Progression of removal of play options on Arm

[wizturbo]

Different is one way to put it  

Honestly, having experienced elementals in the past and present (I played the Templar in the "Communion" original submission for instance) I can't say the present is significantly different in a negative way.  The change is relatively minor, but again, find out IC.  Of course, all of this has always required a willing staff member to participate.

This assumes you're not talking about the things that happened back in the End of the World plot lines where things went pretty bonkers on the magick front, that was obviously a lot different.  I'd like to see some of this "bonkers" stuff reintroduced to the game, as long as steps are taken to keep it from getting out of hand or disruptive to the relatively low-fantasy setting.

[Wday]

How magick was done and change to now seems good. I understand the back in the day end of the world stuff.
I got to see a lot of it back then. Now days it is poison and believe you get five periane at starting point?

[Zoan]

All these reductions are starting to smell strongly of SoI and its eventual demise.

[Malken]

All these reductions are starting to smell strongly of SoI and its eventual demise.

Yeah I was thinking about that too. Same happened with Harshlands when they tried to squeeze everyone in Tashal.

[Marauder Moe]

In any case, are these measures not a symptom of a diminished/ing player population, rather than the cause?

It was made pretty clear that the fact that we're not at 2006 population levels is a factor.  Seems to me that if we want Tuluk back all we have to do is recruit and retain ~50 more players.   

[Malken]

And the retarded players like myself need to man up and become great Staff potential instead of being a beacon of immaturity and negativity.

[wizturbo]

All of these changes are reversible.  I think it'll be easy to see if the game is lacking without Tuluk, and if it is, all of this can be undone.

I think my favorite part about these changes is the reduced emphasis on PvP Tuluk vs. Allanak, and a focus on more PvE combat plots and PvP political plots.  Huge epic things will be much easier to do for all parties involved when there is only one city to worry about.

I also love the fact that I might find people to play with at all hours of the day and night.

[RogueGunslinger]

I also love the fact that I might find people to play with at all hours of the day and night.

I have nothing much to add to this thread, but I just agree with this. It's what I look forward to the most, and seems to be taking place already even though tuluk is still open(maybe people are just excited and decided to log in last night like me). I was up really late last night playing in an area that I never see people. Probably coincidence, but still. There's excitement, and I think that shows in the playerbase.

[path]

The good Ginka giveth and the good Ginka taketh away.

All hail!

[Gaare]

I always thought single city-state could be awesome.  Even though, Tuluk was my far favourite, it's Allanak where Zalanthas' heart is.  On the other hand, possible problem would be creation of quests and plots along wilderness. I hate when every single thing is ran by IMMs. Crowded city may and hopefully will mean more powerful PCs; Red Robes, Senior Merchants&Nobles, etc. Also after end of Tuluk, I really hope to see some factions outside 'nak high walls flourish. I kinda hope and expect to see playable gith&mantis tribes now. Even maybe some serious bandit clan.

[FantasyWriter]

The good Ginka giveth and the good Ginka taketh away.

All hail!

<3

I'm cool with the Tuluki closure trial. Lots of players have suggested it over the years.  I feel like the only real down side (but a very significant one) is the feels of the players and staff who favor Tuluk and have but so much work into the revamp and the time they spend keeping their PCs out there keeping tuluk alive and active.
I hope we don't loose any players over it like we have some of the changes in the past.

Some selfish ideas/musings that I think would help add options/content for non-city favoring PCs.

Maybe it's me transitioning into a grizzled not-noobie, but the sands feel so much smaller, less magickal (in a figurative sense) than they did a decade ago.
The extended subguilds have been a big help for desert pcs because you know longer have to always choose between "the skill set that best fits my PCs BG/Goals" and "what keeps my PC alive" but as a player with a high PC turnover (and someone who likes playing the occasional higher karma role), I don't get to use them as often as I would like.

I think a trial reopening of the gith would be a good move for livening up the deserts around or new sole city state as well as offer a truly "different" role to play every once in a while.  I would much prefer to being confronted by a PC gith than a MOB.  As an occasional player of raider PCs, it's next to impossible to play a successful outdoors antagonist without being sniffed/whirand/templard before you have the time to being a real threat. (PS-I've never PKd or been PKd in a PvP raider scene, like so many people seem to think is the standard.)
In the words of the great Blackmoon Captain Reynolds: "You all wanna be looking very intently at your own belly buttons. I see a head start to rise, violence is going to ensue."

