OMG magicker thread!

[Callisto]

I'm thinking of playing a magicker of some kind.

I was just curious about other peoples experiences with the elemental guilds. Without giving away any IC sensitive information, what was your favorite class? What made it your favorite? Did you play a gemmer or non-gemmer? You know, that kind of thing.

[CindyLou]

I played a rukkian whiran nilazian krathi.

It was cool because I got to talk to Tek and play Kruth with him on alternate Abids.

Plus you gotta love sucking up the earth into the void, setting it on fire, and blowing it over the noble's quarters for shits and giggles.

[Forest Junkie]

I have no "favorite", because it's too hard to pick! =P

For starters...I'd say play a rukkian to just get a "feel" for how a magicker lives. Never played a gemmed one before though, only tribal.

[Anonymous]

I've played Rukkian, Whiran, Suk-Krath and Drovian out of the elementalist guilds.

Drovian is easily my favorite.  Its no fun at the start, but once you really get good its a ton of fun.

Rukkian is a lot more robust than people give it credit for, even at the start, IMHO.

Everyone goes with Whiran for a few reasons, and they are fun, but they were missing a certain oomph for me.

EDIT -

I only played one that was gemmed. Being gemmed means you'll almost certainly be employed.  It also means temple timeouts.  Being non-gemmed and out in the wild was more fun as far as the magic was concerned.  I mean, what's funner, being given a task by some noble, or having to hurry up and cast spell x before that gimpka rat gets in his third hit and kills you?

[Stroker]

I played a Rukkian, it sucked, I stored him. MY advise to you (the most wise and true of all) is to make a psionist, capture hobos, and mess with their heads to make them your slaves.

[Faglore]

capture hobos, and mess with their heads to make them your slaves.

Ah, the true american dream.

[Twilight]

I've played every magick using class with the exception of templar.  I can't say that I have had a favorite elementalist guild, each offers its own unique flavor.  As a first character, I would recommend either Rukkian or Whiran if you are not going to be gemmed, possibly Elkrosan.  For a gemmed character any except Nilazi will work.  I couldn't give you a definative recommendation beyond those, which are based more on my opinion of survivability and ability to make things interesting for yourself of the classes, without a better idea of what you like.  Certain guilds are definately favorites in certain situations or playstyles.

[adgohan]

In my limited experience with magickers I would say a good place to start your first magicker is gemmed. The simplistic reasoning behind this is
A) You've a clear-cut, undisturbed place to practice. (Temples)
B) You've other people that are declared and can help you. (Other Elementalists)

It will also give you an idea of why magickers are hated, you'll see how people role play with or against you accordingly, it's actually a really interesting experience.

It might be tough playing a first or second magicker outside of bounds you know you'll be cool in. Without going too IC, I can recall one I created that got dropped two hours in for casting somewhere I thought I was alone. Things in Zalanthas are not always as they appear, important for non-gemmers to pick up on this.

Then again I've found myself a good friends going back to the core classes after work with magickers, though they're a fun alternative every once and a while.

[Malifaxis]

Faglore:

Ah, the true american dream.

Umm... I know he keeps it under wraps, super secret and everything, but Dirr's Russian, and will probably take psychotic offense at you saying he has an american dream.

On the subject of magickers, Callisto... I've played a Viv, a Krathi, and a 4.5 hour Rukkian.  Vivaduans are hellaciously fun to be honest, especially if you're in the wilds and you're a risk taker.  Nothing quite beats the feeling of being a Krathi either... being unarmed and able to blow things to Hell is quite wicked.  They also get a variety of spells that are not 'blow you up' spells that are amazingly fun.

Unfortunately I can give no input into gemmedness, as I've never been gemmed.

Have fun, whichever way you go, and I hope to hear about your mad exploits ICly someday.

[EvilRoeSlade]

I've played all of the basic magicker types.  HERE IS MY ANALYSIS.

