Transsexuals on Zalanthas

[Revenant]

I feel like with the lack of socialized and societal division between male and female, you'd have a mostly agender society. Which would fit well with polyamory and nonnuclear families and having crowded hovels of starving people. Girls can kick as much ass as boys, and boys can be pretty kept toys just as easily as the other way around. Since there's no gender roles, one can then infer that you can like any number of things, and that doesn't make you wanting to be a man, or a woman, for that matter, outside the genitals/impregnating, maybe wishing to look more like a guy/girl physically (ie breasts or lack thereof/what-have-you). But with a lack of gender-roles, it'd be really difficult to be transgender. After all, sex and gender are not the same, and while there are definitely different -sexes- in Zalanthas, the lack of gender roles makes it hard for me to picture -genders- that are distinct outside maybe odd tribal cultures, and the former lirathan/jihaen templarate orders.

I agree with your post, but I've seen evidence that other players, just don't get it. I won't mention specifics, but it's why I've idea'd a gender helpfile on multiple occassions.

[The Silence of the Erdlus]

There should definitely be a gender helpfile. I wish I lived in a world where gender didn't matter, but I can pretend in the game at least.

[Revenant]

I don't know if you've ever sufficiently pissed off a girl IRL, but they can and will kick your shit in, possibly much worse than a guy would. For that matter, so can a guy in a dress.

EDIT: But playing this game it seems like, sometimes, people don't have a bit of respect for your character if you display feminine traits. I tried playing a guy in a skirt once, it ended with him being an ex-trooper, sinister, wicked, twisted, Nilaz-worshipping son of a bitch, despite having started out a pacifist. I did this because a badass warrior I had in the Byn was ordered that he wasn't allowed to giggle, to see HOW people really reacted. Most? Just fine, it's the few problem cases and the initial shock that some display that's like, what, are you serious?

[bcw81]

I had a male character wear a dress once. Every female character (save one) was snickering about it and making snide comments about boobs (it wasn't a dress with cleavage either). The male characters kind of just blinked for a bit, then ignored it. I was really disappointed with almost everyone's reaction towards it.

[bardlyone]

I had a male character wear a dress once. Every female character (save one) was snickering about it and making snide comments about boobs (it wasn't a dress with cleavage either). The male characters kind of just blinked for a bit, then ignored it. I was really disappointed with almost everyone's reaction towards it.

That's a shame. I dislike that people are so socialized toward specific gender roles in real life. I think it makes it difficult for a lot of players to carry forth IC without attributing social expectations and connotations picked up in day to day life as a player, without it crossing over to how their characters both act, and react, to anything that blurs the line or crosses it. One day, though, that's the dream. People will just understand they're consciousness in sacks of skin and it doesn't make a damn what the genitals on yours say, and should in no way create a stigma against liking or disliking certain things, or avoiding/encouraging behaviors, etc. I think pretty much anyone will struggle with it at some point, just -because- of how large a role gendered advertising and socializing plays in our lives as players. Usually I treat jarringly OOC reactions as being like a joke I don't get and move on.

[Kismetic]

I think you're just baiting with that move, though, bcw.  This isn't Star Trek, where everyone wears generic jumpsuits.  Armageddon has its own fashion, and I want to assume when an item is labeled as a "dress" that it is somehow designed to tailor to the female figure, and though figures on Zalanthas can vary widely between genders, secondary sex traits still appear to be commonly described on characters and applied in fashion.

So as much as I'd like to say "nice dress" and go about my day, I'd be unable to not feel a little jarred by your being cute with a concept that is 'in the meta'.

[MeTekillot]

Retroactively intrpduce mpreg. Problem solved.

[flurry]

I had a male character wear a dress once. Every female character (save one) was snickering about it and making snide comments about boobs (it wasn't a dress with cleavage either). The male characters kind of just blinked for a bit, then ignored it. I was really disappointed with almost everyone's reaction towards it.

The thing is, nothing in the docs addresses this one way or another, so people just make their own judgement calls. Personally I don't think men and women in Zalanthas dress the same, but I do think it's equally valid to think that they do.    'No sexism' is open to a lot of different reasonable interpretations.

[BadSkeelz]

There are no genders or sexes in Zalanthas, beyond what kind of parts you like to rub on your parts.

There are only those who wear cloth, and those who wear armor.

[EvilRoeSlade]

There are no genders or sexes in Zalanthas, beyond what kind of parts you like to rub on your parts.

There are only those who wear cloth, and those who wear armor.

So men don't have more facial hair than women?
There's no difference in facial structure, women's aren't rounder and softer around the edges?
They don't have more body hair with a coarser consistency?
A woman's hips aren't wider than a mans?
A man's shoulders don't tend to be wider?
Their skin is the same level of coarseness?
Men are just as likely to have big, bubbly butts?

