Tribal Talk

[Rathustra]

If people would stop treating the tribal accent like a multipass, I think we'd see less of the tribal influx.

Though, frankly, the environment and documentation of the coded tribes is more or less set up for mudsex-lovin', babby-havin' folk, and not everyone enjoys that kind of RP.

lol wat

[Delirium]

Case in point: Arabet docs.

I realize staff does what they can to mitigate the hug-pile roleplay, but the documentation could use refreshing too.

As for the multipass comment, it seems like the default for anyone trying to "pass" in either city is to just roll up a tribal. Presto, friends with everyone!

Fortunately Allanak seems a little less huggy-friends with the tribal sorts. Tribals should be (occasionally exotic) outsiders, not near-universally accepted. They should also feel less comfortable with just hanging out in a filthy bar and schmoozing with the locals unless they're a very experienced trader. Think: country bumpkin in New York for the first time.

[Is Friday]

Case in point: Arabet docs.

I realize staff does what they can to mitigate the hug-pile roleplay, but the documentation could use refreshing too.

As for the multipass comment, it seems like the default for anyone trying to "pass" in either city is to just roll up a tribal. Presto, friends with everyone!

Fortunately Allanak seems a little less huggy-friends with the tribal sorts. Tribals should be (occasionally exotic) outsiders, not near-universally accepted. They should also feel less comfortable with just hanging out in a filthy bar and schmoozing with the locals unless they're a very experienced trader. Think: country bumpkin in New York for the first time.

I played with Roughneck's Arabeti. One of my PCs was a bounty he failed to collect on. My PC was paralyzed and awaiting death, trying to bargain with him over the Way when my PC's friend came to the rescue. Then I played a Seik later on. Roughneck was the best example of tribal RP I'd seen ever, gypsies included, for making the game world awesome. I've played 10 indie tribals, 5 Seik/Arabet, 3 gypsies, 1 Jul Tavan, 2 Benjari (estimated.) Roughneck's PC was a dangerous, not bunny hugging PC. Gritty and raw in outsider dealings -- familiar and loving with tribemates. Distrusting of magick (as he should have been as an Arabeti), yet kept it within the realm of realistic fear.

I liked playing with him a lot. I wish all human tribals played with the focus and canon he did. He was the antithesis of the joke human tribals you see. I think he is right and led by example, but I don't believe I have ever met such a powerful PC that represented the documentation and heart of tribal roleplay as he did with his PC. You see the same thing in city clans. Let's use Arj as an example. A Leggionnaire that was a big dumb nice-to-everyone softy outwardly. Arj was a great character, in my opinion. He set the tone for a lot of PCs unwittingly and encouraged them to emulate his behavior, even though he was supposed to be more of a niche/unique person. Part of that was impact, visibility, etc.*

It's hard to impact the game world and leave a tribe a certain way RP-wise because it is insular. So if you have high turnover in that clan you lose the impact of previous PCs a lot of the time, for better or worse. This is why you see the culture of the Byn vary wildly between 2008, 2009, 2010, etc. It really depends on the Sergeant, because so much is open to interpretation.

Having played in the Seik during the time after Calavera's awesome documentation additions, it was a good time. I did not enjoy my time with some of the other players in my clan for various reasons that I addressed with staff. Staff (Rathustra and co.) spent a lot of time tightening up documentation, reinforcing tribal documents, and asked my opinion on how he altered the human tribals clan to make for a fun experience for those involved.

I think one of the best things about the idea of forcing people into a human tribal clan as opposed to allowing them to be indie is that you set a standard for roleplay that can/will be enforced by staff. Such was done with desert elves. I really don't see why we do not do this for human tribals now that we have a "create a clan" option. If you want to run an indie tribal, you should have to develop and have the documentation approved beforehand. This would do two things: 1.) Actually force tribals to act like tribals on some level and 2.) Bring people together for human tribals that really want to embrace the community roleplay. But that's just like... my opinion, man.

Human tribals will always have a special place in my heart.

*I've had this discussion with Arj's player before, so please no one see this post as a bash on his part or others mentioned here.

