Player retention and you: brainstorming

[Jave]

I did that in school, when nobody minded if I was logging in for 10-15 minutes in the back of class.  You can't really do that with most real jobs.  Also, you can't really do that in most clans where there is a schedule you have to keep to, which prevents you from practicing those miscellaneous skills, unless you just routinely and blatantly violate the rules.

When I've been in jobs that don't allow for that I just ended up doing it in the evening when I got home and was doing other stuff around the house.

[Riev]

The fundamental idea here, unless I'm missing it, is that the aging core player base does not have the time to play every day. There are some that (thankfully) are able to make it a "I play an hour a night, but its the same hour" so you can interact with them and such, but we don't all have the ability to play/idle at work, and I don't even have a FAMILY yet but I don't always have the time to schlub around Arm waiting on skill timers and hoping someone cool logs in.

For some people, Arm is just absolutely unplayable without skills. For others, skills are the complete antithesis of the game and only get in the way of what they want to convey. Some Arm players are artists, and writers, and Dungeon Masters. Others (like me) are players that want to feel a sense of accomplishment to go along with the time we invest.

I'm not entirely convinced the idea of offline skill training would be the best way to go about it, but maybe like for every RL day you're logged off, the next trigger of a skill gain ups the skill gain by like .5 (or something). To just help the "I can't log in every day to get that 1 skill fail an hour so fuck this character" ennui. Even if it was a full extra skill point every RL day you don't log in, it'd take 2 weeks of NOT. PLAYING. AT ALL. to maybe get enough of a boost to go up a skill tier. I'd like to think most "average" players could get a skill tier in 2 weeks?

[Molten Heart]

Clearly some have concerns, telling others their ideas are bad or invalid because they don't match up with our own experiences work against the whole brainstorming process by shutting down creativity. Maybe many ideas here have problems and those problems will either prevent them from being adopted or be resolved, maybe resolved by more brainstorming but no ideas will be created here if they're shut down at the beginning. This is just brainstorming people. Be easy, it's all cool.

[Molten Heart]

Making the game experience better for casuals has come up before.  I posted some suggestions on it above.  You also might find this interesting:

http://gdb.armageddon.org/index.php?topic=36148.0

It's a tough question, but I think everyone can agree on one thing: if there's a way to make the game better for casuals so that more people can play in a balanced fashion, then that's all for the better.

Bumping this because it fell off the last page and there are some good ideas in the linked thread.

[Kronibas]

I think some people are of the mindset that everything and everyone is awful and will twist almost any scenario to reinforce their own bias.

I don't think there's a lot we can do to change the minds of people who think like that and while I can't speak for other staff, I personally don't care all that much to try. Easily the biggest 'negative' of staffing is reading the staggering amounts of mind-blowingly toxic vitriol some people direct at us.

I would rather spend my time adding neat things to the game, helping the players in my clans do fun stuff, animating for/helping newbies, or just playing the game than subject myself to reasoning with people who are so determined to lay on the soul-crushing hatred, often without all the facts and often in spite of the reality of a situation.

You should not be shocked that players get pissed when they are treated like ignorant pieces of shit.

I mean, I very seriously doubt that many people react negatively to staff just for the fun of it.

Do you really think players get pissed off without good reason?  I mean, do you really think some of the viqrol is unjustified?

Maybe people should take accountability for their bad attitudes, but unfortunately this does not fall solely on players. The shadowboard did not form just because of a bunch of bad apples... It happened because there was genuinely some clownish shit going on.

If you guys really think the burden of the problem rests solely on players, let me know so I can quit playing again.

[Nergal]

Mordiggian didn't say (two months ago) that he thought that. If that's what you get out of that post, it reinforces his assertion that sometimes players get mad and lash out without re-assessing things first. Sometimes staff do that too. We're only human.

I would ask you read his post more closely and determine if your post is a sensible response to his.

Fortunately, we're fairly well-equipped to talk with players who are level-headed and fair, with the same level-headedness and fairness. Even if players aren't doing that, staff strive to be level-headed and fair regardless. And provided that there's mutual respect on both ends, there's a lot we can get done - even if players and staff disagree from time to time. I think that this is something that has improved over time, on both sides, and is pretty good right now.

[Majikal]

First kronibas was like

and then I was like.


And then Nergal posted what I was already typing.


In my personal experience the game seems to have only improved over the five or so years as has every dealing I've had with staff. Then again, so has my communication with staff. Coincidence?

[Iiyola]

I think some people are of the mindset that everything and everyone is awful and will twist almost any scenario to reinforce their own bias.

