Magickers and Their Role and Opportunities

[Jihelu]

If the AoD actually got some IC "Senate ruling yadadadada" they could probably get a fancy "Cast magic in here" room with a templar in there.
Always watching.
Always frowning.
This is the job you don't want kids.

[Majikal]

Much of the stuff being suggested here is already happening. If you play a gemmed and don't get involved with clans/fun/roles/oppurtunities is by design of your pc or lack of creativity in the player.

[wizturbo]

Much of the stuff being suggested here is already happening. If you play a gemmed and don't get involved with clans/fun/roles/oppurtunities is by design of your pc or lack of creativity in the player.

To some degree I agree with you that opportunities exist, but I don't view lack of creativity as the root cause for why most Gemmed don't get to seize thsoe opportunities.  Ultimately,  sheer usefulness, or consistent, high levels of playtime can overcome just about any constraint in Armageddon.  You could play a one-legged, one-armed elven gemmed and find yourself in the thick of things if you play enough and are charismatic.  The problem is the amount of effort required to get involved is so much higher for a Gemmed than a mundane PC.  

A mundane can be 15 minutes out of char gen and find themselves in the Byn, and going out on contracts/adventures the very same day.  That's because the Byn is cool like that.  A Gemmed might take months of RL time before they're in a position where they can get access to even a fraction of that interaction.  And that's why I feel there needs to be at least one more clan Gemmed can participate in.  At least 71% of the voters on this poll feel the same way. (http://gdb.armageddon.org/index.php/topic,50042.0.html)

[Armaddict]

Much of the stuff being suggested here is already happening. If you play a gemmed and don't get involved with clans/fun/roles/oppurtunities is by design of your pc or lack of creativity in the player.

To some degree I agree with you that opportunities exist, but I don't view lack of creativity as the root cause for why most Gemmed don't get to seize thsoe opportunities.  Ultimately,  sheer usefulness, or consistent, high levels of playtime can overcome just about any constraint in Armageddon.  You could play a one-legged, one-armed elven gemmed and find yourself in the thick of things if you play enough and are charismatic.  The problem is the amount of effort required to get involved is so much higher for a Gemmed than a mundane PC.  

A mundane can be 15 minutes out of char gen and find themselves in the Byn, and going out on contracts/adventures the very same day.  That's because the Byn is cool like that.  A Gemmed might take months of RL time before they're in a position where they can get access to even a fraction of that interaction.  And that's why I feel there needs to be at least one more clan Gemmed can participate in.  At least 71% of the voters on this poll feel the same way. (http://gdb.armageddon.org/index.php/topic,50042.0.html)

You're making a different argument here.  Now it's not about involvement, but about being able to immediately join a clan and slide into place with ease with mages directly out of chargen?

[Agent_137]

You're making a different argument here.  Now it's not about involvement, but about being able to immediately join a clan and slide into place with ease with mages directly out of chargen?

No one asked for gemmers to be able to immediately join a clan out of char gen.

This was all prompted by the big "YES" response to "should more roles be available to the gemmed."

Reducing effort to get involved clearly stems from that. Increasing the number of clans that employ gemmed from 1 to 2 also clearly stems from that.

Obviously it shouldn't be as easy a human fighter, but nor should it be as hard as it is.

[wizturbo]

What Agent said.  +1

I don't think Gemmed should be able to have as many out of char gen opportunities as a mundane, but they should at least have some roles they can aspire towards besides a single clan which is already quite torn between mundane and magickal concerns.  (House Oash isn't ALL about magick...it's just one of the things they dabble in).

[Armaddict]

What Agent said.  +1

I don't think Gemmed should be able to have as many out of char gen opportunities as a mundane, but they should at least have some roles they can aspire towards besides a single clan which is already quite torn between mundane and magickal concerns.  (House Oash isn't ALL about magick...it's just one of the things they dabble in).

