The Gaj

[Bast]

People should get stained or dirty sitting in the Gaj or even pick of smell of vomit and urine ...I think that would keep a lot of the characters that shouldn't be hanging out their in the first place out. It would be even better if you could run the risk of getting lice from hanging out in there for too long. Maybe have a expensive de-licing powder at the herbalists shop you'd need to use to get ride of them..and while you have them get occasional echos about feeling your head itch (kinda like you get echos while on spice) or hems of the bugs crawling around in your hair..Just a random though 

[wizturbo]

I like this.  +1

[musashi]

Eh. I get where you're coming from, and I think everyone does a collective eye roll when they see the tressy-tressed aide dripping silk just hanging out at the Zalanthan equivalent of a dirty biker bar.

But we're a small game, and we want to interact with other people, and the Gaj is "the bar" in Allanak. It's where you start play, it's home base. There are other bars in the city ... But to me it feels like they are utilised when you want to meet someone else in a semi-private setting.

Given all of that, I don't want to "punish" people for being in the Gaj. It strikes me as a playability issue.

[Refugee]

Even as an aide "dripping silk" you have to develop contacts and hire people to do things, and listen for rumors, and you find them in the Gaj.

With the Atrium having become the place to hang out for the well-dressed set these days, the Red's doesn't have the traffic it did before the Atrium reopened.  I'd like to see less of the upper crust commoner sorts hanging out in the Atrium, so they gather in the Red's again. And I'd like to see nobles in there too, like they used to be.  It's like they're not public at all, holing up behind a clan wall all the time.  It was better when people could gather and interact with them openly, without being members of the Atrium clan. 

I don't blame them for gathering in the Atrium sometimes, it's nice to have the privacy and play with a small controlled group.  But I don't think it's good for the game for them to stay away from the populace, even if it is more realistic.  People want to play with them.

Until that happens, though, punishing people for going to the Gaj is just trying to force them into the Atrium.

[Lizzie]

Even as an aide "dripping silk" you have to develop contacts and hire people to do things, and listen for rumors, and you find them in the Gaj.

With the Atrium having become the place to hang out for the well-dressed set these days, the Red's doesn't have the traffic it did before the Atrium reopened.  I'd like to see less of the upper crust commoner sorts hanging out in the Atrium, so they gather in the Red's again. And I'd like to see nobles in there too, like they used to be.  It's like they're not public at all, holing up behind a clan wall all the time.  It was better when people could gather and interact with them openly, without being members of the Atrium clan. 

I don't blame them for gathering in the Atrium sometimes, it's nice to have the privacy and play with a small controlled group.  But I don't think it's good for the game for them to stay away from the populace, even if it is more realistic.  People want to play with them.

Until that happens, though, punishing people for going to the Gaj is just trying to force them into the Atrium.

That's so very sad, really. Red's goes through phases when it's busy - but it's like pulling teeth to keep it that way. No one should have to work hard to make that place busy. It has such a rich history that includes commoners who aren't dripping in silk - and since when has it been acceptable for commoners to be dripping in silk, other than GMH family members and *senior* aides of noble houses? It sounds like Allanak is becoming Tulukified. That makes me sad.

[musashi]

The dripping in silk comment was tongue in cheek. I haven't personally seen any aides walking around decked out in silks in Allanak. I never saw any in Tuluk either for that matter, even when playing a templar there.

But from time to time you do see people in the Gaj who look "too well dressed" to be in the Gaj. It happens, but since I've been playing in Allanak I've only see it a couple of times. It's normally just a bunch of bynners and rinithi rats with the odd militia soldier slumming through.

[Erythil]

My experience with a noble was that when I was in Reds, no one would enter Reds.

[CodeMaster]

My experience with a noble was that when I was in Reds, no one would enter Reds.

Being a noble must be super challenging.  I'd hope to hell I find the right minions and fast.

[Erythil]

My experience with a noble was that when I was in Reds, no one would enter Reds.

Being a noble must be super challenging.  I'd hope to hell I find the right minions and fast.

It's only as challenging as the goals you set for yourself.  I'm a bit of a perfectionist, so I constantly felt like I was failing, but really you're mostly there to provide flavor and context and jobs for people.  Even if you're incompetent (which I thought I was), you're giving someone else the ability to have fun sticking it to the man.

[musashi]

My experience with a noble was that when I was in Reds, no one would enter Reds.

This is one of the things I like better about Tuluk. The nobility and to an extent even the templarate were more approachable for the common classes because of the culture and history of the city-state.

Allanak has a very different culture, and in that culture if you see a noble or a Templar you quietly try to go the other way and avoid attracting notice.

From a playability standpoint ... That makes a sponsored role in Allanak a bit more of a lonely one compared to what you can could get into up north.