I don't think there's a lot we can do to change the minds of people who think like that and while I can't speak for other staff, I personally don't care all that much to try. Easily the biggest 'negative' of staffing is reading the staggering amounts of mind-blowingly toxic vitriol some people direct at us.

I would rather spend my time adding neat things to the game, helping the players in my clans do fun stuff, animating for/helping newbies, or just playing the game than subject myself to reasoning with people who are so determined to lay on the soul-crushing hatred, often without all the facts and often in spite of the reality of a situation.

You should not be shocked that players get pissed when they are treated like ignorant pieces of shit.

I mean, I very seriously doubt that many people react negatively to staff just for the fun of it.

Do you really think players get pissed off without good reason?  I mean, do you really think some of the viqrol is unjustified?

Maybe people should take accountability for their bad attitudes, but unfortunately this does not fall solely on players. The shadowboard did not form just because of a bunch of bad apples... It happened because there was genuinely some clownish shit going on.
playing again.

Was.

That's the keyword here. There have been a LOT of improvement for the past 1-2 years both on the GDB as well as in game. But some people keep being bitter. They have to bitch about SOMETHING. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

There have been issues in the past but keep in mind, he who casts the first stone... some players are just pretty damn difficult to work with.

If you guys really think the burden of the problem rests solely on players, let me know so I can quit playing again.

And point in case right there ^. Fucking play the game or don't. No one forces you to.

[LauraMars]

Kinda off topic but thinking of Kronibas as Princess Bubblegum got a big laugh out of me

[Jingo]

I mean, do you really think some of the viqrol is unjustified?

some of the viqrol is unjustified?

the viqrol

(Magick)
The spheres of magick can be easily thought of as schools of certain magickal types. In the distant past, it is believed, mages pursued only one sphere of magick. The true names these symbol represent are likely to be of powerful demielemental beings who perform the task of tying the aspects (moods) to elementally-composed forms (physical bodies) and thus enable life to exist.

Viqrol
Healing and intuitive knowledge.

Kronibus illuminati confirmed

[Asmoth]

I think some people are of the mindset that everything and everyone is awful and will twist almost any scenario to reinforce their own bias.

I don't think there's a lot we can do to change the minds of people who think like that and while I can't speak for other staff, I personally don't care all that much to try. Easily the biggest 'negative' of staffing is reading the staggering amounts of mind-blowingly toxic vitriol some people direct at us.

I would rather spend my time adding neat things to the game, helping the players in my clans do fun stuff, animating for/helping newbies, or just playing the game than subject myself to reasoning with people who are so determined to lay on the soul-crushing hatred, often without all the facts and often in spite of the reality of a situation.

You should not be shocked that players get pissed when they are treated like ignorant pieces of shit.

I mean, I very seriously doubt that many people react negatively to staff just for the fun of it.

Do you really think players get pissed off without good reason?  I mean, do you really think some of the viqrol is unjustified?

Maybe people should take accountability for their bad attitudes, but unfortunately this does not fall solely on players. The shadowboard did not form just because of a bunch of bad apples... It happened because there was genuinely some clownish shit going on.

If you guys really think the burden of the problem rests solely on players, let me know so I can quit playing again.

Not trying to stir some shit here.  But honestly, as a past problem player, I have to admit that the admin has been substantially less DICKY this time around.

Nergal for one seems pretty reasonable in his responses and less "Don't like it get fuckt!" that some of the past producers have been...

I will however say that I honestly feel some of the helpers are getting a little big for their breeches in some respects.  Chopping up threads on a whim.  Putting their own views over the merit of discussion and lots of other things.

But if I had to choose, I'd rather sensible and reasonable staff and deal with the helper self-righteousness... So I guess lesser of two evils?

[Malken]

lol, "shadowboard"

[roobee]

Improve the help files. http://gdb.armageddon.org/index.php/topic,50232.0.html

[roobee]

Allow "consider" to be used on monsters, or add a general monsters help file detailing how tough they are (perhaps in table format). Monster strength I believe is much less varied than a PC's could be. Most people in the Zalanthan world would know how tough some monsters would be. Or perhaps, only give the details for common monsters for most and only allow certain guilds like hunters more obscure monster details. As a newbie, and still now in fact it's a pain figuring out which monsters I can kill.

