaining people might be a lot easier if it weren't so important to be an insomniac from America's pacific regions.

[The Silence of the Erdlus]

More games that can be played by oneself.

Only game I know of this type is Giant's Fist.

More games, period.

I would love to see a plethora of coded games added in, or just a few, to help kill time.

Sure you can gamble in Storm, but by the time you figure it out you're waiting on that whiran special app.

[Dresan]

I really wish this game would stop giving out account notes. There is this other mud game I used to play, once upon a time it had up to 100 people logging in. One of the main factors for its downfall to about 10-20 people at peak time, is that it has something akin to account notes.

Account notes are often full of short comments that can easily be taken out of context. Not to mention they are often very negative if not outright snarky.

I'm not saying staff shouldn't have these for their own records but they should stop showing them to players. If a person wants to improve their RP, they can ask to speak to a staff member who would gather information and have a honest, friendly conversation with them about how they can improve but please no more account notes.  

This game also needs to have a discussion on karma again. There has got to be a better system we can use to measure faith in players then this clearly biased system. It breeds toxicity and elitism because it rarely seems fair.

Frankly I would almost rather everyone have to special app for non-mundane roles if it meant we could move away from karma.  

[Jihelu]

Trusting players and making a very competent application process would encourage good roleplay and reward good players.

Or people would just lie then max fireball people.
Then again you could just monitor people who aren't trustworthy but ech.

[whitt]

I really wish this game would stop giving out account notes.

This is probably not a bad idea.  Though some sort of feedback loop is helpful.

[Nergal]

With regards to account notes, the intent is to have it open as an option for people who want to see them. Those who don't want to see them never have to, since the notes and karma review are separated from each other. Submitting either type of request comes with the assumption that you can accept the constructive feedback you're likely to receive if staff feel you can improve. We don't set out to hurt anyone's feelings with notes, just to record what we see. They are short because they are limited in length - setting a note requires putting in a command while we're logged into the game, and the command length is limited to a certain length.

[Dresan]

The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

The other game gave them out because they thought people enjoyed reading them and would use them to improve. They always ignored how much bitterness and resentment grew out of those comments.

Its a bad idea.

There are better ways to deliver 'constructive' criticism.

[zanthalandreams]

Submitting either type of request comes with the assumption that you can accept the constructive feedback you're likely to receive if staff feel you can improve.

I never knew that was the assumption.  There really isn't anything formed in the way of feedback in either the account notes I've read (going back fifteen or so years) or the karma reviews I've received.   I could infer from some of the comments what was seen (at that time, by whatever individual placed the note) as being positive or negative enough to note.   

So if there isn't any constructive feed back, does that mean nobody felt I could improve? 

[Nergal]

If there's no constructive feedback, that means there's nothing specific that we feel needs improvement. Our goal is to help a player improve and have fun, whether we provide constructive feedback or not. If you specifically don't want constructive feedback, then I suppose you could write in your karma review request you don't want any. I don't think I've ever seen anyone do that, though, because they either want karma or advice on how to improve. And account notes requests are purely a request for a dump of the account notes, without additional comment. That's for the sake of transparency.

[nauta]

Here are my thoughts on Account Notes/Staff Feedback Device:

I think a few things could change with regard to the 'account notes' system.  Some of these might be implemented already, but at least with me weren't done.

If a note gets entered into the pinfo (or whatever the technical name for that file is, where there's that coded limitation):

1.staff also enters that note (probably expanded) somewhere in the 'report tool', say 'Player Account Notes', so you can do: was twinking the dummy again 11/12/2012 (see #2345) in the pinfo and then expand on it in the report tool

2. if the prior note is neutral or negative in tone, this note must be positive (the goal being a one-for-one of negative/disciplinary to positive/encouraging)

3. staff inform the player via an e-mail that 'A note has been added to the file.  Would you like to enter into a discussion about it?'  (This could be automated.)

(You could combine [1] and [3] by having the note be entered into the Question/Request feature, perhaps with a special [Account Notes] in the 'subject' field.)

Basically, if you are going to say something about us in the hopes of us improving or by way of encouragement -- if you are going to provide us with feedback -- (1) it should be more than a one-sentence aphorism, (2) it should both be positive and negative (the goal is to encourage and enforce), and (3) we should know about it at the time, and not after the fact.

[Nergal]

For what it's worth, we already do #3 as a matter of policy. Staff need to inform the player after leaving a negative note in their account notes.

[nauta]

For what it's worth, we already do #3 as a matter of policy. Staff need to inform the player after leaving a negative note in their account notes.

That's a good policy.  Mine must have slipped through the cracks.

[Riev]

For what it's worth, we already do #3 as a matter of policy. Staff need to inform the player after leaving a negative note in their account notes.

That's a good policy.  Mine must have slipped through the cracks.

I've had a few that have slipped through the cracks. So far as Account Notes, I just wish there was a process to... I don't know. Appeal? I had a PC once who had subguild tailor, and after a long time he finally decided to buy himself a length of silk and make some nice sleeves. Just to feel special (this was in Tuluk). He was also a pickpocket, but this didn't matter. One day he saw a Legionnaire weapon on the ground (likely from a criminal arrest) so he picked it up, and returned it to a Legionnaire. There's now a "neutral" account note that ends with "I guess this is okay in post-flood Tuluk".