More quit rooms please. When a delf or gicker can check out every quit or save room in a zone in a single game day, it's a little unrealistic (though IMO perfectly IC for them to want to do). Or make some way to make short-lived quit rooms through a very long-delay command that adds a campsite to the room that degrades over time unless maintained. (code discussion thread incoming).

New short lived places to explore or resources to exploit.  Put a bug in the appropriate clan leader's ear from a scout. Or throw an echo up to to said scout or explorer PCs that they see something strange off to the east.

[Jihelu]

When did we get rid of Fire kank pcs?

[frankjacoby]

I have been reading a LOT of posts and replies going back as far as the board will allow and I see 2 different things here:

1. Players are on the decline, Why?
    A. Graphic intensive games
    B. Better console games
    C. Better human interaction on those multi - player games which allow gaming headsets (Easier communication)
    D. Perception of favoritism leading to rage quits

2.  A. Lack of transparency and a majority of PC's being on the outs

3.  A lack of understanding of what is expected

4.  A Misunderstanding / misinterpretation of someone else's roleplay / A tendency to prefer some roleplaying styles over others

Either way, I see a divide between players and staff and I personally don't think there is a way to resolve this quickly.
Personally, I took a few steps back from the game, but I am interested in seeing the direction of the game before I make a final decision.

That being said, I think that there should be more opportunities granted to people with less or no Karma as it allows them to feel like they
are contributing to the game, instead of the same old group that keeps rolling out there and dying quickly or retiring from the sponsored roles
while those who would be more dedicated would have the opportunity to show that we/they are willing to contribute to the game.

My 0.01 worth

[Nyr]

That being said, I think that there should be more opportunities granted to people with less or no Karma as it allows them to feel like they
are contributing to the game, instead of the same old group that keeps rolling out there and dying quickly or retiring from the sponsored roles
while those who would be more dedicated would have the opportunity to show that we/they are willing to contribute to the game.

We have a certain amount of those opportunities out there already.  If broken down, they'd probably look like this:

Roles requiring trust or at least staff familiarity with your account and play and history:  Templar; maybe nobles
Roles that are much easier for you to prove yourself in provided you've got leadership chops and are willing to communicate: Everything else; maybe nobles

The amount of trust required for someone playing a templar is much higher than the amount of trust required for almost every other role, so that can create a barrier to entry if staff just don't know about how you play.  Nobles do require an amount of trust, but they do not directly/codedly control life and death within a wide swath of territory, so I would not lump them into either category.  I've seen nobles get approved from accounts that had 0-2 karma (it happens more often than you might think), especially if they've had a history of communication and leadership ability.  Every other role is very accessible to players without karma (or with low karma) and can also be attained in-game.  You can become a Byn Sergeant simply by playing, surviving, and being a good leader IC.  You can become an Agent for a GMH the same way.  You can rise to the ranks of leadership in almost any clan as a human; you might not be the noble or templar in charge, but you would have IC power.

You don't necessarily need to rise to IC leadership to prove that you can play a noble or templar.  It does help very much for you to establish yourself as a player who, over time, grows and learns from mistakes, and seeks out to involve (and be involved with) other characters.  The best advice I can offer:  apply for roles.  Being turned down is not the end of the world.  We often (99% of the time, now, if not more) will not explain why we didn't pick you or give constructive feedback because it is not solicited (and it can get taken the wrong way).  If you do want feedback, we can give it--just ask.

[IntuitiveApathy]

I also love the fact that I might find people to play with at all hours of the day and night.

I have nothing much to add to this thread, but I just agree with this. It's what I look forward to the most, and seems to be taking place already even though tuluk is still open(maybe people are just excited and decided to log in last night like me). I was up really late last night playing in an area that I never see people. Probably coincidence, but still. There's excitement, and I think that shows in the playerbase.

As an off-peak player in recent years, I can also say that this is the result that I am most looking forward to.  The main lure of Armageddon is player interaction - without it there's myriad single-player games that are better in ways that Armageddon cannot be.  But try as I may, I have yet to find an experience that can match Armageddon when I'm able to actually regularly play with other people in this crazy desert playground.  I'd say there certainly is some sort of tipping point where there's "enough" interaction available in a given area at a given time - the problem with off-peakers is that encountering that point is kind of like winning the lottery, since you must not only pick the right location, but also the right role.  Choose wrongly and things could be going on elsewhere, but you weren't around to be a part of it.  This problem isn't necessarily limited to off-peak players (though certainly exacerbated for them) given how big the world is even after the closure of Tuluk.