So.  AGAIN.  You are not asking for 'more roles'.  That is a phrase you keep using that is essentially either a misguided one, or a disguise.  You keep saying it, but in reference and explanation, you are, still, asking for more acceptance of the -gemmed- in more places.  Every time it is noted that -mages- have plenty of roles they can fulfill, there is agreement that through remaining ungemmed, one could in actuality do a great deal more things.  But then it reverts back to the same one...take the -existing- game world, and make it more gemmed friendly.  You are asking for more magick in everyone else's plots, to be their magickal assistance, and to have more involvement in the same things as everyone else, and to stop being separated by that gem (which is the very cost of wearing it, as -always-)

(Edited here to differentiate between mages and gemmed.  Sometimes they are not the same thing, as we have gone over.)

I, despite being one of the people who continues to argue at you, was in that poll, agreeing that there could be more roles, specifically for the ungemmed, because everyone who plays a mage seems to demand that they get both the safety of being gemmed and the lack of ostracism that the gemmed receive.  And therein lies the qualm I have with the same points that keep being said:  You are not asking for more roles.  You are asking for a magick-friendly world.  And so, when I say...

You're making a different argument here.  Now it's not about involvement, but about being able to immediately join a clan and slide into place with ease with mages directly out of chargen?

...in direct response to...

A mundane can be 15 minutes out of char gen and find themselves in the Byn, and going out on contracts/adventures the very same day.  That's because the Byn is cool like that.  A Gemmed might take months of RL time before they're in a position where they can get access to even a fraction of that interaction.  And that's why I feel there needs to be at least one more clan Gemmed can participate in.

That is, indeed, a change in argument to say the same thing, i.e. using a new line of reasoning to try and get the same thing that was already being discussed.

And so when someone else chimes in to say

This was all prompted by the big "YES" response to "should more roles be available to the gemmed."

...then I am obligated to point out that this is untrue,  since that poll was clearly made after this thread and not before it, in response to the adversity being faced when this topic yet again faced the same valid arguments it always has.  When you can propose something that does -not- involve requiring the history of the game and decades-old tradition of magick's place within the game, or when you can actually do the work IC to change it instead instead of calling out on the GDB for everyone to be more nice and democratically change it so that mages can be more involved in everything (despite there being a clear line of involvement that players of mundanes do -not- want...also discussed in the thread), then I will probably agree with you.  I tried to help with such ideas with the promotion of a group of ungemmed.  Instead that part of your poll is...not even paid attention to.

So to reiterate...the problem I have is not you saying 'I'd like for mages to have more options or more to do', it is the -demand- that such options be further and more deeply integrated into the rest of the game where it doesn't fit, and hasn't fitted...again, unless you point to the period of time where magick was so out of control there was an actual backlash against the karma system due to the mundane being unnecessary.

Edited:  And because this is agro because we have to keep going over these things over and over every year...just a reminder that there were very good suggestions throughout the thread of how mages can be more involved as is, and how they -are- more involved than things appear as is.  If you're standing around just being a mage, and expecting people to come to you, you're doing it wrong.  But I, in the last three or four years, have used more mages for my own ends than I ever have before.  From what responses I've seen, I think that's across the board, and so the constant demand for desegregation of mages from the mundanes is...meh.  I like how you make it sound like the rest of us are just happily gallivanting around up to our elbows in shit to do that we didn't even have to come up with, or that staff are just throwing their clans -tons- of shit to do that a gemmed is just SOL on.  Storylines are small, almost all of mine have been completely self-driven and reactionary, and I don't see why wearing a gem is so different from everyone else's 'I need to make my own shit to do and make my goals.'

[wizturbo]

So.  AGAIN.  You are not asking for 'more roles'.

I want Gemmed to have more clanned roles available to them.  Yes.  I don't care if they are existing clans or new clans.  

None clanned roles might help things too, but I think clans have a lot to offer in Armageddon, like docs, rankings, leaders, message boards, etc.

[Agent_137]

Looks like the poll was actually posted about 30 minutes after thread start. Just enough time for Armaddict and wizturbo to start arguing. I assumed the poll was first because I saw it first.

At the end of the day, a lot of people said they want to see more roles. Stuff was suggested that would help but also wouldn't require any changes to IC culture. That's a win in my book.