[bcw81]

:C I liked that one Seik you were talking about she was fun.

But yeah, that goddamn stereotype of tribals is really wrong in so many ways - though there are surely some players who set them.

[Malken]

If I was Rath I would have shut down the Seik after we all played there.

[Patuk]

If everyone loves human tribals so much, why is nobody playing them?

[Cind]

They do seem rarer where I'm playing than usual.

Not gith, mantis.

[Malken]

If everyone loves human tribals so much, why is nobody playing them?

Because there's absolutely no goal to playing them and you are constantly reminded/told that you are a weak ass dying tribe and no matter what you do, quiet survival is your best option.

[Is Friday]

If everyone loves human tribals so much, why is nobody playing them?

Because there's absolutely no goal to playing them and you are constantly reminded/told that you are a weak ass dying tribe and no matter what you do, quiet survival is your best option.

I enjoyed what community roleplay that I could get on my human tribals and that to me was the heart of the role. Playing an indie tribal is, imo, just so that you can solo RP and/or join a clan. The best part of tribal roleplay is the community, for sure. So if you have a toxic player community in the clan that has 10 different ideas about what the tribe should be, it sucks. Hence, Staff has been kind enough to put a lot of effort into making the docs more clear so it's fair.

You can't really punish someone playing a "crappy" tribal if they're indie or they're playing in a clan with barebones docs -- they don't have a standard with which to adhere to.

[Malken]

If everyone loves human tribals so much, why is nobody playing them?

Because there's absolutely no goal to playing them and you are constantly reminded/told that you are a weak ass dying tribe and no matter what you do, quiet survival is your best option.

I enjoyed what community roleplay that I could get on my human tribals and that to me was the heart of the role. Playing an indie tribal is, imo, just so that you can solo RP and/or join a clan. The best part of tribal roleplay is the community, for sure. So if you have a toxic player community in the clan that has 10 different ideas about what the tribe should be, it sucks. Hence, Staff has been kind enough to put a lot of effort into making the docs more clear so it's fair.

You can't really punish someone playing a "crappy" tribal if they're indie or they're playing in a clan with barebones docs -- they don't have a standard with which to adhere to.

I agree that it can be fun for a while, but for someone who is goal oriented like myself, tribals are probably the worse option since, after the usual "let's make sure the tribe has enough food/good relationship with Kurac", there's really not that much else to look forward to. You're still a weak ass dying tribe. The few tribals left that I'm seeing are often working under bigger organizations like Kurac, as mentioned.

[Is Friday]

I'm goal oriented myself. This last time I tried it, I took toward playing the storyteller role in which I could create stories/have broader goals, though. With that being said, I think the current staff structure may allow for clans like the Seik/Arabet to get more love on that front. They are a niche role and not for everyone.

[Molten Heart]

Limiting things like virtual tribes limits player creativity and reinforces the mindset that the coded world is all that exists, assuming there is no virtual world.

[Is Friday]

Limiting things like virtual tribes limits player creativity and reinforces the mindset that is that the coded world is all that exists, assuming there is there is no virtual world.

You are not limited if you go through the tribe creation/clan creation/family creation process available to all players. You cannot play virtual desert elves because it once became a problem that they were being misrepresented in the game. Such is the case, I feel, for human tribals. (And has been for as long as I've been playing.)

[BadSkeelz]

I think that's a conversation for another thread. Lately I've been thinking myself what the "optimal" level of documentation for a clan/tribe/city-state might be. I suppose it'd be enough to know what the mood or flavor of a clan would or could be, without having to be a big script to memorize lest you start doing it wrong.

[Molten Heart]

Limiting things like virtual tribes limits player creativity and reinforces the mindset that is that the coded world is all that exists, assuming there is there is no virtual world.

You are not limited if you go through the tribe creation/clan creation/family creation process available to all players.

What's wrong with the character approval process?

[Is Friday]

Limiting things like virtual tribes limits player creativity and reinforces the mindset that is that the coded world is all that exists, assuming there is there is no virtual world.

