Tuluk Closing to PC play -- discussion thread

[Malken]

Rp'ing this is kind of super awkward, you just feel like asking people what they're planning to do now but you have to pretend that it's business as usual and you're looking for work in Winrothol or whatev.

I'm super curious about what event would make some people want to leave the city while it still "exists" with other people in it.

[BadSkeelz]

"holy shit there seems to be cool stuff down south let's ride that way"

[Nyr]

That brings to mind a question. If there's going to be a noteworthy RPT to close out Tuluk, is there any chance that players that are unable to get their PCs to Tuluk might have a room of sorts to watch what happens?

There would be no way to codedly do this.

Wouldn't it work along the lines of the Nakki arena room for Tulukki players?

Yes, if there was an RPT that was in one set of rooms, but many RPTs are not--even the ones inside cities (especially if they are disruptive).  Action often happens in multiple places, it moves, etc.  If you had wanted to watch the RPT from Sunday, you would've had to have been staff to see everything going on.

Arena events stay inside the Arena, so they are very much easier to control in that regard.

You said this was decided upon about a month ago, which is about when you announced the ATV re-opening. Is there any connection between these, or just coincidence?

There is no connection between the two.

How do you guys see this affecting the northlands in regards to PC play?

This depends on a lot of variables, so it would be hard to say.  There will be no city-state to play in, so anyone playing up there would likely be part of one of the groups that would go there (tribal or affiliated somehow).  There will probably be loner types playing around in the area.  Apart from what we have mentioned so far, there will not be any specific new groups set up by staff.  I know this is pretty generic, but the question is pretty broad, and relies heavily on what PCs actually do.

[Rokal]

Rp'ing this is kind of super awkward, you just feel like asking people what they're planning to do now but you have to pretend that it's business as usual and you're looking for work in Winrothol or whatev.

I'm super curious about what event would make some people want to leave the city while it still "exists" with other people in it.

I know exactly what you mean!, I'm curious, but, you know what I'm excited for?

All of the characters that will be leaving Tuluk - they'll be leaving, somehow.. who knows how. Leaving Tuluk like that will open up numerous possible plots and opportunities  many of the characters probably haven't ever had - changes, like whatevers coming, don't happen often, and the characters will have to embrace a -huge- change. Embracing change in a RP can lead to awesome fun.

I'm expecting lots of people to have awesome stories to tell within a year or twos time!

[FantasyWriter]

"holy shit there seems to be cool stuff down south let's ride that way"

After seeing a new light in the southern skies, faithful Tuluki citizens across the Known take it as a sign from the all-knowing Sun King Muk Utep and begins a pilgrimage southward, though they know not what awaits them.

In latter days, it shall be known as the Three Million Wise-Man March.

[Jihelu]

In even latter days, it shall be known as the "Dumb people saw a bright light and ran off towards it" days.


And of course I miss all the fancy light things while at work.

[Malken]

WAKE UP SHEEPLES, TULUK NEVER EXISTED FOR REAL, WE'RE ALL BATTERIES HOOKED UP TO MUK UTEP'S TEATS

[Armaddict]

-- Flattening of IC power structures to facilitate PC-to-PC conflict (no Red Robes, no senior nobles)

I'd missed this, mostly because I'd read it and assumed it was just more of the same glass ceiling discussion.  However, it now occurs that this is a massive overhaul in progress, and with Tuluk now announced as gone, that means you're planning on doing this same overhaul you tried to do in Tuluk, but now in the social structure that has remained stable and conducive to the role of the game.

I'm curious why there seems to be this obsession with this idea, as a whole, because every time I hear about it, it makes my nose wrinkle a bit.  Equalizing social classes and limiting power structures in a totalitarian, god-king run city -really- doesn't make much sense, to me, so whenever this pops up it makes me really question why it's pushed for so hard, particularly since I don't hear anything about it actually bearing the fruit you speak of.

If this is just more of the same glass ceiling for PC's, disregard this.  Otherwise, I'd kind of like to know why things that aren't broken are being fixed in your eyes, and the reversal in my eyes.

[BadSkeelz]

You don't need really high ranks in 2 or 3 organizations to aspire to. You need a half dozen organizations whose members can reasonably compete with each other. That's what drives conflict and plots.

[Clearsighted]

It's the best decision that Armageddon's staff have made in years, and it's long overdue.

It's the first sign, in a long time, to my eyes at least, that the game might return to some vestige of its former glory. If its really followed through with the hilt.

I've often been highly critical in the past. I'm not afraid to give praise where it's due. I have a tremendous amount of new found respect for staff's courage in making this much needed return to how it used to be, and I think the game, as people adjust, will benefit immensely from its retrenchment.

[Armaddict]

You don't need really high ranks in 2 or 3 organizations to aspire to. You need a half dozen organizations whose members can reasonably compete with each other. That's what drives conflict and plots.

