At What Point Does Your Character Become Awesome?

[Suhuy]

Be honest, if you will.  It wouldn't bother you if I made a new character and starting waltzing around like I was the Grand Pimp of Allanak?

That's not the same as rags to riches, though. I don't care what level of society a PC fresh out of chargen is, I hate when they walk around like they're the top dog on day 1. Because they're not yet. Even a noble or templar needs to establish themselves before they act like they own the place. But that's not rags to riches, that's simply developing a reputation for your character. You can be a stat-boosted 'Rinth elf defiler with literacy and heaps of other goodies from day 1, but you still don't have any street cred yet.

[Desertman]

Be honest, if you will.  It wouldn't bother you if I made a new character and starting waltzing around like I was the Grand Pimp of Allanak?

That's not the same as rags to riches, though. I don't care what level of society a PC fresh out of chargen is, I hate when they walk around like they're the top dog on day 1. Because they're not yet. Even a noble or templar needs to establish themselves before they act like they own the place. But that's not rags to riches, that's simply developing a reputation for your character. You can be a stat-boosted 'Rinth elf defiler with literacy and heaps of other goodies from day 1, but you still don't have any street cred yet.

+1

I've had a couple of new characters come up to my vets and act like they were the rulers of the world.....and I didn't even know their names.

Had them both killed. Regret nothing.

[Narf]

This is probably yet another misconception that I have (veteran player) based upon learning the game quite a while ago.

Be honest, if you will.  It wouldn't bother you if I made a new character and starting waltzing around like I was the Grand Pimp of Allanak?

People do this on occasion. It used to bother me a tiny bit, but it doesn't anymore.

Think of it this way: Not everyone is going to write a background about how they're a nobody that's never done anything of import. It would get immensely repetitive if every single character you ever made was like this. So once in a while you have a character with a background where they actually matter (at least within a specific subculture). If they have this it would be poor roleplaying to walk into the game acting like they were no one special just because OOCly they're new.

Sometimes you just have to play a character a little cocky because you don't want to play "Character who's never done anything important #578" even if they haven't done much in game yet. It's the nature of the beast.

[nauta]

There's also a difference between being codedly awesome (respected/feared by other players) and being a somebody in the culture of Zalanthas (repsected/feared by other characters). 

Sure, you can kill a mekillot, but you are still, basically, a commoner with no affiliations at all; or, flip it around the other way, sure you can't kill a mekillot, but you are Lord Wow Oash.

[Fujikoma]

There's also a difference between being codedly awesome (respected/feared by other players) and being a somebody in the culture of Zalanthas (repsected/feared by other characters). 

Sure, you can kill a mekillot, but you are still, basically, a commoner with no affiliations at all; or, flip it around the other way, sure you can't kill a mekillot, but you are Lord Wow Oash.

You could leverage your coded awesomeness to become useful to Lord Wow Oash's cultural awesomeness, thereby gaining some status for yourself to go with your coded awesomeness, provided you meet certain prerequisites.

Some of my favorite characters I've encountered IG have had neither, and my have even been day 1 characters. I think that's where it becomes clear that, yes, this character is awesome.

[seidhr]

Where'd the idea that we like the rags to riches story come from?

Some of my favorite PCs were never wealthy or socially notable.

This is probably yet another misconception that I have (veteran player) based upon learning the game quite a while ago.

Be honest, if you will.  It wouldn't bother you if I made a new character and starting waltzing around like I was the Grand Pimp of Allanak?

It would only bother me if you were doing something that conflicted with the game's setting or documentation in some way.  It's kind of a broad role, "Grand Pimp of Allanak," you know?  If you mean in the sense that you came into the game and were claiming that you had the best hoes for your brothel that anyone has ever seen - no that wouldn't bother me in the slightest.

Less literally, if you were trying to say that your newbie merchant made better weapons than Salarr and was richer, too - well, you could certainly claim that, but everyone would know you were full of shit.  And there's nothing wrong with playing a character that has delusions of grandeur.

Without specifics it'd be really hard for me to give an opinion, myself.