Armaddict, are you saying we shouldn't have this discussion at all? This is a discussion board. I've see the same topics come up again and again over the years. That's OK. It's going to be OK.

[Armaddict]

Armaddict, are you saying we shouldn't have this discussion at all? This is a discussion board. I've see the same topics come up again and again over the years. That's OK. It's going to be OK.

I tend to like discussion.  Not when it's the same thing being said over and over.  Not when it's a 'Well, that still received the same argument, let's try -this- approach instead' to still assert the same thing.

And I know it's going to be OK.  But it was apparent that the tender-hearted 'You can get the effects you're looking for as is, without having to change anything about the world' was not making an impact, it was only encouraging more 'But I don't want it that way.'

On a side note:  I was amused recently when looking at the archived GDB because there was a post about the involvement of mages in more things.  The replies/reasons why it can't change are the same ones.  It's...the same discussion.  And that, good sir, is frustrating.

[Agent_137]

True but at the same time, lots of new people are on the board. Hell as long as I've been here I actually haven't had this discussion (that i recall).

I feel like you're saying that gemmed have it appropriately hard and if the players would just use a little more elbow grease they'd be fine. That any changes would need to be IC or would go against docs and what's been done ICly already.

What about the suggestion for a shared board w/ gemmers and templars? ICly templars can already grab gemmed for whatever they want. But with a shared board templars could post RPTs like "be in your temples X date and Y time if you want to be forced into service as cannon fodder. Survivors will be rewarded with false promises of future favors."

Immediate increase in interaction and conflict. What's not to like?

[Old Kank]

Something that occurred to me while reading this thread was that a lack of magick-based clans, and magick-specific clan roles is probably robbing new players of mage role-models.

I'm generally against magick super-groups like the CAM, but I wonder if maybe it should be opened up as an exclusive role for that purpose.  Limit it to 1-3 players, place them informally under the templarate, and establish some very clear OOC guidelines on what's expected.  That way, maybe we can bring some OOC leadership/guidance in for the unclanned, but avoid the silk-wearing commoner elites, and magick utopia-style goals.

[Armaddict]

Something that occurred to me while reading this thread was that a lack of magick-based clans, and magick-specific clan roles is probably robbing new players of mage role-models.

I'm generally against magick super-groups like the CAM, but I wonder if maybe it should be opened up as an exclusive role for that purpose.  Limit it to 1-3 players, place them informally under the templarate, and establish some very clear OOC guidelines on what's expected.  That way, maybe we can bring some OOC leadership/guidance in for the unclanned, but avoid the silk-wearing commoner elites, and magick utopia-style goals.

What do you mean, exactly?

I've seen...marvelous mages in the past couple years.  Excellent, very good mages, ones that I would consider very worthy of 'role-model' status for that role.  Are you saying something else?

[LauraMars]

Perhaps what OK means is that while there may be well played mages, they are rarely in positions of authority or visibility.  Often, it is the most visible example of a role new players think of when they're defining 'What it means to be X' in their minds.  The influence of a well played mage is, generally speaking, not large - and therefore their influence on player perception may be limited in scope as well.

[Eyeball]

Armaddict, are you saying we shouldn't have this discussion at all? This is a discussion board. I've see the same topics come up again and again over the years. That's OK. It's going to be OK.

I tend to like discussion.  Not when it's the same thing being said over and over.  Not when it's a 'Well, that still received the same argument, let's try -this- approach instead' to still assert the same thing.

And I know it's going to be OK.  But it was apparent that the tender-hearted 'You can get the effects you're looking for as is, without having to change anything about the world' was not making an impact, it was only encouraging more 'But I don't want it that way.'

On a side note:  I was amused recently when looking at the archived GDB because there was a post about the involvement of mages in more things.  The replies/reasons why it can't change are the same ones.  It's...the same discussion.  And that, good sir, is frustrating.

From what I've seen, you're saying the same thing again and again. You don't want anything to change for the gemmed. You make some vague allusion to how gemmed who know what they're doing are super busy so it's the fault of any gemmed player when they're not, but without providing any supporting evidence. You dismiss the results of the poll because you don't like them. Does that pretty much sum it up?