SUN ELEMENTALIST = WARRIOR
STONE ELEMENTALIST = RANGER
WIND ELEMENTALIST = NINJA
WATER ELEMENTALIST = MERCHANT

I'd strongly advise that you don't play a gemmed elementalist in Allanak.  You've played a character that observed the lives of magickers that served a templar, Callisto.  Tell me that they were having fun.  Tell me!

[Callisto]

I wouldn't be playing a gemmer, that's for sure.

There isn't a whole lot of conflict to be had when you're forced to live in one place and can be killed with a couple remote activations of your gem, you know? If I play a magicker, it'd be a magicker, not a temple ornament or house servant on a leash.

I appreciate the replies though, I think I know what I'm going for now.

[FiveDisgruntledMonkeysWit]

It seems like a lot of players hate gemmed magickers. That sounds like a bad thing... Maybe we need to think of something to spice up the role a bit?

Or perhaps people simply aren't being creative with the character concept?

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

Probably the simplist way to appease many and to make the role of a gemmed magicker more condusive to players is to kill the 'remote activation' part, as someone called it. Still make it non-removable, but make someone actually have to hunt the magicker down if they shake state.

[Anonymous]

It seems like a lot of players hate gemmed magickers. That sounds like a bad thing... Maybe we need to think of something to spice up the role a bit?

Or perhaps people simply aren't being creative with the character concept?

For me its not a matter of character concepts but rather a matter of how limited you are by the role.  Everyone is supposed to be afraid of you and treat you as such.  If I then play a happy-go-lucky magicker dude I feel like I am putting a people in a position to possibly go against the norm, something that happens far too often, IMHO.

Then there's the whole matter of being KOS in more than a few areas of the world if you decide that you don't want to be stuck inside Allanak.

It generally ends up being days of repetition and isolation punctuated by sudden 20 minutes of exhilaration when you get to fry someone or at least run from them.

Sure you could make a good character concept, and I have two that would work well for a gemmed magicker, at least I think they would, but in the end the main appeal of this mud for me has always been exploration and being gemmed pretty much nixes that idea for most of the classes I've played.

[Rindan]

It seems like a lot of players hate gemmed magickers. That sounds like a bad thing... Maybe we need to think of something to spice up the role a bit?

Or perhaps people simply aren't being creative with the character concept?

If I could do one thing to make gemmed more fun to play, I would put a hole in the wall bar on the edge of the elementalist quarters and the 'rinth.  It would be a lawful place in Allanak proper, but a few steps away would be the 'rinth.  Few people would visit it due to the fact that it is not only covered in gemmed, but other slimy folks who like to be close to the 'rinth.  Next, I would allow cantrips in this location without fear of a templar's wrath.  If a Krathi gets pissed the torches in the room flair up and no one bats an eye.  If a drovian is in a sulking mood the lights around his table might be set in deep unnatural shadows.  It isn't that you are allowed to cast, it is just a place where gemmed can loosen up on their control.  Thing that come as second nature are allowed.  They would not be technically legal, but no templar would bother to follow up on a report of a magiker doing some minor cantrip.  Normal people would be allowed in, but anyone who gets too mouthy about magikers might find a curse on them that no templar bothers to look into.  Anyone who hucks a knife in might find it turns around and comes back to the thrower before it finds any targets.

The bar would serve two functions.  

First, it would serve as a place for gemmed to conjugate and be magikers.  As a gemmed one of the hardest things to do is find other gemmed.  You are lucky to find just one, and if you do, you probably are not in a place where much talk of your craft would be appropriate.  Simply put, it would allow gemmed to interact with each other in a much more effective way.  You could even put up a board in this tavern for just this tavern.  It could be full of rumors and events that would concern people in this tavern.  People could flesh out together what it –really- means to have that gem stuck around your neck.  It is place to master cantrips and refine the aura that a magiker gives off.  It is a place where being a magiker means more then just being a commoner with a gem around your neck.