Is it negative? No. Has it kept me from sponsored roles? No, my own actions do that. But this note really doesn't serve much purpose, and when I look at it, it looks like "I stepped in for a moment, had no sense of what was going on, decided to leave a note instead of investigate".

[Old Kank]

I hate talking with the staff.  Absolutely hate it.  I've been hesitant to post about this because I don't have some constructive idea or criticism to follow with, but most of my breaks from the game have come as a direct consequence of dealing with staff, so it's very apropos.

I don't hate the staff.  I don't have a grudge against the staff.  I think they do a pretty good job, overall.  I don't think I have a bad relationship with staff.  But I hate talking to the staff.

Why?  Staff hold all the power in interactions.  Interactions with staff are far more likely to spiral down into negativity than turn into something positive.  Same old story we've heard a dozen other times. 

But in my opinion this problem is compounded by the bureaucratic system we now have.  All of this account notes, player notes bullshit.  It reminds me of that inescapable, mythical permanent record they used to scare grade school kids with.  Now your every action and communication is reviewed by committee, and saved for later review by a bunch of strangers I couldn't pick out of a crowd.  There are no appeals, and even if there were - in my experience - explaining your side to the staff is about as effective as hitting a brick wall.  The whole system is heartless, and it's getting harder and harder to avoid.

I don't even know how to try and build bridges with the staff any more.  I've offered to volunteer my time for the game and been turned down for stupid bureaucratic stuff.  Submit more reports to the scrutiny of the all-knowing committee judgement?  No thanks.  I'll just try and play and keep my head down.

I don't know of a solution.  Better public relations?  Expiration of old records?  Better volunteer management that isn't tied to specific staff projects?  Require clear-cut constructive objectives for every rejection or negative response?  Maybe the staff could have a bigger out-of-game presence, like a steam group or something?

[In Dreams]

Old Kank's post is a lot of how I feel.

Personally, I don't know if the staff likes me. I don't know if they dislike me. I've never looked at my account notes and probably never will, because it scares me that their opinion of me will in some way affect my roleplay. I'm just here to play. I don't need many peoples' opinions of it if I'm having fun, but I feel like if the staff didn't like me I think I'd be crushed and paranoid and I'd run away to hide from it.

I don't like the whole idea of a permanent record there and I'm pretty afraid of how it would affect my experience on Armageddon.

[Nergal]

I'm not sure what we can do if you hate talking to the staff so much that you stop trying. If you are willing to give it a try, now would be the best time to do it. Things have changed over the years and so have staff members. Maybe you'll have better luck trying again?

Also, no one on staff cares about old negative notes if they don't reflect who you are as a player now. If anything, such notes show the extent to which you've improved as a player - which is a good thing, IMO.

[Armaddict]

Also, no one on staff cares about old negative notes if they don't reflect who you are as a player now. If anything, such notes show the extent to which you've improved as a player - which is a good thing, IMO.

This is true, in my experience.

However, it is also true that a lot of negative notes seem terribly out of context.

I have a note on one of my characters about how my weapon skill was high for how far along into the character I was, and so I was penalized by having blood_loss code added.  However...the reason my piercing weapon skill was high was because I sat in a staff-run lesson on that weapon skill through a buff npc to his minions.  He used teach on me as well, since I was there.  (This was a long time ago, so don't start jumping in on this like 'THIS HAPPENS?!' because it doesn't anymore.  Heh.)  So basically, I was given a boon, then penalized for it, and slapped with a long lasting note about it.

[Centurion]

Man... how cool would it be for some Captain NPC or even higher type rank in the Byn, Legion, or Arm to have come along and done that these days... so much communication has been taken out of the game, and taken to an OOC level. I get why, because it's much easier to track and easier to respond to and deal with, but still... it's fun to have the face to face with your bosses, and communication can then actually have a chance to be intercepted by outsiders.

[Fergie]

I just thought I'd mention to any "disgruntled" ex-players that Nyr's invitation to contact him is not sincere. You'll get a dismissive one-line response.

[Jave]

Also, no one on staff cares about old negative notes if they don't reflect who you are as a player now. If anything, such notes show the extent to which you've improved as a player - which is a good thing, IMO.

This is very, very true. A lot of us on staff have negative account notes somewhere in the history of our player accounts. I know it can be annoying to look at and see in the record, and I know you can feel like it's not fair, or was out of context.

But as Nergal pointed out, these notes actually help more than players seem to believe they hurt. If anything, it provides a point of reference against which to justify improvement when it comes time to consider sponsored roles, karma, staff applications, etc.

[KankWhisperer]

I'm not sure what we can do if you hate talking to the staff so much that you stop trying. If you are willing to give it a try, now would be the best time to do it. Things have changed over the years and so have staff members. Maybe you'll have better luck trying again?

Also, no one on staff cares about old negative notes if they don't reflect who you are as a player now. If anything, such notes show the extent to which you've improved as a player - which is a good thing, IMO.

Nergal is pretty chill. I'm like hey this makes sense for these reasons. He's like 'word'. Done.

[BadSkeelz]

Staff are generally pretty cool if you act like an adult and not have this weird persecution-martyrdom complex.