[Old Kank]

What do you mean, exactly?

Perhaps what OK means is that while there may be well played mages, they are rarely in positions of authority or visibility.  Often, it is the most visible example of a role new players think of when they're defining 'What it means to be X' in their minds.  The influence of a well played mage is, generally speaking, not large - and therefore their influence on player perception may be limited in scope as well.

Pretty much what LauraMars said, with my emphasis added.  To illustrate, if you were to list those influential characters that opened your eyes to what this game was all about, how many would be mages?  I'd wager you would see a lot of templars and Byn sergeants, with a handful of nobles and merchants, maybe a sorcerer, and almost no elementalists.

To expand on it a bit further: 
I have seen many, many players fall into the same cycle (myself included): 1. Start a new mage.  2. Get a gem.  3. Spend your days practicing magick and your evenings getting the evil eye at the Gaj.  4. Discover there are no other mages of your element actively playing.  5. Get bored with the lack of interaction, direction, or challenge.  6.  Stop playing or store.  I've seen the same thing happen with non-gemmed mages, too, though there's a bit of variety based on their subguild and public face.  Generally speaking, it seems that people don't know what to do with mages.

There's a refrain in this thread that goes something like, "There's plenty of opportunities for mages, you just have to be creative!"  That's true, I imagine.  Inventive players will find a way to avoid or break out of that cycle.  But I also think it's an anti-magic cop-out, because you don't have to be creative to find opportunities with a mundane character.  Search the GDB for ways to get involved, and the main idea you'll see is, "Join a clan!"  Staff recruit players for leadership roles based in part on their ability to involve others and make interesting things happen while sticking to the game or clan's themes, so a big part of the game has a sort of "trickle-down" creativity embeded in it, but mages are largely excluded from that avenue.

So, sure, be creative.  But a player that's new to mages has nothing to go off of, and we see people fall into the same traps.  By minimizing mage involvement in clans and eliminating(?) magick-based leadership roles, players playing mages lose access to those characters that they could potentially learn and benefit from.  Just basic questions like what's reasonable, and what's not?  You wield power over life and death, and yet half-breeds look down on you - how does your character cope with that?  Is there a social hierarchy to mages?  My dwarven Vivaduan has a focus of turning the Sea of Silt to water - how would I even go about that?  My Krathi joined Oash, and my only duties for the past two years have been to "continue my studies" - why did I join House Oash?  There's a robust life to magick on Zalanthas, and we mostly represent it with six or seven skill trees.  How do you interpret that?  Is it possible to push a magick plot that doesn't break or consume the game?

All I'm suggesting is that we take two or three excellent, very good mages, and put them in a position of OOC (or IC) authority, and make examples of them, so that maybe we can learn from one another.

[Armaddict]

From what I've seen, you're saying the same thing again and again. You don't want anything to change for the gemmed. You make some vague allusion to how gemmed who know what they're doing are super busy so it's the fault of any gemmed player when they're not, but without providing any supporting evidence. You dismiss the results of the poll because you don't like them. Does that pretty much sum it up?

Several things, really.  Several things, over and over...that have been said over and over again for a long time, and I even talked about it in my last post, about being frustrated with having to bring up the same thing in response, because the same thing is being asked for again but with different wording.  I mean...point to where those things just don't hold up, and we can move past them, but as long as they keep getting ignored, I keep bringing them up...because the topic can't move on past them.  That's...kind of the big reason I argue it in the first place.  If you didn't notice, I've stated that numerous times.  We'll go over the ones you just pointed out now, because I do indeed keep saying them!

-I don't want any change to the gemmed.  Not really true, but as stated, I don't want a bunch of mundane clans suddenly hiring them up due to a change of heart out of nowhere, either.  Original assertions in the thread said 'there was a time', and my original arguments included requests for information on these times, because I was around and did not notice what they were talking to.  I acceded the point of time that there was the Council of Allanaki Mages that had far more involvement in everything, but also pointed out that to a large portion of the playerbase at the time, such was a detriment.  I don't think we need to go back to that time period, or try to replicate it.  The contention here is that I think the demand for being mixed in again, particularly in a forced way, will be a step back towards magick-land where the mundane gets phased back in prevalence, which is a shame in a typically low-magic setting, and would rather try to maintain that same setting while still expanding opportunities as desired.

