Game Cultural Source Material

[ibusoe]

Armageddon has been based in part on Darksun, although we all like to think that by this point most of the copyright is original at this point.  Inspired might be the better word.  The game has become a work of art in it's own right.

Darksun was always the Fantasy Game for people who like science fiction.  A large part of this appeal was because Darksun turned Tolkien on it's head.  In some ways Darksun was anti-Tolkien. 

As far as cultural inspiration, would players prefer to live in a world mostly inspired by Science Fiction, or a world with strong (yet still comparatively loose) associations from an anachronistic set of cultural references? 

I'm assuming that most players will prefer a more science-fictionesque setting.  I think for a lot of players Armageddon represents a form of escape, and the more divergent Zalanthas is from planet earth, the better. 

Thoughts?  Please keep it civil, I understand that this is a hot button issue for some people but remember that we're all adults, except for the teenagers, and then they're aspiring adults.

[Delirium]

I don't see why weird fantasy and reverse tropes are sci-fi.

Armageddon is a grimdark desert fantasy with terrifying magic and low tech, sci-fi is definitely not low tech.

[Erythil]

I thought spelljammer was the fantasy game for people who like science fiction!

[Seeker]

Armageddon is a grimdark desert fantasy with terrifying magic and low tech

Nice. 

Armageddon at its best relies very little on strict historic precedent.  It does well by building on the harsh lessons of history, however. (eg. an understanding of the corrosive nature of power or the unavoidable fallibility of the very finest efforts of individuals and groups).

An example might be to take a the decline of the meso-american Aztecs, and instead of copying their technology, specific mythology or artifacts, just to draw into the game the horrors that were revealed during their society's collapse and slip those into a newly imagined fantasy culture going through a similar decline.  Then let the PCs in to watch, encourage, seek to profit from or be destroyed by the blood-letting madness.  Welcome to Armageddon.


Seeker

[Inks]

Yeah, change sci fi to grimdark fantasy, please.

[musashi]

I'm sorry. Maybe I'm missing something, or something happened while I was taking a break from the game but ... What?

Could you elaborate? I have literally no idea what the meaning of the original post was.

[Patuk]

Study enough history, and you will view earth as a dystopic wasteland.

[Desertman]

I'm sorry. Maybe I'm missing something, or something happened while I was taking a break from the game but ... What?

Could you elaborate? I have literally no idea what the meaning of the original post was.

I'm so glad this wasn't only me.

[Malken]

Armageddon is based on the Gorean fiction, not Darksun.

[ibusoe]

I'm sorry. Maybe I'm missing something, or something happened while I was taking a break from the game but ... What?

Could you elaborate? I have literally no idea what the meaning of the original post was.

Mostly I'm trying to get ideas for characters.  Your mileage may vary.


Edit: Clarity

[Beethoven]

I think that people who like Armageddon also like Star Wars or Mad Max for different reasons than because Star Wars and Mad Max are sci-fi. The cross-appeal, I would think, would be the "western" and "frontier" elements.

EDIT: Also, I feel like you are kind of accusing people of being too low-brow for you...ouch, I guess?

[BadSkeelz]

I'm too low-brow to understand what the fuck ibusoe is talking about 90% of the time they post.

[Desertman]

I'm sorry. Maybe I'm missing something, or something happened while I was taking a break from the game but ... What?

Could you elaborate? I have literally no idea what the meaning of the original post was.

Armageddon was once described as being half Dune and half Dark-Sun.  In my opinion, it's never been half Dune, but that's not what we're talking about.  

What is this thread?  In my opinion it's a place for my friends to hang out and post ideas about fantasy role-playing games.  

Obviously, I'm attempting to get something else out of it.  I'm shifting phases in terms of what I want to achieve in the game.  When I first started playing Arm, I first tried playing characters that *I* wanted to play.  Perhaps this was a logical point of departure.  Over time, I shifted to try playing characters that the staff wanted me to play, so that I could get karma.  It worked and I am happy with the results.  8/10, would redo.

Now I'm trying to play characters that I think *you* guys would want me to play.  I used to have a fairly popular blog, and I'm very confident in my writing chops.  I want to make hits and crowd-pleasers at this point.  But for quite a while I was operating under a misconception of what you guys actually want.  

You want slasher fiction.

And you know what?  That's easy for me.  All this time, I was trying to produce really artsy stuff when you guys want Tarantino.  I can do Tarantino standing on my head.  That sets the bar REALLY low for me.  Easy, easy stuff.  My operational goal is to double the amount of kudos that I've gotten over the next six months, compared to the last six months.  

So how, you might wonder, does that relate to the above points?  It doesn't really.  Those were providing background.  As a a point of strategic advice, don't bother disagreeing with background.  In a manner of speaking, you can't disagree with background, and it is unwise to waste energy doing so.  

The poll was the actual point, and this was where you were meant to focus.  Look at the poll.  What I'm asking you kids to decide is, would you rather that I be playing historical sorts of characters generally speaking, like Ghengis Kahn or Leonardo DaVinci or Stefan of Moldavia, or would you rather I play Darth Vader, Baron Harkonnen or Jaba the Hut.  Those are your two choices.  I don't mind either, it's just for years I was operating under the idea (possibly a misconception) that you guys would want realistic characters, when what I think you guys would actually want is like Tank Girl mixed with Mad Max: Fury Road.  I honestly had no idea that you guys would like Fury Road.  

The results of the poll will confirm this.  

But I couldn't really phrase all of this that way.  The staff don't really like self-indulgent posts, so I had to phrase things in a way that would be of general appeal.  Perhaps too general, in this case.  In my opinion people are better off if we take each other at face value and say what we really mean.  

Play what you think is fun.

