The 9 Benefits of Encouraging Spice Addiction

[Clearsighted]

There's pretty much no reason why anyone in the game should ever get addicted to spice. It's supposed to be this prevalent drug that is so dangerous and addictive, that even Allanak bans it. It is supposed to have this incredible allure. But it simply isn't the case in game. Even someone that RPs as enjoying spice, can smoke it all they want socially, (more or less), without risking addiction.

Essentially, I think that at high enough levels of spice addiction, characters should acquire a mild form of the weakest psionic abilities. Namely, the ability to perceive some 'thinks' and 'feels' from those that are in the room with them.

I think spice needs a mild coded incentive for people to get over-dependent on, and to make it a good coin-sink.  It would have the beneficial side effect of helping out the economy.

Benefits:

1. There are a lot of amazing 'thinks' and 'feels' that most PCs never get to see.

2. It would only work on those you're in a room with, and only while you're on spice.

3. Everybody in Allanak already possesses low-grade psionic ability. It makes perfect sense for some drugs to temporarily heighten it.

4. It would give wealthy PCs something to spend their sids on, and give other PCs a better incentive to go broke trying to support the habit.

5. Since Allanak is now the major city, and there is no spice allowed in Allanak, it would create more RP for militia and smugglers.

6. Spice addiction is dangerous, and there'll be more RP surrounding it. Such as nobles who can afford to indulge.

7. I think it is characterful, and creates a bit of a gap between the haves and have-nots. A noble/house agent/templar etc can more likely get away with spice addiction, whereas some rich indy can't.

8. Might 'inject' some more life into the 'rinth as well.

9. It wouldn't be overpowering, but at the same time, I think the ability to hear thoughts/feels while spice addicted and high, would be enough of an allure for the novelty of the experience to encourage a lot of people to both ICly and OOCly want to partake in it.

PERSONAL REQUEST: Please don't regale us with how your poor rinthi or decadent noble didn't need any coded incentive to RP out spice addiction. Good for you. What I want to do is make it more meaningful and attractive to the majority of players.

[Synthesis]

Spice already has positive effects.  Withdrawal already has negative effects.  It's already a good coin-sink, if you're not foraging your own.

[Clearsighted]

Spice already has positive effects.  Withdrawal already has negative effects.  It's already a good coin-sink, if you're not foraging your own.

1) Spice's current positive effects do NOT encourage addiction. They are simply temporary stat increases and a few obscure coded things. You can get all the stat boosts you want from spice, when you need them, without being addicted.

2) This isn't about Spice's negative withdrawal effects. Although, I'll note that the penalty of spice addiction is crippling far past the benefit of taking spice. There's literally no reason to get spice addicted and to suffer the crippling effects.

I must say that I am disappointed by your rush to immediately jump to the contrary position. Because my post isn't even about spice effects. It's about Spice Addiction and giving people a reason to become Spice Addicted.

The positives you referenced have nothing to do with Spice Addiction, and can be fully realized without being addicted. A mild ability to sense feels or thinks in a room, is I think, a worthy side-effect of going to the trouble of becoming addicted, given the crippling effects of withdrawal.

[Synthesis]

If you decide you permanently want the positives without waiting for the negatives to wear off, you're addicted.  That's the incentive for addiction.

[Clearsighted]

If you decide you permanently want the positives without waiting for the negatives to wear off, you're addicted.  That's the incentive for addiction.

You have no idea what you're talking about. This isn't about the immediate effects of any particular spice. And your 'incentive' for addiction is beyond stupid. It's borderline insulting to anyone that knows anything about the way spice works.

Nobody in their right mind thinks or behaves that way, unless they're screwing themselves over on purpose. You can get all the benefits you like out of stat spice, when you need it, without risking addiction.

Beyond that, what you're referencing, only applies to a small handful of spices that give any coded stat boost at all, like war spice, etc. Most spices don't give a stat effect.

I'll say it for the last time. I'm referencing specifically the state of Spice Addiction. And giving it a real, coded benefit. Not the made-up-on-the-spot BS Synthesis reason, that nobody would actually think is a good reason.

I've registered your incoherent, condescending disagreement. Thanks!

[valeria]

The amount of "consequences-less" spices are a lot less prevalent than the op would lead you to believe.  Spice addiction sucks.  And it should imo. I wouldn't approve of adding benefits to any addiction.

[Synthesis]

Uh, whatever, man.

^That was condescending.

Most people don't regularly use spice because:

a) piss-poor stats are really difficult to roll, with stat-prioritizing, reroll, and reroll undo
b) it's expensive, and you have to KEEP GRINDING THAT GRIND if you want to keep using it
c) the benefits aren't that great unless you're snorting like a large worth all at once (with the exception of one type, granted)
d) it's a pain in the ass to get it and keep it if you live in Allanak
e) even if you can get it and keep it in Allanak, you constantly run the risk of being arrested or fined for having it

People will always min-max it.  Your idea simply alters the min-maxing equation so that tavern-sitters have a reason to use it...which is maybe a good idea for a new type of spice, but not to alter all types.