The second thing it would do is open up another avenue of interaction for gemmed.  As it stands, if you want interaction you are going to have to deal with a noble or templar trying to scoop you up.  You can't go to the 'rinth as that is asking for a knife in the back.  This tavern would allow not only for a place where there are other gemmed, but also someone who might be looking to hire a gemmed who –isn't- a noble or templar.  In fact, the bar might serve as place where any freak is welcomed and your average Byner or Noble would feel very out of place.  By 'freaks' I mean pretty much anyone that wouldn't feel comfortable sitting in the Barrel.  Half-elves, elves, mutants, gemmed, 'rinthers, criminals, the works.  All would find this nice little hole in the wall on the edge of the elementalist quarters and the 'rinth to be a rather pleasant place.  One freak among others doesn't get too many looks.  Because no one of any reputation would want to step foot into such a place, it would be a place with plenty of shady dealings for magikers and normal criminals alike.  It is a place where if a magiker wants to avoid being scooped up by a noble house or templar, he can go here.  No one is going to go looking for him in this place.  He doesn't have to hide in his temple and never see another PC in his life time if he wants to be something other then a templar or noble tool.  If he wants to work freelance for any scum who will pay, this is the place to look for work.  This is the dark and shady side to being a magiker.  

The barrel is a place for the light and cheerful side.  That is where the subservient magikers go and get picked up by nobles and templars.  They are always quiet.  They often wear some noble house colors or work for a templar.  They are good tempered.  They never speak of dark things or even suggest they have some darker craft.  If it wasn't for the gem on their neck you wouldn't even know they were magikers.  They are glorified tools.  They are decently paid and do not live on the edge of survival.

My dark little tavern is the other side of the bright and cheery world of magikers.  This dark little tavern is where the 'bad things' go on.  This is where thieves and criminals come when they need a magiker.  This is where the magikers ARE thieves and criminals.  They still have their collar, but when the master isn't looking this is where they go to do and plan 'bad things'.  This is a place where the fear of magik is real because these are not the nice house servant magikers and these magikers are not the type to take much abuse from some weak little normal.  Piss off a Krathi here and the torches will flair and his eyes will burn, making it clear that you are not dealing with a meek little commoner with a gem strapped around his neck.  This is a magiker.  It might be collared, but you really don't want to test that collar, especially if the master is not around.  This would be the place where the fear of magikers that should be ingrained into the heart of every commoner comes from.  The dark and smoky tavern of the gemmed, criminals, and freaks has my vote.

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

Rindan, I really like that idea. _I_ might even play a magicker in that case. I think that this is a excellent idea.

I would, perhaps, add another to this: Make a enterance into the magickers' quarter and the 'Rinth both. Have it in a hall where folks outside can't just throw knives in. In short, make it a real little hole in the wall, and not everyone would know where it is. Rindan and I could chat on it if he likes, and we could submit an idea to the IMMs.

This is a great idea, and well presented.

[Tlaloc]

Speaking from personal experience, I'd have to say that I have played and thouroughly enjoyed BOTH gemmed, and ungemmed elementalists. Both have thier advantages and disadvantages...both are relatively separate character concepts. I've had long lived, and very memorable Elementalists who hid thier powers from everyone (and became very powerful indeed, anyway), and also some long lived ones who were gemmed (and also became pretty powerful). Its all in how you play the character, who they are, and what the concept is.

If I could do one thing to make gemmed more fun to play, I would put a hole in the wall bar on the edge of the elementalist quarters and the 'rinth. It would be a lawful place in Allanak proper, but a few steps away would be the 'rinth. Few people would visit it due to the fact that it is not only covered in gemmed, but other slimy folks who like to be close to the 'rinth. Next, I would allow cantrips in this location without fear of a templar’s wrath.

I suggest playing a gemmed Elementalist, and hanging around in the Elementalist quarter some. You might be surprised at the various changes that have been made. Explore, check it out, and have fun.