If you want to argue that, then Zalanthans really shouldn't be called humans anymore because they don't resemble us at all.

[BadSkeelz]

You're all just bodies to be arranged on my screen.

[Case]

One time, a certain gypsy couldn't figure out how to seduce Lyvren. After being turned down a few times, he thought he'd change tack.

He put on a dress, heels and white face makeup and tried his luck. Turns out Lyvren really liked guys who dress in dresses and heels

Favourite IG seduction ever.

[Case]

Also I'm way disappointed there'd be any weirdness around men or women wearing any clothing IG, dresses, heels, whatever. Seen commoners and nobles and templars all do it. Never thought it weird and always treated it as normal.

[musashi]

Gender roles are rooted in biology brought on by our sexual diamorphism ... so I can't even blame people for letting such a strong part of our own hard wiring creep into the game.

It's like how being an individual, instead of part of a collective hive mind ... is what makes it so difficult to play mantis.

The lack of sexual diamorphism in Armageddon is ... alien ... to us. It's difficult to remember that and counterbalance it.

[bardlyone]

No, they're actually rooted in society. That is why in some societies, you see three or five different genders, all with different roles. It's not universally just 'male and female'. That is a society based thing.

[EvilRoeSlade]

No, they're actually rooted in society. That is why in some societies, you see three or five different genders, all with different roles. It's not universally just 'male and female'. That is a society based thing.

Yes, this is correct. If there was a gender doc, I'd like to see an inclusion of various fantasy transgender identities as well, rather than just a nonsensical statement that "everyone's the same genderless clone of each other."

[flurry]

The lack of sexual diamorphism in Armageddon is ... alien ... to us.

Probably because no documentation suggests any such thing.

[Jingo]

Gender roles are rooted in biology brought on by our sexual diamorphism ... so I can't even blame people for letting such a strong part of our own hard wiring creep into the game.

Everything you think you know about gender is a fiction that you were taught from childhood. And the reaction you have is a not a biological one, but instead cognitive dissonance based on what you think is the appropriate performance for a gender.

[musashi]

Gender roles are rooted in biology brought on by our sexual diamorphism ... so I can't even blame people for letting such a strong part of our own hard wiring creep into the game.

Everything you think you know about gender is a fiction that you were taught from childhood. And the reaction you have is a not a biological one, but instead cognitive dissonance based on what you think is the appropriate performance for a gender.

It's ... really not. At all. But going into a discussion about certain strains of progressive political ideology vs. scientific studies on gender roles in animals as relating to their biological sexual traits is perhaps beyond the purview of this thread.

The lack of sexual diamorphism in Armageddon is ... alien ... to us.

Probably because no documentation suggests any such thing.

A staffer said as much in this thread. Hang on I'll grab it.

There you go.

~ The selection of male or female at character creation determines your character's presentation. It codedly results in assigning your character's pronouns and what other players will assume your character's sex is at a glance. It is not tied to anything physiological or psychological about your character - you are free to play your character as you wish. This is in line with our policy of zero sexual dimorphism in our currently playable races.

[musashi]

This is what happens when you try to take a cisgendered boy, cut his penis off, and lie to him that he's a girl from birth onwards.

I assume the same to hold true for girls though thankfully we haven't had the moral misfortune of torturing another human being that way again after the first time the nature vs nurture debate on this issue was tested on a flesh and blood person.

This has nothing to do with transgendered people. I've got nothing against someone who identifies that way. This is just a refutation of the assertion that genders are a societal construct.

[bcw81]

I think you're just baiting with that move, though, bcw.  This isn't Star Trek, where everyone wears generic jumpsuits.

100% Honesty. I was entirely baiting with it. The females were talking about dresses and said "Oh, but -you- should buy a dress!" and I was like "Lolk" and then they bought it for me. Already being do deep in the situation, I just went with it and baited the hell out of people.

Emoted the shit out of that dress.

[Revenant]

This is some shit. I can smell the middle school locker-room from here.

[Revenant]

Also, did you guys just overturn Sanvean's doctrine, if you did, I don't think that wise.

[musashi]

What is Sanvean's doctrine?

[Beethoven]

I don't want to argue with a staff member's decree, but I do believe that zero sexual dimorphism would suggest that female Zalanthans do not have breasts or that male Zalanthans also have breasts, which is clearly not true based on many IG items and factors and all that. I do not think he quite meant zero sexual dimorphism. Also, as flurry pointed out, the code does differentiate between male and female voices, so there is at least that, despite Dman's efforts to discount it.