[Rathustra]

Dark Sun is great because it throws out tired and abused European fantasy elements or turns them on their heads. Here's what Wikipedia has to say:

The original designers chose to drop the standard feudalistic backdrop of its contemporaries such as Greyhawk or the Forgotten Realms in favor of a gritty composite of dark fantasy, planetary romance, and the Dying Earth subgenre.[1][2][4][5] Rather than creating another pseudo-medieval,[1] Tolkienesque setting, Dark Sun's designers created a savage, magic-ravaged desert world where resources, such as metal and water, are scarce and survival is a daily struggle.

Beyond this though I think Dark Sun benefited from casting its collection of city states and factions from non-European cultures (with Balic's greco-roman slant being the exception). It also heavily drew upon elements of the 'sword and sorcery' genre of fantasy fiction of which Robert E. Howard's Conan is the best known example.

Basically all these elements direct what I seek to add to the game as a member of staff. I still hew as close to the feel of Dark Sun as I can within Armageddon's alternate setting as I think it offers something not available elsewhere.

If I had to list my personal inspirations when building, staffing and playing it'd be a mess of Conan, Dark Sun, Lovecraft and Science Fiction/Fantasy.

[musashi]

So you'd like to know what other people want to see you play?

Ok. I personally like to see more flavor roles that are hard to guild sniff. One of my favorite characters was a barber in Tuluk. He sat outside the Sanctuary tavern and offered people hair cuts when they passed through. And while he gave you a hair cut, he would ask you typical barber stuff. Where are you from? How's your family? Etc.

He may have been a secret nilazi mindbender sorcerer undead were-vampire ... or maybe he was guild pickpocket. I have no idea. But it was really fun to role play with him and develop your character's personal history by having to answer all these questions he would hit you with as he gave you a trim.

[Barzalene]

So you'd like to know what other people want to see you play?

Ok. I personally like to see more flavor roles that are hard to guild sniff. One of my favorite characters was a barber in Tuluk. He sat outside the Sanctuary tavern and offered people hair cuts when they passed through. And while he gave you a hair cut, he would ask you typical barber stuff. Where are you from? How's your family? Etc.

He may have been a secret nilazi mindbender sorcerer undead were-vampire ... or maybe he was guild pickpocket. I have no idea. But it was really fun to role play with him and develop your character's personal history by having to answer all these questions he would hit you with as he gave you a trim.

I wish I'd thought of that. That's so awesome.

[ibusoe]

I think that people who like Armageddon also like Star Wars or Mad Max for different reasons than because Star Wars and Mad Max are sci-fi. The cross-appeal, I would think, would be the "western" and "frontier" elements.

EDIT: Also, I feel like you are kind of accusing people of being too low-brow for you...ouch, I guess?

Maybe, but is that what friendship is about?  To me a friend is someone that you enjoy hanging out with, whom is there for you.
...
Honestly, I think things have gotten better.  When I was a lad, one of my favorite shows was the A-Team.  I think that shows like Breaking Bad compare favorably to the A-Team.  Television has gotten better.  The public wants art that will make them think.  People tend to forget that Shakespere, currently hailed as a triumph of western literature, was in his own day a pop artist who wrote hits that appealed to the common folk.  That his work typically poked fun of the ruling class was no accident.  In Hamlet or MacBeth one can easily see Batman.  
But none of this answers the question, what would my fellow players want me to play?  It's a Byn Sergeant, isn't it.  I think that's what people expect me to be doing.  

EDIT: clarity

[Eurynomos]

Dark Sun is great because it throws out tired and abused European fantasy elements or turns them on their heads. Here's what Wikipedia has to say:

The original designers chose to drop the standard feudalistic backdrop of its contemporaries such as Greyhawk or the Forgotten Realms in favor of a gritty composite of dark fantasy, planetary romance, and the Dying Earth subgenre.[1][2][4][5] Rather than creating another pseudo-medieval,[1] Tolkienesque setting, Dark Sun's designers created a savage, magic-ravaged desert world where resources, such as metal and water, are scarce and survival is a daily struggle.

Beyond this though I think Dark Sun benefited from casting its collection of city states and factions from non-European cultures (with Balic's greco-roman slant being the exception). It also heavily drew upon elements of the 'sword and sorcery' genre of fantasy fiction of which Robert E. Howard's Conan is the best known example.

Basically all these elements direct what I seek to add to the game as a member of staff. I still hew as close to the feel of Dark Sun as I can within Armageddon's alternate setting as I think it offers something not available elsewhere.

If I had to list my personal inspirations when building, staffing and playing it'd be a mess of Conan, Dark Sun, Lovecraft and Science Fiction/Fantasy.

A heavy influence for me personally as well is Jack Vance's "Dying Earth", both the short stories and the novels Cugel the Clever, etc. There are desolate dark moments throughout, especially following Cugel who is the epitome of 'anti-hero', that remind me utterly of Zalanthas and the desolation I (As a Storyteller) try to help reinforce. Magick is not only rare, but it's nearly impossible for its practitioners to remember more than a handful of spells, needing to inscribe them on their arms or just have a damn good memory, for mistaking one syllable might mean the difference between life and death. It is a place full of Deodands, and monsters that are relics of an era of science that preceded an era of fantastical magick. I find much inspiration in the series for the dearth of magic on Zalanthas, for the rarity of metal, and for the endless wasteland.


The phrase 'There are no free lunches on Zalanthas' really should be 'Some people get free lunches. They are better than you. Enjoy your poop.'

[Eurynomos]

But none of this answers the question, what would my fellow players want me to play?  It's a Byn Sergeant, isn't it.  I think that's what people expect me to be doing.

Just read the last sentence, go for it.