[Rindan]

Rindan and I could chat on it if he likes, and we could submit an idea to the IMMs.

This is a great idea, and well presented.

I actually already tried a few months back to submit it.  I offered to write up everything from the rooms, to the tables, to the NPCs.  I would still happily do it.  The biggest flaw they saw with the idea they said was that it might have depleted other taverns and spread the player base thinner.  I agreed at the time, but after having played a role that would have been able to make use of such a place longer, I tend to disagree now.  

The biggest reason why I disagree now is that I don't see hordes of gemmed and criminals in the Barrel of the Gaj.  The occasional elf might drop by and on very rare occasion a gemmed might stop in.  There are very few regular patrons that are either gemmed or criminals.  If these few people were to suddenly to stop showing up I don't think anyone would notice.  Further, I think these people would still spend some time in the more respectable part of town.  They would just have another place to go when they are looking for a different type of interaction.  

It isn't like there are no criminals or gemmed in Allanak unless the few that I meet are dying quickly.  They are just very reclusive and keep to isolated places.  If these people are going to be reclusive from the rest of the player base, why not let them be reclusive some place where they can interact and effect the population?  If I decide my character is going to spend most of his time in the elementalist quarter, that is where he is going to be.  If there is a place to socialize in the elementalist quarters that means that at least some of that time will be spent doing something other then sitting in a temple.

I personally think it would do good things for concentrating the player base.  Think of it, you have a group of people that are naturally going to avoid other people.  There is not much reason to drag your poor gemmed ass to the barrel or Gaj unless you want a job.  While you are in the tavern you are going to get very minimal interaction.  You get to be a RP center piece for people to show off how they RP hating you.  You get to have some internal dialogue, but basically you are solo emoting most of the time for the public.  There are just not many reasons to wander into the commons.  Why not offer a place for these people that would normally be alone to go and congregate?  Now instead of having fragmented magikers hiding in temples, clans, and the rare few in a tavern, you have them centered around the elementalist quarters.  Now they can easily walk between their temple and a tavern where they can expect a minimum of interaction.  People will be more likely to leave their temples and stop spam casting if it means that a little interaction is possible.  You draw people out of these solo locations and into a communal location.  It is not exactly public, but it beats them hiding in a temple.

Right now gemmed are an outwardly clean cut group that are generally docile, generally reserved, and in generally the picture of a house servant.  That is not to suggest that there are no exceptions or that such people might not have violent rages that boiling in their thoughts or that in the dark they to not do horrific things.  This is just the outward image of a magiker; calm, non-threatening, docile.  I personally think the reason why people have such a hard time fearing magikers in game is simply because this is the only image they ever see.  I bet even the oldest of players here can't recall more then a handful of examples of gemmed magikers that didn't fit the image of a quiet and reserved person in public.  Gemmed come to this out of pure necessity or die.  Throw a rage in the Barrel and a templar will have you on your knees.  Threaten even a filthy elf with a terrible curse and you are going to get in trouble.  Being a reserved person is absolutely needed in order to be a gemmed and around people.  You can be a maniac in your temple, but around everyone else you need to be the picture of a well trained house servant.

This tavern would have the potential to change this image.  The docile and calm magiker would certainly not vanish.  Such magikers would always be needed by noble houses and would find great employment with the high classes of Allanak as permanent members.  Now though, there would be room for variations in the image of a gemmed magiker.  Not everyone is going to take having a gem strapped to them as a reason to take an oath of silence.  Some people are going to be pissed about it and want to bitch loudly.  Some are going to love their new found power and get their rocks off on flaunting it.  Others might want to discuss all the finer points of their art with others like themselves.  There are going to be a range of personalities and emotions.  These 'others' are not going to be stupid and show their rage or joy in the Barrel.  They are going to go to a place where it is ok to be what they are and where it is ok to break the mold of a docile walking wand.  Right now that place is virtual.  If you want to play a drunkard gemmed who likes being loud and noisy, there is no place where you can go and not get cut down.  You get to be loud in your temple and that is it.  Allow for a tavern in the elementalist quarters and suddenly you have a place where these other personalities can thrive.  You can threaten to blow someone's head off with a fireball and they can threaten to curse your unborn child in a loud shouting match that might raise a few eyebrows, but not many.