-I didn't say anything about any gemmed who 'knows what they're doing' doing better, I said there are plenty of opportunities for their role, fitting in with the game world rather than demanding change out of it to play a -new- role that is more widely accepted.  If you want to translate as 'knows what they're doing', that's fine, but I it put forward in a manner far closer to 'playing in the outlined role' (from which there are exceptions, but this is not asking for more exceptions, it's asking for an across-the-board-change).  I also stressed that the gemmed mage and the hidden mage are different roles with different options involved for each.  The contention here is -I- don't think that ostracizing of the gemmed within the city is out of place.  I think that's the exact scenario that is described in not only documentation, but in the actual history of the game.  I also think that ungemmed provide an outlet for those who don't want that life, and it will be more exciting, but this is being rejected and brushed aside without explanation (so I keep bringing it up).  As is, the only reason I can guess for it is because it doesn't give what's wanted:  The safety of the gem, mixed with the freedom of mixing with everyone else on a culturally accepted level.  That is, indeed, against the role in my head, and trying to roundabout it.

-Providing evidence is an interesting idea.  Do you...want me to list off mages from the past that were able to come up with things on their own?  I think that's more of a frustrated addendum to your previous question, rather than a real one, because there are even recent gemmed within the city who seem to do pretty alright with getting things done, both for themselves and for others.  Like I said above, I've been very impressed with recent mages.  I gave kudos for one, for a spectacular manifestation.  I -should- give more, for the ones who made their own little community, complete with their own politics and intrigue -and- discreet services to the mundanes.  

-I dismiss the results of the poll because democracy didn't make the game.  You could all decide that you'd like to see at least a -bit- more metal in the game, and it would not make a difference.  Polls on the board show some information, but not perfected information.  For demonstration...that is where I brought up the conclave, because that seems like an option that fulfills the best of both worlds to me in giving a clan, with its plots, that is also somewhat hidden from the populace because of what they are and the freedom to do their thing.  Does it put them into the Gaj at prime hours?  Not as a group of mages.  But maybe as ungemmed people.  In the end, more players saying 'I want this' to me means very little, while maintaining the in-game atmosphere and keeping it balanced so that I can continue to enjoy with future characters so long as I want to play this game means a good deal more.  I'm sorry you interpret it as 'merely hating mages', but it's not.  It's loving the equilibrium of a low-magic setting and resisting the demand for someone else to say 'I'm bored but I want this role to change and invade on your fun with my fun'.  I'd love to contribute to your fun, but not if you shove it in my face as a pure lack of consideration for the lovers of low-magick settings as well.

-I don't know, does that sum it up?  Those are a few of the same things I have to say over and over, from your post, and now I've said them again!  I haven't seen any reason they're actually wrong, yet, but they do stand in direct opposition to the original idea and poll of 'Should we change things?'

All I'm suggesting is that we take two or three excellent, very good mages, and put them in a position of OOC (or IC) authority, and make examples of them, so that maybe we can learn from one another.

This is a better approach, I think, though it doesn't necessarily need to be authority so much as...visibility?  Maybe even some sort of menial task for each temple that's coded in, that doesn't put everyone right in the thick of it, but makes that chance inside the city of someone walking past and seeing, and instant roleplay? (i.e. Not a clan member, but a vivaduan responsibility to fill this fountain and this fountain, from this spot on the road and that spot on the road, or wind mages on the wall keeping sandstorms at bay [Since Taijan misses the old days of city sandstorms]). Mages would congregate at those little duties, and the mundane wouldn't be there -normally-, but they might get exposed to it.

I mean...that sort of thing doesn't get them into mundane plots or mix people in for more social interaction, like I think wizturbo is going for, but it would alleviate that new-mage problem, hopefully?

