Player retention and you: brainstorming

[Nyr]

This is a thread for some brainstorming on player retention.

There are several things we can do to bring in new players, period, and the biggest one is voting (obligatory "get out the vote" msg!).  However, after they get here, we want to find ways to get more of them to stay.

What suggestions do you have for player retention?

[Jihelu]

I may be biased but hear me out.
Make things less system base/allow more 'change' after char gen.
I'll post more later after class.

[Desertman]

Just dropping in my idea regarding the possibility of a random character "Generator" for new players. It would basically write their sdesc, mdesc, and background for them after letting them pick "The Fun Stuff" so they could go ahead and get in the game and give it a try.

[Desertman]

Another one I have thought of recently.

You know how on the "Loading Screens" for some games it gives you tips and hints for how to better play the game?

Newbie accounts could possibly be setup with a code that sends them and only them "Hints" randomly about how to play the game.

One ever few minutes.

You could of course turn this off by typing "Hints Off". Of course, one of the hints you would get would be....

"Hint - To turn off these hints, just type "Hints Off"".

Examples:

"You should always bow to southern Templars."

"Hint - See "help emote" to improve your roleplaying!"

"Hint - Read Board in any room with a board to see the recent rumors and find out who's hiring!"

"Hint - Just type the first letter of the direction you want to walk to move in that direction!"

"Hint - You can sit at a table or bar with someone just by typing "Sit" with one of their keywoards. Sit With Purple."

"Hint - Type Score to see your stats! Type Skill to see your skills!"

"Hint - Use Talk instead of Say to talk to the people only at the table or bar you are sitting at!"




Things like that.

[Nyr]

Just dropping in my idea regarding the possibility of a random character "Generator" for new players. It would basically write their sdesc, mdesc, and background for them after letting them pick "The Fun Stuff" so they could go ahead and get in the game and give it a try.

Requiring players to write their descriptions is itself a litmus test for whether they can actually write in English. 

If we ever did anything like the above it would need to be regulated in some other fashion.  We truly cannot handle an increase of +500% in actual new PC logins.

[Desertman]

Just dropping in my idea regarding the possibility of a random character "Generator" for new players. It would basically write their sdesc, mdesc, and background for them after letting them pick "The Fun Stuff" so they could go ahead and get in the game and give it a try.

Requiring players to write their descriptions is itself a litmus test for whether they can actually write in English.  

If we ever did anything like the above it would need to be regulated in some other fashion.  We truly cannot handle an increase of +500% in actual new PC logins.

That's a good point I had not considered.

Maybe have them write their description but give them an option for a randomly generated background?

The description might be a "fun" part for some people. But for someone brand new to the game writing a background that actually fits the world seems like the part where they will most likely say, "Yeah, screw this crap. I don't have time to go to the website and read forty pages of docs just to play this MUD.".

[Refugee]

1.  Find ways to make clan recruits less likely to end up alone and bored, trapped by a schedule.  New players benefit from being in a clan when it works right; they have someone to show them the ropes and are somewhat shielded from the harsh realities of the struggle for survival in our game.

2.  Clans could have reciprocal agreements, where their members could train or hunt or whatever with each other, in times of lean numbers.  This really helped me in the times it's been available.  It'd have to be worked out in a way to make sense, of course, but idling in a clan hall doesn't compete well with other games that you could be playing instead, and when you're new, you might not know what else to do on your own.  Anyway, anything we can do to make clans better for new players would be great.

3.  Our GDB treatment of each other should always be respectful, even during times of heated disagreement.  We are a small and dwindling group of enthusiasts and we should value each other even if our PCs don't.  We are all at least fairly able to express ourselves, given the platform of the game we've chosen, and most of us are adults.  We should be able to debate anything without insulting or abusing each other.  When you see people sniping at each other on the boards, many might not choose to try to be part of that community.  And we -need- each other, because there's not too many people who 'get' us.

4.  Is there still a limit on the size of the Byn?  I'd suggest removing that, if not the limits on all clans, especially newbie-friendly ones.  If you've got a popular leader who draws in players because they're having fun, that's a good thing.