As is, PC's already can't aspire to those positions, but it maintains the social hierarchy.  My concern is, essentially, that messing with things that don't need to be messed with will lead to unforeseen effects that then require fixing and tweaking.  In the meantime, 'knowledge' of the game world is scrambled, in order to try and generate PC to PC conflict that is actually already there.  Keeping those higher ranks intact keeps IC interactions manageable, having to run things by certain people, and provides a time-tested platform for how the society interacts.

Scrambling it up to try and promote conflict is well and good, but there have been multitudes of other suggestions to accomplish the same things that do not require extensive scrambling of the well-known state-of-play in each city.  Not only that, but it also provides an organic 'in' for staff to influence things in game, as has been the practice for a good long time.

In short...we're spending a lot of time reordering and scrambling and adjusting the things that aren't really influencing the problem (I'd like to see how the unreachable goal of attaining red robe status is keeping blue robes from competing with each other), which is time doing something other than what the closing of Tuluk is representing.  In other words...we're shutting down Tuluk to allow staff more time to do these things, but a lot of that time is also being spent making sweeping changes against things that are, in the end, only influencing things as much as staff lets them in the first place.  A red robe doesn't interfere unless a staff member chooses for them to interfere.  A senior noble doesn't pull strings for a noble unless the staff chooses for them to.  There isn't a hidden protection in the social hierarchy that is preventing PC to PC conflict, in its current state.

[Adhira]

-- Flattening of IC power structures to facilitate PC-to-PC conflict (no Red Robes, no senior nobles)

I'd missed this, mostly because I'd read it and assumed it was just more of the same glass ceiling discussion.  However, it now occurs that this is a massive overhaul in progress, and with Tuluk now announced as gone, that means you're planning on doing this same overhaul you tried to do in Tuluk, but now in the social structure that has remained stable and conducive to the role of the game.

I'm curious why there seems to be this obsession with this idea, as a whole, because every time I hear about it, it makes my nose wrinkle a bit.  Equalizing social classes and limiting power structures in a totalitarian, god-king run city -really- doesn't make much sense, to me, so whenever this pops up it makes me really question why it's pushed for so hard, particularly since I don't hear anything about it actually bearing the fruit you speak of.

If this is just more of the same glass ceiling for PC's, disregard this.  Otherwise, I'd kind of like to know why things that aren't broken are being fixed in your eyes, and the reversal in my eyes.

I'm not quite sure what you're saying here.

This statement by Talia is not about changing anything IC. It's about the playable role. It's about red robes and senior nobles not being playable roles, it is indeed the 'glass ceiling' as you mentioned. Talia's post was a compilation of various things that are in place in the game at this time. Not necessarily a list of things that we are suddenly planning on implementing/changing.

There's no modifying and scrambling. The IC ranks exist and aren't going anywhere.

[Armaddict]

-- Flattening of IC power structures to facilitate PC-to-PC conflict (no Red Robes, no senior nobles)

I'd missed this, mostly because I'd read it and assumed it was just more of the same glass ceiling discussion.  However, it now occurs that this is a massive overhaul in progress, and with Tuluk now announced as gone, that means you're planning on doing this same overhaul you tried to do in Tuluk, but now in the social structure that has remained stable and conducive to the role of the game.

I'm curious why there seems to be this obsession with this idea, as a whole, because every time I hear about it, it makes my nose wrinkle a bit.  Equalizing social classes and limiting power structures in a totalitarian, god-king run city -really- doesn't make much sense, to me, so whenever this pops up it makes me really question why it's pushed for so hard, particularly since I don't hear anything about it actually bearing the fruit you speak of.

If this is just more of the same glass ceiling for PC's, disregard this.  Otherwise, I'd kind of like to know why things that aren't broken are being fixed in your eyes, and the reversal in my eyes.

I'm not quite sure what you're saying here.

This statement by Talia is not about changing anything IC. It's about the playable role. It's about red robes and senior nobles not being playable roles, it is indeed the 'glass ceiling' as you mentioned. Talia's post was a compilation of various things that are in place in the game at this time. Not necessarily a list of things that we are suddenly planning on implementing/changing.

Ah, good.  See, that's how I previously understood it.  The...ahem...events, made me wonder if it was a sweeping change across the board to the entire structure of things.  Thank you for clearing it up.  I don't like the glass ceiling, but still find it easy to play around, while as the other I wouldn't be.  Thank you for clarifying for me.

[Cowboy]

Playing a character in Tuluk, right now, is the most difficult thing I have done, on so many levels, with any of my Armageddon lives.  The fact that it will end shortly, one way or another, is the only plus.  Not complaining just telling you how it is for me.