I've been playing Armageddon for over 20 years, and I can say that while it was nice to have options available to play a range of different roles in the game in the past, much of the time I wouldn't choose them anyway, knowing that I wouldn't be able to get the interaction needed to make the role actually fun for the majority of the time I'd play it.  This is true even for the time I was a peak player, which I was for the majority of those years.  If I wanted to only have fun 1/10th of the time playing a MMO, I'd go play Eve.    Interestingly enough, the way I see the current consolidation effort is that it will actually make more viable some of the remaining roles in the game for people like me who do want player interaction.  The tipping point will be more easily surpassed if the player base is concentrated.  For us off-peakers that actually hope to play with others?  It's a godsend.

For those of you talking about the closures of areas in other games as a sign of impending doom - Armageddon actually has a more active playerbase now than it has for much of it's history.  Armageddon used to see 50+ players only during a HRPT, for instance.  But I would argue that for much of that history players had too many options, with the playerbase too spread out, which I suspect limited the growth of game for much of that time.  Of course, there's no way to prove that - it's just been my humble view of things.  Again, my feeling is that with the concentration and people potentially being able to get more player interaction, that things are actually looking up, rather than the reverse.  Then add on top the additional benefits of staff concentration - better plot support, building, response times, RPTs, etc - just icing on the cake, really.

There's still an amazing variety of roles available for players to play in Armageddon, even in the post-Tuluk era.  I'm really looking forward to seeing how things turn out - I do think they will be for the better.

[Saellyn]

I never get any of the sponsored roles I go for. They keep telling me they liked someone else better.

Then that someone else stores or dies or something, and I just go "HAH. That wouldn't have happened if you'd trusted good ol' Saellyn."

SOON.

[Jihelu]

I never get any of the sponsored roles I go for. They keep telling me they liked someone else better.

Then that someone else stores or dies or something, and I just go "HAH. That wouldn't have happened if you'd trusted good ol' Saellyn."

SOON.

You just jinxed your self man.

[Saellyn]

i know, now i'll finally get that black robe templar i keep apping for during every role call.

[AdamBlue]

I wanna play a black robe templar.
I wanna play a black robe templar named Bruce Lee
grafted to his hands are steel cesti so that when he punches it's actually a steel bludgeon weapon
stronger then a half-giant, faster then an elf
dang                                                                                  gosh
but really no
black robe templar sounds like fun but ~so stressful~

[Erythil]

Real talk:

Bring back the drow city with the lore of the underground-dwellers planned for ARM 2 and I would play the fuck out of it.

[Clearsighted]

I miss the tribes, and the gith. Especially the rough ones, like the Red Fangs, Benjari and such.

I think leaving us with only the 'nice' tribes available for PC play is boring and makes the wastes too safe. I don't care for the Sun Runners, who are far too pampered for my taste. They've always struck me as the delf Tan Muark. ATV and SLK are a bit meh-ish.

I don't miss any of the gicker crap or Tuluk. I don't miss Old School Sorcs. Because it was like the same 2-3 people doing it for ten years with anything approaching class. I wasn't a particular fan of the era when Arm 2.0 was being hyped, and everyone and their mother was playing a whiran or nilazi. I don't miss the mantis or the halflings. Halflings were stupidly iso, and playing mantis was like the equivalent of apping a raptor.

If I could bring anything back to Arm, it would be the gith, and a few of the more interesting tribes, human and delf, that are no longer playable. And kanks. I miss kanks, and being able to use words like 'kank fecker' and have it make sense.

But if all those things stayed gone, and Tuluk stayed gone with it, I'd consider it a fair trade.

[HavokBlue]

I can't speak for the SLK because to my knowledge, they've been in the same sad limbo state since re-opening, but if you think the ATV were too nice, you should try one.

[Clearsighted]

I can't speak for the SLK because to my knowledge, they've been in the same sad limbo state since re-opening, but if you think the ATV were too nice, you should try one.

I do and I have.

[Comfortably Dumb]

As someone who had interaction the "old" way and the "new" way with elementals, I think the new way is vastly improved.

I hated how some PCs basically used them as quest dispensers and I'm glad that's gone. Perhaps I have a narrowly-defined view of what "magick should be" on Armageddon, but telling mortals "go get me ten crystals and a gith skull and I'll give you special powers" doesn't fit within that view.

[boog]

I can't speak for the SLK because to my knowledge, they've been in the same sad limbo state since re-opening, but if you think the ATV were too nice, you should try one.

If my SLK merchant hadn't died due to lag... and a skeet...