A reasoned discussion of the current state of Armageddon vis-a-vis Olden Times

[nauta]

My interpretation of the response to nauta's request is that she could have endlessly emoted planting the seedling and caring for it, even setting out arranged seedling objects if such things exist in the world, yet each reboot there would be an empty pot. This response about not doing a plant at all just reinforces that.

Ugh, that's not the right interpretation.  I did some emoting, asked staff if it took, and staff explained the lore and history and why it was probably a bad idea.  So I stopped, but I wasn't told to stop.  Staff handled it fine, Eyeball.  Just, I dunno, pick another example.

I should say, though, that the room descriptions and the 'look north' off Caravan's suggests that there are such plants there, especially the 'look north', but Jave said she'd take care of it.  No big deal.

[Eyeball]

My interpretation of the response to nauta's request is that she could have endlessly emoted planting the seedling and caring for it, even setting out arranged seedling objects if such things exist in the world, yet each reboot there would be an empty pot. This response about not doing a plant at all just reinforces that.

Ugh, that's not the right interpretation.  I did some emoting, asked staff if it took, and staff explained the lore and history and why it was probably a bad idea.  So I stopped, but I wasn't told to stop.  Staff handled it fine, Eyeball.  Just, I dunno, pick another example.

I should say, though, that the room descriptions and the 'look north' off Caravan's suggests that there are such plants there, especially the 'look north', but Jave said she'd take care of it.  No big deal.

I'm not trying to describe what happened, I'm describing my interpretation of the reply and how I would have felt discouraged by it.

[BadSkeelz]

You never got to experience the game as it was before the Arm 2.0 annoucement.

Thank God. A lot of it sounds ridiculous.

[Eyeball]

You never got to experience the game as it was before the Arm 2.0 annoucement.

Thank God. A lot of it sounds ridiculous.

Stop wagging your tail, Dogbert.

[Delirium]

Keep it civil please, both of you.

[Eyeball]

Keep it civil please, both of you.

It's not an insult, actually.

[BadSkeelz]

I'm not trying to describe what happened, I'm describing my interpretation of the reply and how I would have felt discouraged by it.

What's there to be discouraged by? You're trying to raise a plant in a harsh desert setting. If the pot resets (which it shouldn't, if you're doing this in a save room), it's easy to rationalize it as the tree dying to the elements. I.e. a chance for more RP. Start over, keep plugging away at it. You might actually find success. Or not, because this is Zalanthas.

Seriously, what are you discouraged by? That the game is not bending over to accommodate your pet project that, if successful, is going to have zero impact on the game?

It sounds like you're paralyzed from acting if you don't get an unambiguous response from Staff that you'll succeed and achieve some sort of permanent change. In which case, no wonder you're discouraged and feel trapped. The way to move forward from that is to do your thing anyway regardless of reported chances of success.

Stop worrying about the OOC reception of your plot. If it makes sense for your character, just do it. Report it to Staff, but don't get discouraged if they lay out some IC challenges you may face.

[Malken]

Anyways. The game is what it is and the sweeping changes that some are wanting in Staff policy is not going to change, so you either play with that knowledge in mind or you don't and move on. It's no big deal, really. Armageddon is not a religion or a cult, you can move on and find something else to play.

It reminds me of games like Ultima Online, Dark Age of Camelot or Asheron's Call - These were all -awesome- games and they did everything perfect for their time but eventually newer games came out and people moved on.

I don't play Arm anymore because it's not the game that I used to love anymore but that's life - I've moved on, I just need to find a GDB replacement, as well, then I'll be set!

It's OKAY, people. Staff have their own ways of doing things and it works for them and it works for the players that are still playing, but the rest of us can just move on and the world will keep on turning, yo.

Don't be a weirdo that continues to play a game they are bored with, or dislike, or continue to crusade for sweeping changes in Staff policies or Staff themselves, that makes you just -weird-, ya dingus! Just move on.

[Eyeball]

I don't really see my suggestions as amounting to a sweeping change, nor feel like a weirdo given that I'm not the only one here who has mentioned such things. I don't think posting more than once about a particular topic amounts to a crusade.

However... several people have told me now that the barriers are in my imagination rather than being real. So I'll give an idea or so a try over the next year or two and see how things go then.  

[seidhr]

So... basically you could just emote tending to the plant and roleplay it forever and ever, keep doing it, and nobody would mind one bit.  It could be your own little internalized plot, and that's a-okay.  However, after doing a bit of that - you came to staff and asked for an interpretation of what happened to it, and you were given an answer based on something that happened historically with plants in that area.  You may not have liked the answer, but there it was.