From time to time we do get apps in the approval queue that have a really grandoise background that probably isn't very thematic, but this is almost always from newbies - it goes hand in hand with their Legolas/Drizzt elite archer/warrior concept.

In the sense that you're playing a nobody who thinks he's Billy Badass - that's totally fine.  I know several people who are like that IRL.  

[Ath]

I have to disagree also.  One of my favorite characters was a former Byn Sergeant (got it approved by staff at the time) that wanted nothing to do with the Byn anymore and was just crazy, he was an old begger.  Well, a few people would toss him coins and the Bynners would all respect him, but he would actually get uncomfortable when he had too much money.  At the points I would junk or get rid of coins, by either buying spice, paying for whores, or whatever... just have one heck of a bender and he'd wake from a haze and not remember what happened.  I would purposely find money-sinks to get rid of the wealth.

My first character and 10+ large and didn't even have a clue what to do with it.  I ended up storing him because I was bored and didn't know what to do.  I was such a newb then.  I always try to find uses for extra coins, if anything, get others to do things for the coins.

[Delirium]

I've had a couple of new characters come up to my vets and act like they were the rulers of the world.....and I didn't even know their names.

This part I'd have to quibble with. Just because your character has been actively played for X amount of time, doesn't mean they suddenly know everyone who is everyone.

I've seen PCs who vastly outranked other PCs in-game get treated as less important because the less important PC had "been around" longer.

Gotta remember that virtual world. If you met a Senator NPC would you treat it with disrespect since doesn't have a visible footprint in the PC microcosm? Didn't think so.

[Desertman]

I've had a couple of new characters come up to my vets and act like they were the rulers of the world.....and I didn't even know their names.

This part I'd have to quibble with. Just because your character has been actively played for X amount of time, doesn't mean they suddenly know everyone who is everyone.

I've seen PCs who vastly outranked other PCs in-game get treated as less important because the less important PC had "been around" longer.

Gotta remember that virtual world. If you met a Senator NPC would you treat it with disrespect since doesn't have a visible footprint in the PC microcosm? Didn't think so.

They are dead. I am alive. I was right.

(They were just random nobody commoners. I absolutely agree with your statement about the virtual world and ranking officials etc.)

At the same time, respect earned through clout garnered through deeds does tend to have more power than respect earned through awarded (especially special app/staff sponsored) rank.

That's just common sense. You pretend to respect the guy who is a "Paper-Bag Leader", because you have to, and you truly respect the guy who is "Proven Leader". That's true in real life and in game.

[Nyr]

As for feared and respected, Marauder Moe has the right of it.  Once someone is perceived as one who is feared and respected, they are feared and respected.  There are a multitude of routes to get there, though.

This was kind of what I was afraid of.  To dramatize what I don't quite think you're saying, but still want to confirm anyway, is that the way to become popular is to attend the right parties, and the way to get into good parties is to be popular.  

I think you are misconstruing the answer I gave here as an answer to a question you didn't ask.

To elaborate on your dramatization and correct it, this is what your analogy should have been:
"At what point am I popular?"

At which point the dramatized answer would have been:
"You are popular when other people think you are popular."

You weren't asking how to become feared and respected...you were asking when it happens.  For that part of the matter, I agree with Marauder Moe, and that's why I wrote what I did.  Here is what he wrote:

I don't understand why there needs to be a "should" about it.

A character is feared and respected when they are feared and respected.  I don't think any other qualifications, time or otherwise, are necessary.

If you want to know how to become feared and respected, that's a different question, but you can answer a lot of it based on how you see it.  Reverse the question.  Who have you feared and respected IC in the past?  Why did you fear and respect them?

[AdamBlue]

I friggin' love Kudos. Those are how I know I'm doing a good job, and so far, I think I'm alright.

[Inks]

I once had a pc that would take credit for unpopular pcs he found dead. He was feared and respected long before he could fight his way out of a wet paper bag.


What makes a pc awesome for me is that I really feel it, I know the quirks of my pcs character and I stay ic with it all the time. My current pc is one, I have had maybe two or three other pcs I really got into and loved.

[Fujikoma]

Personally loved one of your PCs to pieces, Inks, ruined the Byn for me when he died, it was all downhill, albeit slowly, from there... I think it's been a year?