You are not limited if you go through the tribe creation/clan creation/family creation process available to all players.

What's wrong with the character approval process?

You cannot belong to a "virtual" tribe with a desert elf because it would mean you are reaping the "benefits" of being a desert elf without any of the culture reinforcement. The same should be applied to tribal humans.

[bcw81]

Split this from the Gith thread.

[Molten Heart]

It'd be good if desert elves weren't restricted to only the tribes that are open.

[slvrmoontiger]

Would have been nice if staff would have put some love into Arabeti/Seik before opening ATV. Not sure the point of ATV, but that's just my saying. I think most people don't/won't play a Seik or Arabeti for the simple reason there really is no community. You have to leave camp to find someone to talk to. So unless you like solo RP and RP with NPCs/VNPCs and learning everything all on your own you really pass on the tribal human. It's just sad because the tribal human play is a lot of fun (as long as you're somewhere other than the camps).

[Patuk]

I think most anythings I've seen, be they tribes ir citystates, err towards too little documentation rather than toward too much of it. Most documentation ends up being something along the lines of 'this is common, but do whatever', anyway. An example is fighting styles: the docs state that Allanaki people may prefer swords, and elves do well with spears, but someone from the south toting a club or an elf with an axe isn't some kind of big deal. As long as it's made clear that deviating from shit like fashion or storytelling docs isn't some kind of grave offence, I think most clans could use some added pages.

[Is Friday]

Would have been nice if staff would have put some love into Arabeti/Seik before opening ATV. Not sure the point of ATV, but that's just my saying. I think most people don't/won't play a Seik or Arabeti for the simple reason there really is no community. You have to leave camp to find someone to talk to. So unless you like solo RP and RP with NPCs/VNPCs and learning everything all on your own you really pass on the tribal human. It's just sad because the tribal human play is a lot of fun (as long as you're somewhere other than the camps).

For the record: Seik/Arabet were given a huge amount of documentation, camp, NPC, lore, everything attention 2ish years ago. Seik/Arabeti docs used to be about 2 paragraphs long. Now it's more like 4-6k words.

[BadSkeelz]

You cannot belong to a "virtual" tribe with a desert elf because it would mean you are reaping the "benefits" of being a desert elf without any of the culture reinforcement. The same should be applied to tribal humans.

What are the benefits to this hypothetical virtual-tribe Desert Elf? Their tribe is virtual and therefore (judging from the City Elf situation) worthless in code and roleplay. What they do have are coded benefits for surviving in the desert, which are perhaps powerful enough that you want players of Desert Elves to be in Staff-managed tribes so a closer eye can be kept on them. That seems a fair trade to me.

Human indie tribals do not have any great coded advantage over a human cityslicker with the right guilds. The only thing they definitely have is the option to play the "other" to the settled peoples, which can have pros or cons depending on how they play. Yes, it can be a multipass, but it can also be a block. An uninked human tribal in Tuluk was at a serious social disadvantage in that City versus an inked human.

You want Human Tribals Players to have to craft Tribal docs and submit them to staff approval. What's your hope there? What's to stop the PC from tailor-making tribal docs to how they plan to play their indie tribal anyway? It's just a lot of paperwork with no guarantee that we're going to see better "Roleplay" or whatever it is you would hope to achieve from this process.

[Is Friday]

Indie human tribals do not have coded benefits, yup. (Unless you consider "sexy accent" a benefit, which some players do, heh.) That's not the point. It's to keep tribals acting like tribals. If you are an Allanaki citizen that acts against the grain, you have peers/leaders/criminals to smack you back into line or staff to do it for them with the virtual world. If you are an indie tribal you can act any way you please and justify it very flimsily.

Which is okay, if you want indie tribals to act like a bunch of wandering dirty Casanovas. But I don't think it lends much to the game.

[Patuk]

lol

Solo delf op? Ban solo delves

Tribal celf op? Ban tribal celf

Maybe the bastards oughta switch

[Delirium]

This is about human tribals, not elven tribals. Take your dead horse elsewhere.