The answer you were given was based on the history for the area, not a staff workload perspective - but asking for permanent world change every time anyone does something that's pretty small in the grand scheme of things is kind of crazy.  "wish all Hey guys I just left a half empty beer on the bar at the Gaj, can you save the room so it's there after the boot?"  If staff responded to this sort of thing, it sets a precedent and pretty soon you'd have everyone wanting to leave their mark.

Don't get me wrong, it would be totally awesome if we had a fully persistent world (handled automatically by the code), but we aren't even close to being there yet.  There are modern and commercially produced games with budgets in the tens of millions of dollars that can't even do that.  I haven't seen it done well in an online game at all.

[AdamBlue]

Anyways. The game is what it is and the sweeping changes that some are wanting in Staff policy is not going to change, so you either play with that knowledge in mind or you don't and move on. It's no big deal, really. Armageddon is not a religion or a cult, you can move on and find something else to play.

It reminds me of games like Ultima Online, Dark Age of Camelot or Asheron's Call - These were all -awesome- games and they did everything perfect for their time but eventually newer games came out and people moved on.

I don't play Arm anymore because it's not the game that I used to love anymore but that's life - I've moved on, I just need to find a GDB replacement, as well, then I'll be set!

It's OKAY, people. Staff have their own ways of doing things and it works for them and it works for the players that are still playing, but the rest of us can just move on and the world will keep on turning, yo.

Don't be a weirdo that continues to play a game they are bored with, or dislike, or continue to crusade for sweeping changes in Staff policies or Staff themselves, that makes you just -weird-, ya dingus! Just move on.

Are you- Are you talking to yourself, here? I think of a majority of people playing still like the game. There's no real internal struggle to stop playing or not.

[wizturbo]

However... several people have told me now that the barriers are in my imagination rather than being real. So I'll give an idea or so a try over the next year or two and see how things go then.  

I think the GDB makes the barriers seem like this:




When in reality, they're more like this:




Sure, climbing over a chain link fence is annoying sometimes...and those dogs look like they might bark at you if you dont give me a dog biscuit first...but that's about it and then you can have your little shrub or whatever.

[Old Kank]

Aaaaaaaaaaaaand we're going back to my original post that started this whole thread, that Armageddon is now less of a "game" for many and more of a red-tape labyrinth that would put France's bureaucracy to shame.

Can I just hate on the red-tape generating request tool for a minute?

I have an idea.  I think it would be fun.  I think it's completely within the scope of the game, and it wouldn't even be all that hard to set up - mostly just an approved back story, and maybe a little initial set-up.

I think it's a stretch.  A long stretch.  I don't feel like wasting one of my special apps only to be told, "No, that would be too powerful," or "No, we don't like you that much."  I don't even have to be the one playing or driving the idea, but I don't feel like I have any other route to bring this idea to fruition.

I wish we had a "General Discussion" or "Shoot the shit with a bored staffer" option in the request tool.

Edited to add:  I know there's an "Idea" option, but I think the idea command has conditioned me to believe it won't be reviewed or responded to in anything approaching a timely manner.

[seidhr]

Aaaaaaaaaaaaand we're going back to my original post that started this whole thread, that Armageddon is now less of a "game" for many and more of a red-tape labyrinth that would put France's bureaucracy to shame.

Can I just hate on the red-tape generating request tool for a minute?

I have an idea.  I think it would be fun.  I think it's completely within the scope of the game, and it wouldn't even be all that hard to set up - mostly just an approved back story, and maybe a little initial set-up.

I think it's a stretch.  A long stretch.  I don't feel like wasting one of my special apps only to be told, "No, that would be too powerful," or "No, we don't like you that much."  I don't even have to be the one playing or driving the idea, but I don't feel like I have any other route to bring this idea to fruition.

I wish we had a "General Discussion" or "Shoot the shit with a bored staffer" option in the request tool.

Edited to add:  I know there's an "Idea" option, but I think the idea command has conditioned me to believe it won't be reviewed or responded to in anything approaching a timely manner.

A couple staff hang out in Teamspeak from time to time, you could always try your luck there.

[sleepyhead]

Is it not possible to send a request asking if a certain concept is too wacky to hope to spec app for, no matter what the details are?

[Rokal]

Aaaaaaaaaaaaand we're going back to my original post that started this whole thread, that Armageddon is now less of a "game" for many and more of a red-tape labyrinth that would put France's bureaucracy to shame.

Can I just hate on the red-tape generating request tool for a minute?

I have an idea.  I think it would be fun.  I think it's completely within the scope of the game, and it wouldn't even be all that hard to set up - mostly just an approved back story, and maybe a little initial set-up.