[Harmless]

being long-lived and having many contacts as well. Long-lived and having no contacts and being involved in nothing is the polar opposite of awesome, it's awful.

[Inks]

Personally loved one of your PCs to pieces, Inks, ruined the Byn for me when he died, it was all downhill, albeit slowly, from there... I think it's been a year?

Probably closer to two. Netin was one of the three, for sure <3

[Fujikoma]

Personally loved one of your PCs to pieces, Inks, ruined the Byn for me when he died, it was all downhill, albeit slowly, from there... I think it's been a year?

Probably closer to two. Netin was one of the three, for sure <3

<3 D'awwww...

Damnit. But yeah, many PCs I meet, I just, absolutely fall in love with their stories, personalities, the way they can maintain a conversation, emotes, for different reasons. Sometimes I even am quite fond OOCly of PCs my PC hates. That's always a rough position to be in, but I just have to force myself to stay in character.

[Tuannon]

I rarely think my characters are awesome, some of them have had their moments.. but most I think are pretty normal dudes doing pretty normal stuff.

Most of the time I'm happier to be a supporting character than the main focus of attention though, I think I used to serve as a good foil to Raleris Winrothol and a another a great lackey to Ceylara Borsail.. and Kharad Tor.. and the other Tor.. and the Tor after him.. and Mallor Tor.

[ibusoe]

I have to disagree also.  One of my favorite characters was a former Byn Sergeant (got it approved by staff at the time) that wanted nothing to do with the Byn anymore and was just crazy, he was an old begger.  Well, a few people would toss him coins and the Bynners would all respect him, but he would actually get uncomfortable when he had too much money.  At the points I would junk or get rid of coins, by either buying spice, paying for whores, or whatever... just have one heck of a bender and he'd wake from a haze and not remember what happened.  I would purposely find money-sinks to get rid of the wealth.

Yeah, I agree that the staff are usually not too conservative about that.  I've apped cool stuff in my character's background, and provided that it followed the Cardinal Rule and fit the game, staff have usually approved it.  I've only had one idea shot down, actually.

I didn't have the same luck as you did when I tried to play the "former Byn Sargeant" archetype.  People still pretty much expected me to start at the bottom of the Funnel, but perhaps in time social attitudes will change.

I'll concede you, Nyr and seidhr the point that I think players (see above) have more of a fascination with the rags to riches story than the current staff do.

I've seen PCs who vastly outranked other PCs in-game get treated as less important because the less important PC had "been around" longer.

Yeah, this is awful.  I think it's getting better though.

I think you are misconstruing the answer I gave here as an answer to a question you didn't ask.

To elaborate on your dramatization and correct it, this is what your analogy should have been:
"At what point am I popular?"

At which point the dramatized answer would have been:
"You are popular when other people think you are popular."

You weren't asking how to become feared and respected...you were asking when it happens.  For that part of the matter, I agree with Marauder Moe, and that's why I wrote what I did.  Here is what he wrote:

If you want to know how to become feared and respected, that's a different question, but you can answer a lot of it based on how you see it.  Reverse the question.  Who have you feared and respected IC in the past?  Why did you fear and respect them?

Thank you for your response. 

I actually have a pretty good handle on how to get fear, obedience or respect out of PCs.  It's NPCs that I think I have trouble with.  I think sometimes players and staff can disagree on how badassed a particular PC is.  I wanted to put some firm metrics on the situation so I was asking for ideas.  Unfortunately this is not an easy problem to solve.  I think the best solution seen in this thread so far is from Quell, who wrote:

"How long this takes depends on the interesting things you're aiming for. Killing mekillots would probably take a long time, but mastercrafting something spiffy doesn't really take a huge amount of playtime.
And then there's always goals that don't take stats or skills at all, though usually if they count as "awesome" they'll probably take some reputation. Getting a decent reputation might take a few months of regular play. "

To me, that makes total sense.  If your character showed up to a sewing circle, and the sewing matrons were like, "Who the fuck are you, you think you can sew?" and you flat-out master crafted something right there in front of them, I think the sewing matrons would admit you to the circle.  At that point, you're bad-assed.

