Gith - The Enemy Returns (to open or no?)

[Rhyden]

PvP warfare isn't epic or exciting or strategic.  It's a spamfest where you die in a split second due to massive ">assist leader", or worse, get ganked by overpowered NPCs and/or units.  I imagine it's also a huge headache for staff too.

The best "war" I got to play in was the Gith War vs. Allanak in.... 2008?  Staff set the agenda and set the pace.  Battles could be drawn out, with waves of enemies rather than one big glob.  It had a plot spanning a RL week, with some frantic opening sequences then a gradual build-up to an epic showdown with the main force/leader.

I agree with Moe. My favorite past wars/battles were: Copper War, Gith War, Mantis War, in that order.

Playable pc gith? Yes, if they're karma restricted.

[wizturbo]

Meh.  More interested in 'rinthi clans, or hostile desert elves, than this.

[Naruto]

Absolutely no!
The real reason closing Tuluk is that it takes too much effort on the staff-side. So, what good is getting gith an allowed race to the playerbase to that problem?

If anyone wants to play a gith, go spec-app it with a strong concept.
If anyone wants to raid people as mundanes, go make a raider group IG.
If anyone wants to raid people as rogue gickers or sorcerors, go make those chars.

There are lots of possibilities. You can just pick anyone. But no giths. I don't think we need gith PCs anytime soon. Let the staff cherish the world around curreny playable areas with current playable races.

[Armaddict]

I chose to wait.  Not because I disagree with opening gith, but because it's being proposed as a solution to what I'm not sure will be a problem.

Tuluk not being open to players is not as discouraging, to me.  As I've said, I think it will 'morph' the northlands into a far more wild atmosphere than what people are used to.

During the rebellion, I remember a lot more raiding in the north, a lot more conflict by players outside of the city, and a lot more 'wilderness' play.  Tuluk closing is one thing, but I don't think it served as the main catalyst for conflict.  Players do.  I want to see if raiding and such becomes prevalent in the new north, before this comes as a solution to that.

Now if we just wanted to open them up because more options are good, I'm all in favor.

[The Lonely Hunter]

I have wanted to see gith re-opened for years. I don't prescribe to the "close things to consolidate the playerbase" idea. If players want to be around others, they will flock together. That said - I am also glad Tuluk closed but for other reasons.

I digress...back to gith!

Gith have a pretty awesome culture and I would be among the first to apply for one if they were opened.

[Jeax]

No, no, no...you've got it all wrong.

Instead of Gith, we need Sith.

[FantasyWriter]

Most of the arguments against the gith here seem to be getting fleshed out PCs confused with aggro mobs that roam the deserts.

Tor PCs aren't fighting wars every time they log in.
Fale PCs aren't throwing parties every time they log in.
Tuluki PCs aren't.... too easy, nevermind.
Gith wouldn't be going out to raid PCs everytime they log in.

Gith roleplay is another "niche" role that could be offered back to the players.
A strange, unique culture that is a far stretch from everyday life.

One of the reasons I generally avoid playing city-bound characters is that more often or not, it feels to me too much like "normal" life as far as PvP conflict and interactions, and as many times as I've tried (I still do from time to time) I just can't get into the elven mindset and enjoy the roleplay.  I understand it, love it, and enjoy interacting with well played elves, but it's just not my thing.
I play this game primarily an escape and creative release.  We're eliminating a city of probably around 60 pcs? (taking a third of the weekly login numbers as a guess).
I don't see what it would hurt or offer up 5-7 roles (whatver tribal cap is) for a trial period and see how it goes.

Some people would like to go out for these roles, some people would not?
Aside form the I don't want candy, so no one should get candy, what would be the downside of giving it a go?

[Nyr]

It would be about as much work as making mantis playable.

Both are races that PCs could and did play before (the last time they were played in any numbers was about 2000/2001...15-16 years ago).  Both (likely) did have some documentation at the time.  Both were active for PC roles at a very different time for the game.  Both are isolated races (not just isolated roles) in that they do not socialize with anything; their interactions with nonmembers of their races are typically fatal for one party or the other and that is not something that is going to change.  Both do not have player documentation anymore, as far as I can tell.  Both have very few staff-side documentation pieces.  I'd have to check, but I'm also reasonably certain neither have any kind of automated setup, PC camp locations, or anything like that...certainly nothing easy to find right now.

We'd rather make other things playable, or make other roles more accessible to players and facilitate more nuanced conflict. The only utility I see for gith PCs or mantis PCs would be in the midst of a series of major RPTs against them, in which it would be beneficial to have some thinking beings behind the keyboard, a la gladiator roles.  (Please do not take this as a guarantee that this will occur.  I'm just offering an example.)

[Armaddict]

Both are isolated races (not just isolated roles) in that they do not socialize with anything;

True for mantis, not for gith.  Gith trade.

[FantasyWriter]

It would be about as much work as making mantis playable.

Both are races that PCs could and did play before (the last time they were played in any numbers was about 2000/2001...15-16 years ago).  Both (likely) did have some documentation at the time.  Both were active for PC roles at a very different time for the game.  Both are isolated races (not just isolated roles) in that they do not socialize with anything; their interactions with nonmembers of their races are typically fatal for one party or the other and that is not something that is going to change.  Both do not have player documentation anymore, as far as I can tell.  Both have very few staff-side documentation pieces.  I'd have to check, but I'm also reasonably certain neither have any kind of automated setup, PC camp locations, or anything like that...certainly nothing easy to find right now.

We'd rather make other things playable, or make other roles more accessible to players and facilitate more nuanced conflict. The only utility I see for gith PCs or mantis PCs would be in the midst of a series of major RPTs against them, in which it would be beneficial to have some thinking beings behind the keyboard, a la gladiator roles.  (Please do not take this as a guarantee that this will occur.  I'm just offering an example.)