[Synthesis]

Allow "consider" to be used on monsters, or add a general monsters help file detailing how tough they are (perhaps in table format). Monster strength I believe is much less varied than a PC's could be. Most people in the Zalanthan world would know how tough some monsters would be. Or perhaps, only give the details for common monsters for most and only allow certain guilds like hunters more obscure monster details. As a newbie, and still now in fact it's a pain figuring out which monsters I can kill.

A "consider" command would be utterly useless on Armageddon.

I've facerolled scrabs with a 0-day ranger.

I've had a scrab nearly kill my 60-day warrior.  (This wasn't some RPT scrab...it was random scrab #10873, spawned in the exact location where it always spawns.)

That's the difference stat rolls can make on critters.

Also, most of the dangerous critters will start fucking your shit up while you're trying to type 'consider.'  The ones that sit there while you're thinking about it...prooooobably are usually okay-ish, but exercise common sense.

[roobee]

Hmm. In that case then I think monster stats should be less varied.

[nauta]

Just to follow up on what I said in the Improving the Helpfiles Thread:

If the results of 'look beast' and 'help beast' contradict (or don't really give you a clear indication of) reality, then definitely that individual beast's mdesc or helpfile should be improved.

Anecdote: I lost one of my favorite characters to an erdlu.  I was wondering around, and saw this sdesc of a flightless bird.  I was like: Oh, a little bird, not a problem.  LOL.  (I haven't gone back to check, but what I should have done is: look erdlu; assess -v erdlu (to see its size); help erdlu.  And THEN not engaged.)

[Lizzie]

Hmm. In that case then I think monster stats should be less varied.

If you're looking for a guaranteed instakill or a guaranteed "this thing won't kill me" you're definitely playing the wrong game. On the other hand if you think a particular mob is especially overpowered for what you feel it was intended to be, you should bugrep it. Like, if you walk down the north road and see a tregil surrounded by a pile of corpses, and you try and kill it with your Byn-trained 5-day warrior and it fights back and reels you on the first shot - then yeah - bugrep that.

Varied stats mean it takes longer to get that "been there done that got the T-shirt ho hum isn't there anything more challenging that won't dent my shiny new bracers?" feeling.

[RogueGunslinger]

If varied stats meant the difference between being able to kill a 60-day warriors or dying to a fresh ranger(in my experience it's not even close to this wide of a gap) he would be absolutely right, they would be far too varied.

Varied stats mean it takes longer to get that "been there done that got the T-shirt ho hum isn't there anything more challenging that won't dent my shiny new bracers?" feeling.

Ehhh, not so much.

[Miradus]

Anecdote: I lost one of my favorite characters to an erdlu.  I was wondering around, and saw this sdesc of a flightless bird.  I was like: Oh, a little bird, not a problem.  LOL.  (I haven't gone back to check, but what I should have done is: look erdlu; assess -v erdlu (to see its size); help erdlu.  And THEN not engaged.)

In trying to learn the game, I have lost about one character to every new mob I encountered out in the wilderness. Mostly because the names aren't anything I'm familiar with.

look east ... an armored bahamet.

I don't know what that is, but let's go take a look. I bet I can survive long enough to look and ass -v it to get an understanding.

An armored bahamet does unspeakable damage to your groin.
You reel from the blow.

A glossy inix throws you off his back.

PANIC! You couldn't escape!!!
PANIC! You couldn't escape!!!
PANIC! You couldn't escape!!!

[nauta]

Hehe -- you may want to sit down at a bar or join a hunting clan and ask:

So which big beast will kill me hard out there?

This is more curiosity on my part: some sdescs have the name of the beast (helpful if you want to look it up) and some do not -- in fact sometimes the sdesc or pose or whatever is pretty hard to figure out from a distance.  It'd be neat to have a 'look sdesc east' command.

[Lizzie]

http://www.armageddon.org/help/view/Animal%20Life

Most of the creatures you are -most- likely to run into are listed here. If you're playing a character who plans on exploring, and you want them to last awhile, you could either:
1) join a clan
or
2) ask people ICly for the scoop on the local flora and fauna
or
3) read the help file
or
any combination of the above.

In general, in the world of Armageddon, it's not a good idea to intentionally get close to animals right out the gate. Best to keep a distance, watch and see if it starts chasing you (rather than the other way around or just standing there), and decide at that point whether or not to continue to explore. This is true in any scenario, whether in a game or in life. You want to move ahead, but you don't want to jump off a cliff unless you know there's water at the bottom.

[fourTwenty]

I think my first ever post on the gdb was talking about how I was brand new and my brand new PC got two shored by a Mek and asking if this was normal. Welcome to Armageddon indeed.