With this sudden diversity in gemmed personality there would also be great opportunity to complicate gemmed relationships with high class employers.  If a Templar wants a Krathi for something, instead of plucking him out of the Barrel when he makes his once a month trip down, or snagging him the second he gets his gem, there is now a place to find a Krathi.  Even better, this is a place where a Templar probably doesn't want to go.  The Templar might actually have to send an assistant to enter such an unsavory place.  The dynamics between templar and magiker are also complicated even after the two meet.  No longer is the magiker automatically a docile walking wand.  This magiker could have some other emotions beyond subservience.  That isn't to say that the gemmed is going to pick a fight with a guy who can kill three dozen ways, just that their might be more to the exchange then a simple bow and "Yes, Lord Templar."

Finally, you are creating something cohesive out of a fragmented and chaotic class of PCs.  You are creating the dark and seedy underbelly of Allanak.  Allanak is looking very clean cut these days.  Conflict might be all over the place, but it is political or subtle conflict.  There needs to be a place for the rest of the conflict.  There needs to be a place for the dark things to grow.  Thieves and gemmed can't all come together and talk about their respective professions in the Barrel or the Gaj.  The Barrel is for politics.  The Gaj is for mercenaries and hunters.  This tavern would be for the darker side of Allanak.  This would be a place for all the stuff that slithers around under the silks, jewelry, and templar robes.  This would be the side of Allanak that doesn't care what nobility are doing until one of their representatives throws some 'sid into this underworld to get something done.  If you want to hear rumors of politics, go to the barrel.  If you want to hear rumors of thieve rings, magiker, the elementalist quarters, and all things dark and shady, you come to this hole on the wall.  I think that this is something Allanak is missing and I think that this idea could really fill the void while uniting two fragmented classes into something cohesive that could have an effect on rest of the player base.

[Rindan]

Wowa... someone got a little excited there with the writing.  As you can see, I really really  like the idea of an dark seedy hole on the wall for gemmed, thieves, freaks, and other shady folks.

[Malifaxis]

As you can see, you are NOT alone.

[Callisto]

I love that idea, Rindan.

[Gorobei]

I'm tossing my support for Rindan's idea.  If there was a tavern like this, I'd really like to play a magicker.

[Anonymous]

I like Rindan's idea a lot too, but not with a playerbase that peaks in the 40s most days.

You already have people spread between cities, then you have divisions within those cities ('rinthi/commoner/elf/noble/magicker) and on top of that you have multiple taverns in each location.

If there were fewer taverns, I'd be all for it.  I'm not particularly against it either, but I wonder how much it would get used after the newness died out.

There are 4 taverns I know of in Tuluk, 6 in Allanak/'rinth, 2 in Luir's, and 1 in Red Storm, 1 in the Blackwing outpost.  I think those numbers are way too high already.

[Gorobei]

I agree with CRW, as well.  My next dwarf is burning down the Gaj.

[Callisto]

I like Rindan's idea a lot too, but not with a playerbase that peaks in the 40s most days.

But the thing is, as he pointed out, it wouldn't effect the current taverns. A lot of magickers, freaks, criminals and generally seedy types don't hang around in the main taverns because it isn't the kind of place most of them would be comfortable. It is just going to allow characters that would otherwise spend most of their time solo-RPing to interact in a common area suited for them. If it would do anything, it would boost interaction, not take away from it.

Its not like your noble assistants, your militia, your merchant guards or even mercenary types are going to hang out in a place filled with magickers, mutants and criminals that sits between a place filled with magickal temples and a place of raw chaos and death, so it isn't going to take away from whats established in the current three taverns.