As of a couple years ago, one of the gith areas in the tablelands still had a IC rumor board that, I believe, had a good bit of documentation on it, for what it's worth.

(please don't destroy this, it's a treasure to stumble across!!!!)

[Naruto]

Some people would like to go out for these roles, some people would not?
Aside form the I don't want candy, so no one should get candy, what would be the downside of giving it a go?

I am one of those people who wants to play a gith. I have a couple concepts for a gith PC as well. If the gith would made playable, I would definitely apply for it.
As Nyr said, it will take a lot of effort. Gith are not like d-elves. If there would be any trial period, some staff might have to dedicate a lot of time to monitor how the trial goes.
That's why I am against it. IMO, we don't have such a luxury. Let the staff turn their work more awesome. I'm sure we'll all enjoy it.

And yes. PvP is a part of this game. Playing a gith PC would let you give more chance to PvP.
Think of it this way. D-elves most of the time just watch you closely when you pass through their territory. Gith don't. There was a d-elf tribe who didn't as well. What happened to that tribe? Is it closed to players. No, it isn't. They were annihilated.

[TheWanderer]

oh ma highlurd. I knew you people were all elves at heart, but gith? GITH? you make me sick

#keepthepcbloodlinepure

[AdamBlue]

Mantis and Gith would be sick as hell to play.

Going out into the desert or mantislands to fight a PC would be awesome. Prisoner RP would be awesome.

Even more awesome would come the character concepts. I'd like to see a horde of gith swarm Red Storm. Or a horde of mantis attack Tuluk.

[BadSkeelz]

Mantis don't take prisoners, they eat people

Gith wouldn't be able to RP out most of their prisoner RP due to consent changes. You can smear poop on people all you want, though.

[Erythil]

I don't think PC gith would be a good idea unless an entirely new gith culture was created for the purpose, something like the Red Fangs.  Assholes, but not completely and totally cut off culturally from the entire world.

[X-D]

Red fangs were actually modeled after gith culture.

Just a FYI.

[Armaddict]

I don't think PC gith would be a good idea unless an entirely new gith culture was created for the purpose, something like the Red Fangs.  Assholes, but not completely and totally cut off culturally from the entire world.

As noted before by me, Gith were not cut off culturally.  Gith traded where their trade was accepted.  It's been changes over time after they were no longer a playable race that made them seem far less connected.

I don't -have- the gith documentation, but I've -read- gith documentation.  They are, essentially, a really really big and strong blackmoon raiders, as far as their relationship with the world.

[Erythil]

Okay, I stand corrected, then.

[IntuitiveApathy]

I don't think PC gith would be a good idea unless an entirely new gith culture was created for the purpose, something like the Red Fangs.  Assholes, but not completely and totally cut off culturally from the entire world.

As noted before by me, Gith were not cut off culturally.  Gith traded where their trade was accepted.  It's been changes over time after they were no longer a playable race that made them seem far less connected.

I don't -have- the gith documentation, but I've -read- gith documentation.  They are, essentially, a really really big and strong blackmoon raiders, as far as their relationship with the world.

As an aside, this was actually the same for mantis as well - PC mantis also used to interact with other races in a limited fashion during their "golden age" period (ie. not the initial MUD where everyone was anywhere doing anything with steel up their yingyang).

I'm in the camp that doesn't think opening up gith right now would be a great idea - pulling resources away from the rest of the playerbase to support a very limited number of players (and it would necessarily be low-capped for a number of reasons) doesn't seem to justify the potential gains in having the niche option available.  I do like the idea of a gladiator/sekritapp type temporary role when called for though, that sounds like it'd be a nice compromise.

[roughneck]

I voted no because, while I love pvp conflict, I think that the "civilization vs gith" conflict is less complex and dramatic than the "civilized folks vs civilized folks" type of conflict.

I would prefer more coded tribes opening up, and moving the "tribal location" starting option or nomad subguild moved to spec app only.

[X-D]

Course, if you are gith, you are the civilized ones.

[MeTekillot]

and moving the "tribal location" starting option or nomad subguild moved to spec app only.

... why?

[roughneck]

and moving the "tribal location" starting option or nomad subguild moved to spec app only.

... why?

Because it would push people into coded tribes, which I think add a lot to the game. I think there is potential for a lot of conflict and drama with active coded tribes that never really happens because it's hard to fill them with PC's. Also, I think a lot of non-coded tribe, tribal PC concepts have gone stale due to the seemingly high volume of them. If all tribal PC's were funneled into coded tribes, we may even get another one opening up, like the Jul Tavan, Anyali, or something new.

[Delirium]

If people would stop treating the tribal accent like a multipass, I think we'd see less of the tribal influx.

Though, frankly, the environment and documentation of the coded tribes is more or less set up for mudsex-lovin', babby-havin' folk, and not everyone enjoys that kind of RP.

[roughneck]

Though, frankly, the environment and documentation of the coded tribes is more or less set up for mudsex-lovin', babby-havin' folk, and not everyone enjoys that kind of RP.

All that baby-making culture is balanced (or should be) by the fact that your human tribal is part of a small community surrounded by murderous cut-throat elves and dangerous wildlife while trading with lying merchant houses and traiterous city states.

The most fun I've had in this game was playing an Arabetti who racked up around 25k in collected bounties and taught some pretty violent lessons to those who threatened him or his family. The brutal reality of Zalanthas will add a very gritty dimension to all that mudsex-lovin' and babby-havin', if you let it.

Bit of a derail, but I do think it's a better option than opening gith, as much as I would actually love to play a gith PC.