[Jihelu]

Time to explain more.
Lets say you are new to the game and playing Bob.
Bob joins X organization and finds himself needing to use/wants to use a sword or something other than a small dagger and the like.
Bob thought being a non combat class would be fun at the time.
Bob is in a situation he can't avoid due to X and wants to learn how to use a sword to make his life realistically easier.
Bob asks admin chat and receives " As for actually getting the skill - no, that isn't something that can happen."
Bob is confused, why can't Bob just learn how to use a sword? Rip Bob.
Not really in all terms but thats frustrating.

In other ways I think the game is already welcoming to new people, maybe a bit vague but you can figure it out.
I don't necessarily like the idea behind "Die a few times and figure it out" though, because then you just meta information over characters.

[LauraMars]

I think that behind the scenes, the game should have a story that's going on.  Maybe the players only catch glimpses of it from time to time, if they even manage to do that much.  But it should be there, quietly clicking away and running the show, informing staff decisions, and giving Storytellers and semi-informed pcs a place to hang their plots and draw others in to the net.  Maybe it's just staff being aware of what Tektolnes and his Black Robes are plotting in Allanak this month.  Maybe it's something else.  Whatever it is, it should exist, whether it becomes a great big HRPT or not.

Television shows, comic books, and video games usually have a lot of side moments, monster of the week episodes, or fetch quests that explore the lore of the world, expand on individual characters, offer a rip-roaring good fun time, and provide small, encapsulated stories of their own - but in the end, these all spiral gradually towards the "main plotline."   Armageddon has an amazing universe with a lot of lore and a lot of elbow room for individual stories to be told - but, just lately, it doesn't feel as though there's any major story arcs going on.  And I think major story arcs really draw in players like nothing else.

Yeah, I know how much work that is for staff.  I know it real damn well.  But face it - when there are a lot of plots and "big style" rpts happening, you get more people logging in, and more people staying to enjoy the afterglow and roll up a new character. That's facts.

[Jihelu]

Along with the whole "no story thing going on" even when things do go on they just end.
I want there to always be something going on. Someone make Tektolnas actually scheme some shit.

[In Dreams]

Time to explain more.
Lets say you are new to the game and playing Bob.
Bob joins X organization and finds himself needing to use/wants to use a sword or something other than a small dagger and the like.
Bob thought being a non combat class would be fun at the time.
Bob is in a situation he can't avoid due to X and wants to learn how to use a sword to make his life realistically easier.
Bob asks admin chat and receives " As for actually getting the skill - no, that isn't something that can happen."
Bob is confused, why can't Bob just learn how to use a sword? Rip Bob.
Not really in all terms but thats frustrating.

In other ways I think the game is already welcoming to new people, maybe a bit vague but you can figure it out.
I don't necessarily like the idea behind "Die a few times and figure it out" though, because then you just meta information over characters.

This is honestly one of my biggest turnoffs to Arm. Why can't Bob learn how to use a sword? He's a person with a brain and he can practice using a sword and get better at it, can't he?

It feels like an ancient limitation of code that needs to be done away with.

[Jihelu]

Time to explain more.
Lets say you are new to the game and playing Bob.
Bob joins X organization and finds himself needing to use/wants to use a sword or something other than a small dagger and the like.
Bob thought being a non combat class would be fun at the time.
Bob is in a situation he can't avoid due to X and wants to learn how to use a sword to make his life realistically easier.
Bob asks admin chat and receives " As for actually getting the skill - no, that isn't something that can happen."
Bob is confused, why can't Bob just learn how to use a sword? Rip Bob.
Not really in all terms but thats frustrating.

In other ways I think the game is already welcoming to new people, maybe a bit vague but you can figure it out.
I don't necessarily like the idea behind "Die a few times and figure it out" though, because then you just meta information over characters.

This is honestly one of my biggest turnoffs to Arm. Why can't Bob learn how to use a sword? He's a person with a brain and he can practice using a sword and get better at it, can't he?

It feels like an ancient limitation of code that needs to be done away with.

Not even the coded aspect makes me mad.
Just allow staff to let people learn some things.
Worse case scenario they die in a week.
Best case they become the best swordsmen.
I don't think people should be able to learn everything. It should be hard coded to prevent that. But staff and roleplay should be the medium between "What you can and can't do" and right now it seems to be "What you can't" do.

It makes me even feel worse when I read cool stories of like "staff let me make this super cool magick thing campaign and all this other shit" and I'm over here like "So when can I learn sword"

[Lizzie]

Just dropping in my idea regarding the possibility of a random character "Generator" for new players. It would basically write their sdesc, mdesc, and background for them after letting them pick "The Fun Stuff" so they could go ahead and get in the game and give it a try.