I'm not seeing a down side, its the kind of nitch Allanak needs, in my opinion.

[CindyLou]

Those criminals and "unsavory" magickers do frequent other taverns (in my experience and observation), but they simply behave less unsavory when they're there. Criminals can't commit a crime unless they have a mark, afterall - and what better place to find a mark than in a crowded tavern of the more civilized variety?

On the other hand, while they're -not- in those more civilized places, I would mention that there already exists a place for them. If they're truly as unsavory as we would hope they are, they'd already know about this place, and be hanging out there.

On the OTHER hand (I'm grabbing mansa's hand and tossing it in the pit, meh) , some of these "less civilized" folks have no desire to go to that area, and for good reason. So I agree, the elemental quarter would have much more functionality if there was a place they could go. In fact I even have a location or two in mind.

[Anonymous]

A lot of magickers, freaks, criminals and generally seedy types don't hang around in the main taverns because it isn't the kind of place most of them would be comfortable.

If that is really the case then why was Rindan's idea originally turned down on the basis that it would spread the playerbase thin?  Every gemmed magicker I played went to taverns at nighttime and I can think of a lot of others who did so as well.

I haven't really played heavily in Allanak in about a couple of months so if things have changed I wouldn't know.

[Rindan]

It probably can not be denied that at least a small portion of current residents of the taverns would up and leave to a new one.  My point is that it would not be that bad because in the end net a higher concentration of players and more interaction.

Sit down in the Bard's Barrel (where most of the Allanak population is these days) some time and just count how many people come in and out over the course of a RL hour or two.  Count how many of them would belong in this new tavern.  You are going to count a LOT of house people, a few militia, some merchants, a few militia, and a few Byn.  You might get lucky and catch a Gemmed.  You might get an elf or two who spends only a few moments in there, and you might get some other unsavory folks.  However, these folks will be far and few in-between.  Further, if these folks had business in the Barrel, regardless if it is pick pocketing or meeting someone with a few 'sid to rub together, a new tavern would not have effected their behavior.  The Barrel is still the place to go where the upper and the lower classes can mingle.  It is still where you would look for upper class work and where you go to steal from upper class people.  Take out the unsavory element and the population of the Barrel is not going to even flinch.

Another thing to observe is just how much interaction the few who come by who would belong in this over tavern do.  Generally they come on business and interaction with their business associates or they sit alone doing nothing.  For these people this is a pretty low level of interaction.  They rarely have much in the way of interpersonal relationships because their numbers are so low that they can't find one another.  I don't think that the quality of interaction for these people is particularly high.  They are prohibited for even hinting at their line of work.  They serve mostly as center pieces for other people to RP off of.  A Gemmed sits down and people emote how they react.  That is the extent of the reaction.  The Gemmed can't do much more then take it, as anything else is just going to bring a Templar down on them.

Now, with an alternative tavern of outcasts you can increase their interactions and in increase their interactions with the rest of the MUD.  One of the hardest things to do in Armageddon is get like minded people together and do something.  This is hard simply because if you want to do something that is not commonly accepted in the tavern of choice someone is going to come down on you long before you gather any sort of support.  Starting anything dark and underhanded in Armageddon as a non-house person is very hard.  Criminal activity in general is very hard, and organized criminal activity is even harder.  There is just no good way to meet like minded people and get things moving.

If a place is offered up where gemmed and unsavory folks can meet there suddenly becomes an avenue for another type of interaction opens up.  Gemmed can interact and create various plots and criminals can do the same.  The two might even find themselves combining forces to do things together.  Instead of being RP posts for people to show how much they hate gemmed, they now have a place where they can actually attempt to be movers and shakers on the MUD.  When things start to move other people can't help but be pulled in.  This is why I think it would benefit interaction over all.  You draw together a very fractured group that is rarely seen in public and never seen together into something cohesieve that can interaction with the rest of the MUD.  It is like rounding up all the hunters into a hunting party.  It doesn't steal from interaction, it makes interaction possible.  It makes a cohesive force that can act with the rest of the MUD instead of bunch of splintered individuals waiting to be used.