(Edited to add:  I think I may have plagiarized the menial tasks idea from someone.  Sorry, whoever that is.  But it was a good idea and stuck with me.  The gist of it is...find a way to get your goal, but keep the magick and the mundane separate and eyeing each other suspiciously.  That's...one of the greatest relationships, played the best, consistently, that I've seen in any role-playing game.)

[Desertman]

Even scumbag shitlord magickers have the opportunity to vote.

[nauta]

Something that occurred to me while reading this thread was that a lack of magick-based clans, and magick-specific clan roles is probably robbing new players of mage role-models.

I'm generally against magick super-groups like the CAM, but I wonder if maybe it should be opened up as an exclusive role for that purpose.  Limit it to 1-3 players, place them informally under the templarate, and establish some very clear OOC guidelines on what's expected.  That way, maybe we can bring some OOC leadership/guidance in for the unclanned, but avoid the silk-wearing commoner elites, and magick utopia-style goals.

I agree, but isn't that precisely what House Oash is for?

[Delirium]

Something that occurred to me while reading this thread was that a lack of magick-based clans, and magick-specific clan roles is probably robbing new players of mage role-models.

I'm generally against magick super-groups like the CAM, but I wonder if maybe it should be opened up as an exclusive role for that purpose.  Limit it to 1-3 players, place them informally under the templarate, and establish some very clear OOC guidelines on what's expected.  That way, maybe we can bring some OOC leadership/guidance in for the unclanned, but avoid the silk-wearing commoner elites, and magick utopia-style goals.

I agree, but isn't that precisely what House Oash is for?

It gives House Oash an entirely lopsided amount of coded power to draw on compared to Borsail and Tor. It also becomes the visible focus of the House instead of being a small subsection like it's supposed to be. I'd really rather see a small unafilliated group of mages who work together and closely with the templarate to keep the gemmed in line.

I've seen it happen unofficially, and it was fantastic. It kept the derps in line and helped bring together the experienced players so they could teach said derps how to not be derps.

[LauraMars]

It gives House Oash an entirely lopsided amount of coded power to draw on compared to Borsail and Tor. It also becomes the visible focus of the House instead of being a small subsection like it's supposed to be. I'd really rather see a small unafilliated group of mages who work together and closely with the templarate to keep the gemmed in line.

I've seen it happen unofficially, and it was fantastic. It kept the derps in line and helped bring together the experienced players so they could teach said derps how to not be derps.

Totes mcgotes.  I like the idea of a small gemmed mage organization that isn't Oash.  The idea behind CAM wasn't bad.  But like a lot of things during that period of the game, it was more over the top than would make sense today. (reversible silk coats! fancy titles! waterfalls!) The idea could be brought back, if the execution was adjusted to something more in line with Allanak's current feel. (Strict regulations! Asceticism! Humility!)  Staff support doesn't have to mean staff favorites and now you win the game.

Honestly, giving Oash magic and denying it to every other House (while simultaneously making Oash suffer negligible to zero social consequences) has never made sense to me and is a completely broken part of Allanak, but that's a separate topic.

[whitt]

I agree, but isn't that precisely what House Oash is for?

Oash only cares about the human mages.  I meant don't we all?  But just saying...

[nauta]

Something that occurred to me while reading this thread was that a lack of magick-based clans, and magick-specific clan roles is probably robbing new players of mage role-models.

I'm generally against magick super-groups like the CAM, but I wonder if maybe it should be opened up as an exclusive role for that purpose.  Limit it to 1-3 players, place them informally under the templarate, and establish some very clear OOC guidelines on what's expected.  That way, maybe we can bring some OOC leadership/guidance in for the unclanned, but avoid the silk-wearing commoner elites, and magick utopia-style goals.

I agree, but isn't that precisely what House Oash is for?

It gives House Oash an entirely lopsided amount of coded power to draw on compared to Borsail and Tor. It also becomes the visible focus of the House instead of being a small subsection like it's supposed to be. I'd really rather see a small unafilliated group of mages who work together and closely with the templarate to keep the gemmed in line.

I've seen it happen unofficially, and it was fantastic. It kept the derps in line and helped bring together the experienced players so they could teach said derps how to not be derps.