There already is one of those online, it's just not part of the "official" arm docs. But it was written especially for Armageddon by one of the players. Someone just needs to make it part of the official docs and link it to the main website.

[Desertman]

Just dropping in my idea regarding the possibility of a random character "Generator" for new players. It would basically write their sdesc, mdesc, and background for them after letting them pick "The Fun Stuff" so they could go ahead and get in the game and give it a try.

There already is one of those online, it's just not part of the "official" arm docs. But it was written especially for Armageddon by one of the players. Someone just needs to make it part of the official docs and link it to the main website.

Fair enough.

I think having it actually in the client would be more effective in terms of accomplishing the end goal however.

[Delirium]

I can see the reasons for limiting new skills on a character build, but a good compromise could be something like:

"You may learn ONE extra skill after character generation with the proper amount of roleplaying IG (e.g. who are you learning it from? How are you learning it? How often are you practicing? Show this in logs and send in a write-up to staff). This extra skill does not include sorcery or magic. Any additional new skills will require trading it for one existing skill. You may not learn more than one new skill every four RL months." Staff would have to decide where these skills are capped at, and for which guilds.

For example, many years ago I had an assassin PC who ended up constantly hanging out with some hunters and one of them taught her how to skin. So I got novice skin, after proving I'd roleplayed the lessons out. It was capped pretty low, but at least I could use it. Nowadays, I don't think that would be an option at all. But it's a totally reasonable request.

I have more thoughts on storytelling I'll have to get into later, Laura covered it pretty well.

[Jihelu]

I just gotta wait for when I teach my self sorcerery and unarmed combat...such is life.

[whitt]

New player guides (documents) That tell new players how the code works with regard to new character creation.  Yes it's part of the litmus test to glean that information from the guild description, but the test is just as frequently can you google search to find another (toxic) site that has this information?  Just telling them what skills each guild/sub-guild grants and where they cap doesn't have anything to do with lore or finding out IC - With the exception, maybe, of magickers - but we're talking about new player retention, so keep magickers and Templar skill sets off the table.  Even extended sub-guilds.  Just help people make characters that aren't gimped because a Warrior/Guard sounds like a cool concept, but that new player is pretty much throwing their sub-guild choice away.

Also start primary guild skills at the bottom of Apprentice instead of Novice.  Branched skills can grind away, but few new players come into game understanding how much they are going to suck at the skills they think (and probably background app'd) their character as having made a living at.  Not sucking out the gate makes for a better new player experience.  You're still not going to be good.  Not sucking would be pretty hot for characters that die and need to start over too.

[nauta]

Here are some thoughts about stories.  First, thanks to staff for all the work they put in.  Some of this will be critical, but with an aim towards the positive, so, you know, constructive feedback, from a limited perspective here.  I'm also light on suggestions, but hopefully it'll get some brainstorming happening, (or not).

1. Stories/Storytelling. I too have noticed that the 'big plots' seem to suffer from problems (think back to the recent one in Allanak):

a) They tend to be hard to observe/get involved in, until its too late, and then it feels like a bit of a light show.

b) They tend to be hard to understand as a commoner PC, before, during, and after the event.

c) They tend to just end (maybe a factor of (a) and (b)).

Suggestions:

a) A lot of plots trickle down from leadership and sometimes they don't reach the bottom tiers, and, in any case, they wouldn't reach independents and the like, so perhaps try to do a lateral-oriented approach to seeding the plots, e.g., drop some hint bombs in the Gaj, post rumours, look into what player plots are going on and slip in some hints in your reaction to those, etc.

b) Post rumours.  Please please please post rumours.  The onus should be on staff here -- I've seen several big events from a very limited perspective and so wasn't in any place to post a rumour or understand the event, and never saw a rumour.  The rumour should help us commoners who might have missed the big event (a riot for instance) understand what went on, so we can incorporate that plot into our roleplay, thus generating more plots around it.  In fact, a lot of plot movement can just be rumours.  This addresses the before and after.  (I know sometimes rumours get posted, but I'm saying: do it way more often.)  (I'll stop, but this is one of my peeves: when some giant ass beast just decimated the Gaj, and the NPCs are the same, and the PCs in there just logged in, and so are like: huh, what?)