... ... so basically yeah. If I see your noble sitting in Reds, odds are I'm not going in there unless I work for you. Because the last thing an average commoner wants is for a noble or templar to know they exist.

[Armaddict]

My experience with a noble was that when I was in Reds, no one would enter Reds.

This is one of the things I like better about Tuluk. The nobility and to an extent even the templarate were more approachable for the common classes because of the culture and history of the city-state.

Allanak has a very different culture, and in that culture if you see a noble or a Templar you quietly try to go the other way and avoid attracting notice.

From a playability standpoint ... That makes a sponsored role in Allanak a bit more of a lonely one compared to what you can could get into up north.

... ... so basically yeah. If I see your noble sitting in Reds, odds are I'm not going in there unless I work for you. Because the last thing an average commoner wants is for a noble or templar to know they exist.

In my experience, in recent times, it's been less about the sponsored role themselves and more their underlings insisting that they, too, should not ever have to be exposed to the commoners of the world.  The nobles, on average, are fairly tame in comparison.

[musashi]

I wasn't making a statement about anyone's play.

I was referring to the documentation that sets the culture for the two cities.

Because of the history surrounding the occupation the nobility of the North were closer to the commoners than the nobility of Allanak are.

From a playability standpoint, it made interaction between the sponsored roles and the common folk easier to do.

[Alesan]

From what I see, there aren't that many people going into the Gaj when they shouldn't, and when those super clean aide PCs do come in, they seem to do well at not sticking around. I don't think characters need to be punished further for choosing to try to find PCs to interact with. It's hard enough to do that as it is, sometimes.

Also good to know what has Red's so empty. That's depressing.

[The Silence of the Erdlus]

I remember, after having played in Allanak forever, rolling a tuluki and being nervous around a northern Templar who was sitting in the Sanctuary smoking. He invited me to smoke with him and we just sat there, hanging out until I relaxed (something I knew I should have done sooner.)

Rp with nobles as an indie human commoner well... you can have fun, but it doesn't become a relaxed experience in any way. I don't know if things change for close-knit aides or people like that.

[solera]

Subsequent events have shown it was wise not to relax around the northern Templarate 
I assume the Gaj patronage represents the standards of the average vpc commoner, so we have to roll with the behavior there as being "normal" ?

[ibusoe]

Subsequent events have shown it was wise not to relax around the northern Templarate 
I assume the Gaj patronage represents the standards of the average vpc commoner, so we have to roll with the behavior there as being "normal" ?

I think that people misunderstand the Gaj.  The Gaj is essentially the shittiest bar in the Commons Quarter, which isn't a great neighborhood to begin with.  Most of the players probably have a misunderstanding about what a "Dive Bar" is.  There is a difference between a corner bar or a neighborhood bar, and a dive bar.  What most people call a dive bar who've never been to one, is actually a neighborhood bar.  A neighborhood bar is kind of like a run down place where you can grab a beer and hang out with your friends, it's not to fancy.

A dive bar is a place that one goes to meet prostitutes and to transact drug deals.  Most employees of the GMH, including hunters and soldiers would be out of place at the Gaj.

The NPC who drink at the Gaj will be people who have been kicked out of every other bar in the neighborhood.  These people aren't happy to be there, but they simply have a reputation and wouldn't be allowed anywhere else.

I like the original post.  It should get brownie points for being the most metal post of the week.  Other than those suggestions, I think it might make sense to move the starting location to the Red's, and for plenty of the playerbase to shift over there. 

If the staff actually tried to implement that, I think people would have kittens.  Musashi is right.  People just really like the Gaj.

[wizturbo]

I think that people misunderstand the Gaj.  The Gaj is essentially the shittiest bar in the Commons Quarter, which isn't a great neighborhood to begin with.  Most of the players probably have a misunderstanding about what a "Dive Bar" is.

My interpretation of what the Gaj is doesn't match up with yours.  The Gaj and the Gladiator isn't a dive bar in my mind, it's the Zalanthian equivalent of a sports bar (with gladiator games being the sport).  It just so happens that the Zalanthian equivalent of a sports bar, is about what you'd expect from the shittiest dive bar in the real world.  A Zalanthian dive bar can be found in the 'rinth.

Noble and merchant house employees can easily go to the Gaj, but they're probably not going to want to wear their best outfit, and would probably be embarrassed if their noble found out.

[RogueGunslinger]

It doesn't have to be the worst or the best. It's on the main road and part of the commons, so it's bound to get tons of traffic. Its smelly, dirty, often violent with brawls. That doesn't mean it's the shities place, or the best sports place, or anything really. It is what it is. And there probably 5 other taverns a lot like it in a city as big as Allanak.

[ibusoe]

My interpretation of what the Gaj is doesn't match up with yours.  The Gaj and the Gladiator isn't a dive bar in my mind, it's the Zalanthian equivalent of a sports bar (with gladiator games being the sport).  It just so happens that the Zalanthian equivalent of a sports bar, is about what you'd expect from the shittiest dive bar in the real world.  A Zalanthian dive bar can be found in the 'rinth.