You might never see a noble, but that doesn't mean that nobility don't have any influence on the game.  This is sort of like nobility in reverse.  True, you might never see some of the people who frequent this seedy tavern, but as soon as they start to make things move you will see the effect.  I would personally rather have things be moving then have them act as RP posts.  Throw this tavern in and there is the potential for an undercurrent in Allanak is a very political place these days.  Everyone is in a house uniform as servants, advisors, or some such.  The dark, gritty, hard edge of Allanak is dull.  This seedy little tavern would be a perfect way to help the darker underside of Allanak thrive, and in the end interact and affect the clean cut political side.

As to the actual numbers of taverns, I think people worry too much.  A tavern is not hurting the player concentration unless people are picking an unpopulated tavern over a populated one.  Tuluk might have six taverns, but only two of them are used.  The tavern in the bards section of town isn't sucking the life out of any other place.  The same goes for the 'rinth taverns.  The 'rinth taverns might be there, but it isn't like they are hurting the patronage of the Barrel.  This Gemmed tavern might come into existence, but I honestly don't think anyone would even notice as the people who would use it either wouldn't be caught dead in the Barrel, visit it only on business, or are so few in number that it doesn't mater.

[Angela Christine]

Bah, just take over the Gaj.  There is hardly anyone but elves and newbies in there these days, PC-wise, and when have the Templars ever given a damn about the Gaj?

AC

[aruna]

First of all, I  really, really like Rindan's idea. I just have some food for thought.

I'm in agreement with how AC feels (in regards to just taking over an existing tavern).

In my opinion, a shady tavern like this would have to come about naturally.  As I see it, a tavern with shady dealings and shady people would have become that way over time (say "taken over"), and not because someone somewhere decided to build a place where the freaks could go. Something like that would probably be incredibly difficult to do, depending on who you are/what your motive is.

Most probably, if you want to start a business this shady, you're an outcast yourself who wants to have a place to meet other outcasts, where some of the more dishonest dealings can be done without repercussions from the law,  and where you dont feel quite so out of place - while at the same time (hoping to) make a profit. So you decide to be brave and take the initiative.  I say this because if you're not an outcast yourself, your chances of getting this off the ground without any funding from the nobility and templarate, and having any -motive- for doing so, is even lower.   You're going to need help.  It's going to have to come from somewhere other than the templarate and nobility, since the aim is to create an evironment essentially free from the arm of the law, and no noble or templar that provides funding for a tavern is going to be doing it without  some sort of catch. And to get that help, you're going to have to have to be damn convincing, and find people of like mind (with money to spare) who are going to benefit from this place. You're chances of that are going to be a hell of a lot higher if you're someone that can relate... but they're still not going to be very high, just because of the type of people you're dealing with.  Is it impossible? Of course not.  There are already taverns in the 'rinth, after all. But it's pretty damn hard.

Alternatives. You could just mosey on over to the 'rinth and do your thing there, but chances are you're going to get your ass killed on the walk over, and even if you don't, it's sure as hell not going to be like a walk in the park.

Getting more to the point, I think taking over the Gaj is an interesting idea.  It's much easier, for one thing.  It's already run down, rustic, and relatively dangerous compared to the higher class establishments.  All it takes is getting in there and making it a point to show people that just because wally the warrior doesn't feel comfortable having you in the same room with him, you're still going to sit there and drink your ale. Sure, there are people that hate you, don't feel comfortable with you, and are fucking scared of you - but they're supposed to be. Eventually, more "outcasts" are going to start going there too - elves, half-elves, humans of the shadier nature, magickers, etc - and people will start to get the hint, and go elsewhere.

Now, of course there are some potential problems to this (depending on how you look at it).