Echoes As for the 'during the event', I've had several times where it's been kind of spammy and I miss the world echoes - perhaps consider putting those in bold so we catch them, and having more of them, so we can better understand what's going on.  Once we get the idea of what staff thinks is going on (oh, there are giant bats over the city, ok!), then we can incorporate that in our emotes as part of the virtual world too.

Arrange In combination with the rumours, try to arrange things (with 'arrange') so we know, for instance, that there's a big blood stain on the floor there.

Timing.  The code in Armageddon is fast and brutal, but when a cool story is going on, I'd like to have some time to let it soak in.  But often things happen so fast, I'm just like: What the fuck happened there (scroll up up up up)?  I know you can't slow down mobs (wait, can you?) but it might be nice to slow things down a bit more than I've at least noticed.

c) A lot of what Laura says rings true about keeping 'the big one' moving.

I have other thoughts on retention and stories, but that went on for a bit.  Like I said, I'm sure a lot of this happens, or is obvious, but I hope those observations were helpful.

[Desertman]

Maybe give Helpers an in-game "Helper Channel" they can access where the ONLY thing they can see is that there are "New Players".

They can't even see the sdesc. Literally all they would see is...

Helper Who

"There are 4 new players in the world." (New players would be players who are on accounts that have existed for less than a RL month?)

Help List

(Here we would randomly generate them a "Name" to refer to as a keyword for ease of use.)

Bob
Darrel
Cindy
Patrick

helpsend Bob Hey there I see you are new to the game. I'm a game helper. If you have any questions you can send them to me now by typing "HelpWish Jack" and then your message.

Something like that. The specifics don't even matter.

The core here is a channel for helpers to actually send new players in game messages and get responses from them in order to help them with newbie questions.

[Malken]

"An RPT a day keeps the Jcarters away."

[wizturbo]

I think that behind the scenes, the game should have a story that's going on.  Maybe the players only catch glimpses of it from time to time, if they even manage to do that much.  But it should be there, quietly clicking away and running the show, informing staff decisions, and giving Storytellers and semi-informed pcs a place to hang their plots and draw others in to the net.  Maybe it's just staff being aware of what Tektolnes and his Black Robes are plotting in Allanak this month.  Maybe it's something else.  Whatever it is, it should exist, whether it becomes a great big HRPT or not.

Television shows, comic books, and video games usually have a lot of side moments, monster of the week episodes, or fetch quests that explore the lore of the world, expand on individual characters, offer a rip-roaring good fun time, and provide small, encapsulated stories of their own - but in the end, these all spiral gradually towards the "main plotline."   Armageddon has an amazing universe with a lot of lore and a lot of elbow room for individual stories to be told - but, just lately, it doesn't feel as though there's any major story arcs going on.  And I think major story arcs really draw in players like nothing else.

Yeah, I know how much work that is for staff.  I know it real damn well.  But face it - when there are a lot of plots and "big style" rpts happening, you get more people logging in, and more people staying to enjoy the afterglow and roll up a new character. That's facts.

+1  

Couldn't say it better.  The best way to keep people playing, is to make the world feel like it's alive and cool shit can happen at any moment.  You want to login after a weekend away and hear about all this cool stuff that happened, and go "damn, wish I had time to play this last weekend!  I'm going to set aside saturday afternoon for Arm next weekend!".

For those of you who missed it, last night was one of those moments.  Some awesome Allanaki blood and sand moments.

[Malken]

I think that behind the scenes, the game should have a story that's going on.  Maybe the players only catch glimpses of it from time to time, if they even manage to do that much.  But it should be there, quietly clicking away and running the show, informing staff decisions, and giving Storytellers and semi-informed pcs a place to hang their plots and draw others in to the net.  Maybe it's just staff being aware of what Tektolnes and his Black Robes are plotting in Allanak this month.  Maybe it's something else.  Whatever it is, it should exist, whether it becomes a great big HRPT or not.

Television shows, comic books, and video games usually have a lot of side moments, monster of the week episodes, or fetch quests that explore the lore of the world, expand on individual characters, offer a rip-roaring good fun time, and provide small, encapsulated stories of their own - but in the end, these all spiral gradually towards the "main plotline."   Armageddon has an amazing universe with a lot of lore and a lot of elbow room for individual stories to be told - but, just lately, it doesn't feel as though there's any major story arcs going on.  And I think major story arcs really draw in players like nothing else.