I think it's a stretch.  A long stretch.  I don't feel like wasting one of my special apps only to be told, "No, that would be too powerful," or "No, we don't like you that much."  I don't even have to be the one playing or driving the idea, but I don't feel like I have any other route to bring this idea to fruition.

I wish we had a "General Discussion" or "Shoot the shit with a bored staffer" option in the request tool.

Edited to add:  I know there's an "Idea" option, but I think the idea command has conditioned me to believe it won't be reviewed or responded to in anything approaching a timely manner.

A couple staff hang out in Teamspeak from time to time, you could always try your luck there.

I relaly aught to drop in and say hi on that teamspeak sometime.

time to buy a new headset.

[Case]

Stop worrying about Staff and just play the game. If you're playing in a confident, reasoned manner that takes the game world in to account and is respectful of the docs, you may find that favorable Staff attention will come to you. And even if it doesn't, that shouldn't be the metric on which you judge whether the game is fun or not. You should be playing and roleplaying with other players.

Also, stop actively trying to impart permanent change in the game.

The fact is that I'm not a hardass and tend to play fairly inoffensive characters. But reading 15 pages of people trying to justify why the game sucks in their own head, it's easy for me to understand why so much of our vaunted "Murder, Corruption, and Betrayal" is due to high school level pettiness and insecurity.

I pretty much do this and I never have issues with staff or my own fun. Although I do shoot for permanent changes.


Also, lol, Badskeelz is not a hardass. He's the sweetest guy IRL

[Patuk]

I'm just dropping by again to let it forever be heard that upvotes and downvotes would make the GDB even more unpleasant to read than it already can be

[wizturbo]

I'm just dropping by again to let it forever be heard that upvotes and downvotes would make the GDB even more unpleasant to read than it already can be

And I'd like to say I wish I could downvote your comment, to indicate I disagree, without having to type this.

There are many more lurkers than posters on the GDB, I don't see why they can't be given a voice.  Also, platforms like Reddit have vastly better search functionality, and would cost nothing to operate.

[Malken]

I'm just dropping by again to let it forever be heard that upvotes and downvotes would make the GDB even more unpleasant to read than it already can be

And I'd like to say I wish I could downvote your comment, to indicate I disagree, without having to type this.

There are many more lurkers than posters on the GDB, I don't see why they can't be given a voice.  Also, platforms like Reddit have vastly better search functionality, and would cost nothing to operate.

Me and my cats would downvote you to oblivion and every other pro-Staffer messages as well, just so I can pretend that my position is the majority, then I would totally call the OP a flag of Canada because, let's face it, he totally is one.

[nauta]

I'm just dropping by again to let it forever be heard that upvotes and downvotes would make the GDB even more unpleasant to read than it already can be

And I'd like to say I wish I could downvote your comment, to indicate I disagree, without having to type this.

There are many more lurkers than posters on the GDB, I don't see why they can't be given a voice.  Also, platforms like Reddit have vastly better search functionality, and would cost nothing to operate.

Me and my cats would downvote you to oblivion and every other pro-Staffer messages as well, just so I can pretend that my position is the majority, then I would totally call the OP a [redacted] because, let's face it, he totally is one.

I tried to report this to the moderators, but it's just spinning.  Yeah, don't, um, use that word, even to refer to yourself.  Thanks.

[Patuk]

Search functionality is very different from upvotes/downvotes, though. If people lurk instead of post, they can do so, and post at any given point they want to. I've seen what upvotes and downvotes can do to MUDding communities, and it's not pretty. Not at all.

[Akariel]

I'm just dropping by again to let it forever be heard that upvotes and downvotes would make the GDB even more unpleasant to read than it already can be

And I'd like to say I wish I could downvote your comment, to indicate I disagree, without having to type this.

There are many more lurkers than posters on the GDB, I don't see why they can't be given a voice.  Also, platforms like Reddit have vastly better search functionality, and would cost nothing to operate.

Me and my cats would downvote you to oblivion and every other pro-Staffer messages as well, just so I can pretend that my position is the majority, then I would totally call the OP a [redacted] because, let's face it, he totally is one.

I tried to report this to the moderators, but it's just spinning.  Yeah, don't, um, use that word, even to refer to yourself.  Thanks.

It got to us.

[Malken]

I tried to report this to the moderators, but it's just spinning.  Yeah, don't, um, use that word, even to refer to yourself.  Thanks.

No problemo. I was just trying to fit everything that is terrible with Reddit in one silly sentence.

[ibusoe]

I tried to report this to the moderators, but it's just spinning.  Yeah, don't, um, use that word, even to refer to yourself.  Thanks.

Personally, I find political correctness to be far more offensive, though.  People should consider how offensive political correctness is.