Yeah, I can see that too.  I really wanted something like that, frankly, and I don't buy this slippery slope argument that runs from the non-Oashi gemmed having some form of OOC-enabled leadership to gemmed wearing silks, proud gemmed, and gemmed-mundane public couples.

I think, to take a step back, one thing that makes it really hard to talk about this topic are some of the restrictions (which I'm not advocating pulling back, but I do want people who contribute to the topic to take them into account).

First, a lot of what Eyeball is talking about happened within the last RL year, so we can't talk about that.  I do agree with a lot of what Eyeball is saying, but I also disagree with some of it, and it's hard to really articulate that without getting into specifics.  I don't think all the problems he encountered were 'structural': some of them were just owing to the current players and staff and their interests.  What's frustrating is that some of the remarks from other people in the thread fly in the face of what happened on the ground in the last RL year, yet you can't really say anything about that.  So there's a lot of back-and-forth: "Yes, of course gemmed can do awesome fun plot-related things; no, um, no they can't."  The real answer is somewhere in between: as it stands right now, it is really hard to get a gemmed involved in a plot, and the plots you end up getting involved in are limited, and often, see (point 2) helicopter plots: "Cast this on this.  Thank you, Bye."

Second, in my view, your experience will depend on the kind of elementalist you are.  Some elementalists have powers and abilities that allow them to be utilized in plots that are more than just 'cast that spell on that thing, thank you, goodbye', whereas other elementalists are limited to plots that are just that.  But, unfortunately, we can't really talk about the different kinds of powers that different elementalists have.  (Vaguely, Drovians and Whirans are in a far better position to do meaningful work behind the scenes than, say, a Vivaduan or Elkrosian -- emphasis on 'meaningful' here.)

In my view, anything that will make it easier for non-Oashi gemmed to get something going on their own would be a positive benefit: a board for OOC coordination of playtimes, rumours, absent notices, and so on might well be sufficient, but there could be other things too.

(EDITED: Oops, I meant RL year not IG year, of course!)

[Desertman]

It gives House Oash an entirely lopsided amount of coded power to draw on compared to Borsail and Tor. It also becomes the visible focus of the House instead of being a small subsection like it's supposed to be. I'd really rather see a small unafilliated group of mages who work together and closely with the templarate to keep the gemmed in line.

I've seen it happen unofficially, and it was fantastic. It kept the derps in line and helped bring together the experienced players so they could teach said derps how to not be derps.

Totes mcgotes.  I like the idea of a small gemmed mage organization that isn't Oash.  The idea behind CAM wasn't bad.  But like a lot of things during that period of the game, it was more over the top than would make sense today. (reversible silk coats! fancy titles! waterfalls!) The idea could be brought back, if the execution was adjusted to something more in line with Allanak's current feel. (Strict regulations! Asceticism! Humility!)  Staff support doesn't have to mean staff favorites and now you win the game.

Honestly, giving Oash magic and denying it to every other House (while simultaneously making Oash suffer negligible to zero social consequences) has never made sense to me and is a completely broken part of Allanak, but that's a separate topic.

Truth.

I never understood why every other House in the Known world would dig their own eyeballs out with shame before hiring magickers, but Oash is allowed to do it with seemingly ZERO negative backlash to their public positioning within the city.

It seems like the House who did that would not only not be in the top ranks within the city, but would be the House that basically got snubbed by every other House due to their associations. They would basically be "The Byn" of the noble Houses.

Instead Oash enjoys a high-end prominent position within the city where everyone pretends they don't just dick around with some of the most terrifying nightmares the world has to offer.

Wut?

I guess the argument would be, "They are just pretending to not snub them because they are scared of their magickers.". That is a valid point.

Still...being a gemmed and being part of a noble House where that noble House backs you....which translates into nobles backing you..really seems to take a lot of the flavor out of playing a gemmed.

Most Oashi gemmed mages play like junior nobles in my experience because they know they have nobles backing them....I would say it is the wrong way to do it.....but they aren't wrong. They really do have that backing and I have seen it play out exactly in a way that would afford them that stature more than once.

[Jihelu]

Why doesn't everyone just do what Oash does?