Yeah, I know how much work that is for staff.  I know it real damn well.  But face it - when there are a lot of plots and "big style" rpts happening, you get more people logging in, and more people staying to enjoy the afterglow and roll up a new character. That's facts.

I was actually gonna say something like that, but yeah, you say it better.

I've played this game for a billion years (give or take) and it's always been Muk Utep vs Tektolnes vs the Mysterious Sandlord That Nobody Has Ever Seen.

New major characters would be -great-.

If you don't have the energy/drive/time to make "big things" happen anymore then pass the flag on to someone else who wants to make these things happen. It would be unfair to the players if you would just sit on your laurels and be satisfied with the status quo while the game loses its appeal for many because nothing ever seems to happen.

(I'm not targeting anyone when I say "you", nor do I know about any of the Staff, so please don't feel targeted - Just saying it in general.)

[Erythil]

I'll vote for a more dynamic and active story along with others.  It doesn't always need to be in the same area of the world, but I think part of the downturn at the moment is due to the lack of major events.  People's interest was piqued by the 'election' and Tuluk closure plots because it felt like things were going on in the world.  Even if these are pre-canned and players can't affect them much, it creates a sense of vibrancy that gives people stuff to talk about.

Also, I think it should be easier to get involved in clans, especially as a non-combat character.  Many other RP muds now have options to join the 'basic' clans right out of chargen, which hooks you up with other characters easily and gives you some objectives.

Maybe an in-game newbie/guide channel would be of assistance as well.  Many people probably don't realize there's a web tool you can log into, or aren't willing to through the extra effort.

[Lizzie]

I think that behind the scenes, the game should have a story that's going on.  Maybe the players only catch glimpses of it from time to time, if they even manage to do that much.  But it should be there, quietly clicking away and running the show, informing staff decisions, and giving Storytellers and semi-informed pcs a place to hang their plots and draw others in to the net.  Maybe it's just staff being aware of what Tektolnes and his Black Robes are plotting in Allanak this month.  Maybe it's something else.  Whatever it is, it should exist, whether it becomes a great big HRPT or not.

Television shows, comic books, and video games usually have a lot of side moments, monster of the week episodes, or fetch quests that explore the lore of the world, expand on individual characters, offer a rip-roaring good fun time, and provide small, encapsulated stories of their own - but in the end, these all spiral gradually towards the "main plotline."   Armageddon has an amazing universe with a lot of lore and a lot of elbow room for individual stories to be told - but, just lately, it doesn't feel as though there's any major story arcs going on.  And I think major story arcs really draw in players like nothing else.

Yeah, I know how much work that is for staff.  I know it real damn well.  But face it - when there are a lot of plots and "big style" rpts happening, you get more people logging in, and more people staying to enjoy the afterglow and roll up a new character. That's facts.

I was actually gonna say something like that, but yeah, you say it better.

I've played this game for a billion years (give or take) and it's always been Muk Utep vs Tektolnes vs the Mysterious Sandlord That Nobody Has Ever Seen.

New major characters would be -great-.

Or - introduce us to a -direct- minion of the Sandlord. Special app, animated NPC, recruited in-game, whatever. Just anyone who is directly involved with the Sandlord, who can trickle down plotlines with enough "street cred" to make their rep stick and count for something.

[Ath]

What do you mean new major characters?

I see a lot of you want to see plot.  Now when you guys talk these large plots, are we talking plots that you guys see, but are unable to interact with, but may affect the game world you play in?  Say for example, a battle between Red Storm and Some Raiders where fights will be heard about on the rumor boards, or through animations, but you really have no capacity to change the outcome.  You may see a few raiders outside Red Storm, you can kill them, but this doesn't mean you beat them back.

Or are you guys looking for more interactive large plots?  Something where player action does make a difference.  Say for example the raider leader is camped somewhere and if the players kill him, Red Storm may owe a debt to the players.

The big difference here is how much time is invested.  Big plots that include major player interaction require a lot of work, planned RPTs, planning, etc.  That which doesn't require much interaction and really only affects the game world and the players are the viewers and somewhat affected, these are more easy to manage on a staff level.

These are just some talking points, so I'm interested in hearing what you guys have to say.