[Talia]

Ah, good.  See, that's how I previously understood it.  The...ahem...events, made me wonder if it was a sweeping change across the board to the entire structure of things.  Thank you for clearing it up.  I don't like the glass ceiling, but still find it easy to play around, while as the other I wouldn't be.  Thank you for clarifying for me.

Sorry, yeah, I was referring to things that are already in game and have been for a few years. I wasn't just thinking of the fact that Red Robes and senior nobles are no longer playable roles, I was also thinking about things like--often, players will ask for their superiors of whatever rank to intervene, and a lot of the time we remain hands-off and wait for PC to PC conflict to play out instead. (Because there's very little that PCs are doing that should really get their bosses' attention.) It's both an IC thing and an OOC thing; just a general policy of letting the game happen at the playable level instead of way up in the stratosphere beyond the ability of PCs to affect.

[Dakota]

How do you guys see this affecting the northlands in regards to PC play?

This depends on a lot of variables, so it would be hard to say...I know this is pretty generic, but the question is pretty broad, and relies heavily on what PCs actually do.

To be fair I think it also relies more so on what staff does at this point beyond X-tribe and Y-loner ranger / witch.

[shpadoinkle]

Is whatever outpost that's planned to be in the north going to be there and open prior to Tuluk's closure? Or are people in the north going to be left in limbo for a bit after Tuluk closes.

[absurdist]

If 'left in limbo' means having awesome refugee roleplay and player interaction, I want to be left in limbo.

[shpadoinkle]

Why would there be refugee roleplay when Tuluk is still technically there? The whole thing is just awkward. "Left in limbo" refers to not having a place to hang out, get a drink, stable your mount, enjoy some law enforced areas yet there's an entire city state just sitting there.

[LauraMars]

we don't know what will happen.

that's what's so exciting

[absurdist]

Why would there be refugee roleplay when Tuluk is still technically there? The whole thing is just awkward. "Left in limbo" refers to not having a place to hang out, get a drink, stable your mount, enjoy some law enforced areas yet there's an entire city state just sitting there.

Why would there be? Maybe there will be a rpt. Maybe there will be significant ic reasons for a portion of the population to flee Tuluk. We don't know yet, that's the thing. I certainly hope it's not a situation where everyone will have a bland reason to leave the gates and instantly migrate to Luirs for some fantastic tavern and stable roleplay. I don't know.

edit: what laura said, I'm trying to be hopeful

[Kol]

we don't know what will happen.

that's what's so exciting

This.

[Bast]

Man, listen, Allanak is about to become so very real. Not that it wasn't before, but ... man. All of this manpower filling the ranks of the various clans. Maybe membership in a Noble House will carry that "I got in!" feeling again. Tor bustles with officers. Fale is able to fill out it's bardic complement. Oashi Elites become a playable group again, perhaps. Everyone craves the luxurious Amber lifestyle of the Borsail Wyverns. Imagine a couple more Noble Houses opening, to further fray the political scene.

People filling and craving these roles is what has been the problem. Consolidation is a perfect solution to the issue. Rather than having two half-staffed/played political factions, you now have the one, vibrant and alive locale.

I'm am so, so for this. I'll miss Tuluk too, in a way. After all, I helped liberate it. But ... no, Allanak is where it's always been at, and where it always will be at. I'm so in. GMHs won't suffer at all. Someone suggested that some of the play for GMHs involved going from city to city. Trust me when I say this - most GMH players are just fine staying in one place, and traveling somewhere to visit. They mostly hate re-stationing.

Armageddon was never as rich to me as it was before Tuluk opened, when Allanak was the lone metropolitan option. I've got a feeling most of you will understand this in the coming months.

This! I completely agree with more players in the same area it allows for a much richer and more vibrant experience.  I know this sucks for a lot of people. I am having store myself but I think it will make the game better in the long run. Your much likely to get those odd roles everyone wants i.e slaves, house guard, and so on. Also the social status  between the variously positions for commoners is going to mean more with more players in the same city. Leaders will be able to be more picky about who they hire, the RP bar will get raised. All of which are good things.

[Rokal]

Why would there be refugee roleplay when Tuluk is still technically there? The whole thing is just awkward. "Left in limbo" refers to not having a place to hang out, get a drink, stable your mount, enjoy some law enforced areas yet there's an entire city state just sitting there.

Think of it this way.

The current characters in Tuluk dont know whats coming, what could send them away.

This alone is going to send multiple chars down different routes and that alone will create a chain reaction of new plots, new adventures.

These characters are undergoing a huge change, they're going to be pushed out of comfort zones, and pushed to adapting to new things.

Its an epic way to start an epic story. I don't think the characters will be stuck in limbo! Embrace change in RP, because characters themselves, are always changing-  thats what I think

[BadSkeelz]

Unless you happen to be out of town on the weekend your hometown changes dramatically, leaving you with the dubious prospect of having to RP reacting to a life-changing event you don't really have any solid information on