That being said...the only time I ever regularly use it is when I have a PC with a shitload of 'sid to blow.  The only time I -regularly- used it was with a city-elf with poor strength, because otherwise I couldn't barely graze my way out of a paper bag.

[Clearsighted]

The amount of "consequences-less" spices are a lot less prevalent than the op would lead you to believe.  Spice addiction sucks.  And it should imo. I wouldn't approve of adding benefits to any addiction.

I have never posted anything about spice addiction not sucking. Spice addiction does suck. It sucks so badly that there is zero reason whatsoever for anyone to ever become spice addicted without doing so to deliberately sabotage their character.

I simply don't like the the status quo where a drug which is supposed to be hyper-addictive and alluring, to the point of retaining such a dangerous hold over the VNPC population that Allanak considers its a serious death-penalty threat, should be so easily ignored by the PCs.

Giving some mild, RP-ish incentive, like sensing thinks or feels, to the spice addicted, would seem to give both a flavorful reason to seek it out, and a good reason why the Militia might want to crack down on it.

Uh, whatever, man.

^That was condescending.

Most people don't regularly use spice because:

a) piss-poor stats are really difficult to roll, with stat-prioritizing, reroll, and reroll undo
b) it's expensive, and you have to KEEP GRINDING THAT GRIND if you want to keep using it
c) the benefits aren't that great unless you're snorting like a large worth all at once (with the exception of one type, granted)
d) it's a pain in the ass to get it and keep it if you live in Allanak
e) even if you can get it and keep it in Allanak, you constantly run the risk of being arrested or fined for having it

People will always min-max it.  Your idea simply alters the min-maxing equation so that tavern-sitters have a reason to use it...which is maybe a good idea for a new type of spice, but not to alter all types.

That being said...the only time I ever regularly use it is when I have a PC with a shitload of 'sid to blow.  The only time I -regularly- used it was with a city-elf with poor strength, because otherwise I couldn't barely graze my way out of a paper bag.

See. This is a constructive post. Thanks, Synthesis. I agree on several of these points, and it's why I posted.

[wizturbo]

It's a roleplaying game...  The benefits of spice addiction are more interesting roleplaying situations.

If you need a tangible benefit, I guarantee you a well played addict is going to get staff attention, which means you might score some karma...  /shrug

[Alesan]

Why aren't there more vices in general? Allanak just has booze, unless people are willing to risk the consequences of law breaking. I'm all for more ways to spend all that sid you people are always complaining about.

Considering most of the player population is concentrated in Allanak, I'd think there'd be other things people are making habits of if they can't have spice.

[Synthesis]

shoot up with scorpions and trip balls in the gaj

[Alesan]

That is an option. An extreme option, but an option nonetheless.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

I really like this idea. Psionics are outlawed so severely that Allanak's ban on spice would make far more sense, given the new 'powers' of spice addicts, while Tuluk may have tolerated it given their own leaders' rumored gifts being heightened.

It makes IC sense. It offers OOC fun. I'm so for it.

[Alesan]

Also, I just suddenly thought of the Soy Sauce, for anyone who's read a certain book.

[Drayab]

I kind of like the current level of high-fantasy elements like psionics and magic in the game. They exist, but you rarely encounter them if you're a mundane (not counting contact and barrier). So, I am kind of 'meh' about adding psionic enhancements to what spice does for you.

In my estimation, I think the benefits of spice are pretty good right now, but the problem is that the risks of possessing it are just too great for anybody that intends on going to Allanak. On the one hand, I know that if I were caught by a PC templar, I could probably get out of it alive with sufficient groveling and bribing, but I like my character and ultimately they can decide to kill me if they want to. I'd rather not give them a reason. I don't like being at the mercy of PC capriciousness. And of course with the NPC enforcers, I might just get dog-piled, no questions asked if I forget to dump the stash before walking in the gates.

Does the ban on spice really add that much to the game? Personally, I'd like to see the ban gone. I bet you'd see more spice usage in its place. Spice addicts were still rare in the north, but I came across them occasionally. I bet the south would have even more spice addicts because the south has a more gritty atmosphere, is more conducive to those types of roles.

Edit: After thinking about it for a few minutes, it might be enough to just do away with the NPC shakedown at the gate and leave the illegality in place as a ripe target for PC enforcers to impose fines/bribes.

[John]

If you make spice illegal then you remove yet another avenue for there to be criminals in the game. We saw it with Tuluk where thievery, assassinations and spice were all legal.

I would rather see the severity of spice reduced. Rather than having NPCs insta-kill you, why not just have them confiscate it instead? Corruption is suppose to be rampant, what can be more corrupt than taking spice for being illegal and then keeping it for your own personal use (or to sell it to criminals?)

[valeria]

The thing is, you already get a benefit from spice addiction. You get whatever benefit is that your spice gives you... as long as you keep using it. My only beef with spice addiction as how quickly it ramps up.