Noble and merchant house employees can easily go to the Gaj, but they're probably not going to want to wear their best outfit, and would probably be embarrassed if their noble found out.

and

It doesn't have to be the worst or the best. It's on the main road and part of the commons, so it's bound to get tons of traffic. Its smelly, dirty, often violent with brawls. That doesn't mean it's the shities place, or the best sports place, or anything really. It is what it is. And there probably 5 other taverns a lot like it in a city as big as Allanak.

Hey, those are both good points.  I've never looked at it that way.  There I go, bringing my real life bias of shitty urban bars to Zalanthas, which has it's own style of shitty urban bars, LOL.  Thanks for taking the time to explain it.

[whitt]

True dive bars are in the Rinth.

[Armaddict]

I wasn't making a statement about anyone's play.

I was referring to the documentation that sets the culture for the two cities.

Because of the history surrounding the occupation the nobility of the North were closer to the commoners than the nobility of Allanak are.

From a playability standpoint, it made interaction between the sponsored roles and the common folk easier to do.

I didn't mean to insinuate it that way.  It should be noted that when I say 'recently' I'm kind of on a different time scale, I'm not pointing out anyone actually 'recent'.  However, I think that when Trader's was closed, people started making a conscious effort to turn the Red's into the new Trader's, which just...isn't accurate, and as there have been numerous posts pointing out why.

It doesn't have to be the worst or the best. It's on the main road and part of the commons, so it's bound to get tons of traffic. Its smelly, dirty, often violent with brawls. That doesn't mean it's the shities place, or the best sports place, or anything really. It is what it is. And there probably 5 other taverns a lot like it in a city as big as Allanak.

I pretty much think of it that way.  It's not that it's the cleanest or dirtiest.  It's dirty, as the scripting lets us know.  But it's also the city's first stop for travelers, the sports bar (as wizturbo said), and a decent-middle-class housing building.  It's just rowdy, is all.  I dislike the idea that someone in nice clothes shouldn't be there altogether, but I do think they'd have to do so with the same mind as a breed going into the Red's.  It's not -against the rule-, it's just that you're in a position where things -could- turn out to be not in your favor just by virtue of the patronage.

In the aide's case, it's spilled clothing, and a rough and gruff crowd who don't really care that you're a templar/noble's aide, or a merchant house crafter, or any of that.  They want in your pants, they're drunk and you being snotty might get you hit, etc.

[In Dreams]

I know the Gaj is supposed to be filthy and awful, but really, it's the most accessible place to meet and interact with other PCs in the game. That's a really great thing.

We really don't need it to be more restrictive or punishing to hang out in. Instead, yes, let's work on making Red's (and nobles, and Atrium types) more accessible.

[Delirium]

I think that people misunderstand the Gaj.  The Gaj is essentially the shittiest bar in the Commons Quarter, which isn't a great neighborhood to begin with.  Most of the players probably have a misunderstanding about what a "Dive Bar" is.

My interpretation of what the Gaj is doesn't match up with yours.  The Gaj and the Gladiator isn't a dive bar in my mind, it's the Zalanthian equivalent of a sports bar (with gladiator games being the sport).  It just so happens that the Zalanthian equivalent of a sports bar, is about what you'd expect from the shittiest dive bar in the real world.  A Zalanthian dive bar can be found in the 'rinth.

Noble and merchant house employees can easily go to the Gaj, but they're probably not going to want to wear their best outfit, and would probably be embarrassed if their noble found out.

Everything about this.

Treating the Gaj as the equivalent of a 'rinth style dive bar means you really aren't paying attention to context within the gameworld. Or room descriptions.

[Inks]

The proximity to the gates and stables means it would be frequented largely by travellers, miners and merchants, as well as gmh employees due to people wanting to have a drink after a hard day's walk /ride and picking the closest bar, and merchants wanting to trade with said people.

It isn't the sort of place I see aides etc going to unless they are hipsters that enjoy irony. That being said players can play pcs however they want as long as it fits the gameworld. I would like a chance for vomit stains on cloaks etc though as long as it was really rare. Hilarious.

[Armaddict]

The proximity to the gates and stables means it would be frequented largely by travellers, miners and merchants, as well as gmh employees due to people wanting to have a drink after a hard day's walk /ride and picking the closest bar, and merchants wanting to trade with said people.

It isn't the sort of place I see aides etc going to unless they are hipsters that enjoy irony. That being said players can play pcs however they want as long as it fits the gameworld. I would like a chance for vomit stains on cloaks etc though as long as it was really rare. Hilarious.

I think that's...exactly where aides should be.  They are literally paid to mingle with these people so their Lord or Templar don't have to.