1) The warriors and mercenaries that are currently the primary clientele are going to get pissed off. It wont be "their" place anymore.  Quite possibly, the place wont be called "The Gaj and Gladiator" anymore. But they'll either try to revolt (conflict rocks!), or set up shop somewhere else. Either way, I think it'd make for a lot of interesting roleplay.

2)The Gaj is on the main road of Allanak, usually the first tavern one comes across after entering the city. Again, this could create more conflict.  But eventually, it will be common knowledge that "you don't want to go there."  Hell, many people have that view of the Gaj the way it is now.

3) People might see it as a problem both ICly, and OOCly. ICly, A Templar might get wind of what's going on, see it as a problem that's getting out of hand, and try to intervene. But IMO, the job of the Templarate needs to be harder anyway, and it'll make things interesting - create a constant struggle (which is, incidentally, what armageddon is all about).  

OOCly, people might feel that it would be the start of a rise in power (if only miniscule) for the elementalists and thieves, etc, it might make their lives (slightly) easier, and more common. Some people think that these classes are harder to play for a reason - because they are the minority, and they're supposed to be that way. But why? Those classes are there as an option for a reason as well. So you can play them, and help make the world that much harsher. Conversely, speaking specifically of magickers, a part of me feels that they should be becoming more and more common, not less so.  There is an -entire quarter- set aside for these people, they're allowed citizenship in the city, and they're commonly hired by powerful people, and Houses. Eventually (if things keep progressing the way they are) they're going to be so common that they'll be at least tolerated, if not (i'm looking far, far into the future here) respected.  I don't know how I feel about this, as it doesn't exactly scream "harsh" to me: taking what has been one of the scariest parts of the game and turning it around gives me mixed feelings.  Which brings me to my next point.

Someone mentioned that the visibility of magickers, elves, half-elves - "freaks"- is becoming less and less. This SHOULD NOT be happening. This is freakin' Armageddon. It shouldn't be getting safer.  The masses aren't supposed to be able to enjoy a nice afternoon out on a regular basis. People should be -dying-. It shouldn't be a rare occasion where you get mugged walking down the street. And it sure as hell shouldn't be strange to see a tavern on a well known street that happens to be "shady".

It's time for a revolution, folks.  It just takes a few ballsy mother fuckers to get the ball rolling.

[FiveDisgruntledMonkeysWit]

Bah, just take over the Gaj. There is hardly anyone but elves and newbies in there these days, PC-wise, and when have the Templars ever given a damn about the Gaj?

AC

I've been hearing rumors that my beloved Gaj is floundering... Sigh...

That's it! My next character is going to a rough-and-tumble, scratch-his-gonads, smack-a-halfbreed Southerner. Get ready for lots of drunken barfights, people!  :lol:

[Anonymous]

The problem with 'taking over the gaj' is that a few PCs won't account for the hordes of regular VNPC traffic that bar gets, at least not enough to account for such a shift in clientele.

[Rindan]

The problem with 'taking over the gaj' is that a few PCs won't account for the hordes of regular VNPC traffic that bar gets, at least not enough to account for such a shift in clientele.

Perhaps more of a problem is that it is a massive tavern on the most used street in Allanak on the most patroled road in Allanak.  It is like selling cocain out of a lemonade stand next to a police station.  It is just a bad idea.  The Gaj has its place as a massive mercenary/commoner bar.

[Twilight]

Whatever happened to the tavern, or at least at one point, burnt out shell of a tavern, that was on Slave's Street, right near the rinth?  If I remember right, there was no bartender or anything, but there were tables and a sort of backroom.  It was quite an excellent middle ground where people from the rinth and people from the city proper could meet for, um, business.  I mean, I know it is gone, but I seem to have missed whatever IC event caused the destruction, it having disappeared while I was playing a wilderness character.  That place, refurbished, although not in the Elementalists quarter, kind of what people thinking of?