[Riev]

The one argument here that I don't think is helpful, is that "addiction is an RP thing" (nothing against you, Turbo). One major issue I've had in the past, is that even though I could smuggle in spice WITHOUT the use of some high-magick situation, and it was cheap, I was told either that "We have all we need, we just smuggle it in on our argosy" (to any staff that say they don't know, thats fine, but back then none of you cared) or "Why would I want to smoke that?".

End of it all, Tho is an RP spice that people equate to weed, but its not very addictive. Warspices can get addictive but most treat them like CERTAIN_NORTHRON_CLAN and use them only when the situation arises. It sounds like Clearsighted is just looking for ways to make the risk vs benefit worthwhile, more than "a 15minute +2 to strength" buff.


For the record, I'm on board for one of the mind-spices to either make people slight empaths (... ehh) or make them THINK they are empaths by giving various echoes of what someone in the room is feeling.

[Synthesis]

End of it all, Tho is an RP spice that people equate to weed, but its not very addictive.

Uh, what?  The addiction code on Thodeliv sucks MASSIVE DONKEY BALLS and will cripple your PC.  Are you trying to say that there isn't any reason (aside from RP) that someone would smoke that much?  I suppose I could agree with that, because I've never seen (or heard of) any overt coded benefit to using it.

Thodeliv is not weed.  It's more like heroin (at least).

[Chettaman]

I just want to say that addiction is easy to explain. But to the addicted, it's just torture. They know exactly why they're doing what they do. Or maybe they don't. Despite that, they're going to do it unless they decide not to. ... but why wouldn't they? No one would know. It wouldn't matter anyway. Right and it's the last time, no doubt. You're not hurting anyone by doing it. And you can handle it. You've handled it before. Just one more time and then I'll go right back to my kids.

Ya know what. I think if spice addiction is a code, it should happen more often.

[Narf]

For the record, I'm on board for one of the mind-spices to either make people slight empaths (... ehh) or make them THINK they are empaths by giving various echoes of what someone in the room is feeling.

This would be fun. Spice giving Discount Bin versions of psychic abilities?

Like reading people's mind through an apprentice/journeyman language filter, empathy that associates emotions to random people in the room rather than their originator, or the ability to randomly pick up way conversation snippets from around the area.

[Clearsighted]

The thing is, you already get a benefit from spice addiction. You get whatever benefit is that your spice gives you... as long as you keep using it. My only beef with spice addiction as how quickly it ramps up.

I really think this argument is a non-starter, and more or less irrelevant to the discussion.

Because what you're describing is not a benefit from spice addiction. It's the benefit of using (some) kinds of spice. Most of which don't give a stat benefit, or any significant benefit at all.

No one in their right mind, unless they were deliberately sabotaging their characters for RP purposes, would use the stat spice so often as to get Spice Addiction from it. Considering the horrible side-effects of withdrawal. One or two anecdotes of desperate, poor strength elves aside.

So your assertion, which is aimed at the current benefits or side-effects of spice, doesn't really have any relation. Because whatever those benefits or side-effects are, they're clearly keeping rates of spice addiction vastly lower among the PC population than the VNPC. Despite the PCs having the most sids to indulge in spice. That makes it feel like something is off. Fundamentally, the OOC status quo is not aligning the game's population with IC expectations.

My idea is aimed at the fact that it's very easy to avoid spice addiction and incredibly beneficial to do so. Despite the fact that it is as dangerous as heroin. What I'd like to see is a flavorful and low-key way to encourage addiction. I think my idea was pretty good. Do you think having Apprentice/Journey think/feel sense while addicted and high on tho, wouldn't be fun or would harm the game?

The alternative, is as turbo suggests, to pretend otherwise in game. But personally, I think that suggestion sucks, when a coded tweak is both relatively easy, more flavorful, and more fun for the majority of people who aren't as good at pretending as turbo.

[RogueGunslinger]

Every time I wanted to make a spicer who was addicted I couldn't, because the type of characters that would do that couldn't afford it, or the illegality of spice would deter them.

So my suggestion is to only make some of the spices illegal, like war spices and Tho. And make use of others just heavily frowned upon.

[whitt]

Do you think having Apprentice/Journey think/feel sense while addicted and high on tho, wouldn't be fun or would harm the game?

I personally think it would harm the game. 

If this works for PCs, it would work for NPCs as well.  Enter the spice-addicted NPCs that are just posted about the Gaj, and they don't get their next dose from Noble/Merchant/Templar until they come back with some juicy tidbit that likely costs a character their status, plot, life.

Players, knowing that their thoughts are now open to interception, stop using thinks unless they want that think known to others.  The characters don't think anyless, the think-code just gets conveniently not used.

Suddenly there is a huge incentive to be spice addicted, you have access to information no one else should and you'll (oddly) be protected because you're an addict instead of being shunned having such a disgusting habit. 

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

If spice had a chance of offering you new permanent skill branches, or permanently increasing stats, or randomly opening temporary magical or psionic abilities, or permenantly raising skill levels, but then carried a need to partake in order to not be crippled, I could see it encouraging addiction.