Likewise with the example I made with the person trying to intimidate some prison guards, I agree with Quell that if you killed a mekillot right in front of the guards, they'd just move the heck out of your way after that. 

So in both cases if we needed to assign pass/fail ratings to someone, in both of those situations you'd pass as a badass. 

But it's a lot easier to intimidate a mercenary than a soldier, and it's a lot easier to intimidate a soldier than a templar, and it's a lot easier to intimidate a templar than a room full of templars.  And my question wasn't really 100% about intimidation, I can imagine that if one of the heroes from the Copper Wars walked up to a Salarr store, and was a bit short on cash, the Salarr dude would very quietly extend a discount to a known patriot. 

In playing with different dungeon masters over the years in a variety of games, this is one of the more difficult points for a dungeon master to get.  But for the moment I'm happy to have the simple metric that mekillot slaying and/or mastercrafting qualifies you as a person of importance, irrespective of whatever else you are or aren't accomplishing in your character's life.  It's a start.

People do this on occasion. It used to bother me a tiny bit, but it doesn't anymore.

Think of it this way: Not everyone is going to write a background about how they're a nobody that's never done anything of import. It would get immensely repetitive if every single character you ever made was like this. So once in a while you have a character with a background where they actually matter (at least within a specific subculture). If they have this it would be poor roleplaying to walk into the game acting like they were no one special just because OOCly they're new.

Sometimes you just have to play a character a little cocky because you don't want to play "Character who's never done anything important #578" even if they haven't done much in game yet. It's the nature of the beast.

[Nyr]

You can't put firm metrics on it.  You can try, but you'll either fail to come up with something definitive, or make it simplistic as above, where skillgriding = badassery. This is an RPI, so you have to take more into account than "skills" and include roleplay and the overall situation.

How do you command fear, obedience, or respect out of NPCs?  They have to be animated to elicit such reactions, unless you mean codedly...in which case, no, we do not have reputation code (yet).  For those animations, it depends on roleplay and the overall situation.  

You want to command fear from a soldier NPC that is animated?

Where are you?  In Allanak proper, close to other soldiers and easy reinforcements?  Unless you're literally glowing and about to toss out a fireball, there's not much reason to expect that fear.  Let's say you have this soldier subdued in your apartment.  The situation has changed.  They are in your control.  Even if they get word out to their mates, you hold that one life in your hand.  Let's move to a different locale...are you in the 'rinth?  Why's the soldier there, then?  That soldier is out of his element; he should be fearful even if he isn't showing it.  Are YOU from the 'rinth?  If not, you probably aren't on familiar ground, either, and you should be somewhat fearful, too--putting you both on the same level.  

I'm not sure how many situations I can provide here, but the underlying point is that it is not a simple metric.

[Desertman]

I command fear by all of my PC's being hard as fuck. Do you hear me Nyr? HARD AS FUCK WARRIORS EVERY SINGLE TIME!!!

Gitohnmuhlvlbro

[RogueGunslinger]

My PC generally becomes awesome when their armor is all in New stage, with bits in Used and Cracked.

[Jihelu]

Get to the point where people talk shit about you behind your back but treat you nice up front.

That means you've done good.

Or are just a noble.

[ibusoe]

I'm not sure how many situations I can provide here, but the underlying point is that it is not a simple metric.

Nor should you need to.  The examples you provided were fantastic, and more nuanced than any that I provided.

At the very least, this is an especially satisfying answer given that it shows you're not only applying logic to the situation, but you've given the situation better consideration than I'd be able to at a glance.

If I may, would you consider reviewing your policy?  I think your policy could be amended to add a bias in favor of a PC when interacting with an NPC.
My present assumption is that current policy favors NPCs for reasons that I'd be happy to outline if there are disagreements, but I'd be willing to concede that you and your staff have worked tirelessly to clear up any number of misconceptions on the part of players in recent weeks, based in large part upon the way that things used to be run.

Thanks in advance.

[seidhr]

There's no bias one way or the other, why would there be?

[Morrolan]

My character becomes awesome when Tek takes notice.