Tuluk Closing to PC play -- discussion thread

[Nyr]

Inquiring minds want to know what direction the game is going

Low fantasy is one i can confirm, to which i can confirm at least 13 people who are in favour of that

Low fantasy is another way of saying "when there is big major magick and fantastical stuff, it will be rare, so as to preserve the mystery and desire to actually see big major magick and fantastical stuff...and not make it an everyday occurrence."

[MeTekillot]

Then why remove halflings?  they were very low

[Nyr]

Then why remove halflings?  they were very low

I'll let this pun slide for now.

[bcw81]

Then why remove halflings?  they were very low

I'll let this pun slide for now.

We'll keep it on the down 'low'.

[Ktavialt]

As a longtime player who has been inactive for about a year and a half but keeps tabs on major announcements...

... AWESOME.

I like the idea of consolidating the player base.  I miss playing stuff like gith, but I think consolidating the player base is always a great idea.

Awesome.

Just giving my two cents.

I also like flattening the power structure... that makes sense.

[Ktavialt]

And maybe I'll come back soon. (though don't wanna toss my social life, sigh).

[Dakota]

-- Improvements to code and technology
-- Increased OOC responsibility for important game functions granted to trusted players (Helpers, GDB moderators, Builders)
-- Better documentation of game administration systems and processes (e.g. karma granting)
-- Improved clan documentation, both player-side and staff-side
-- Improved clan systems
-- Flattening of IC power structures to facilitate PC-to-PC conflict (no Red Robes, no senior nobles)
-- Staff-initiated large plots which involve multiple clan groups
-- Facilitation of player-driven/initiated plots and plot twists
-- Action in plots happening at the PC level rather than V/NPC
-- Emphasis on low fantasy elements of the game (though high fantasy continues to exist, it's in the back seat rather than driving)
-- Adding code which offers more fun stuff to players (extended subguilds, new skills)

There's probably more, all of which you could guess from stuff we've actually done the last few years.

This is the most transparent post I've ever seen from staff in regards to which direction the game is heading and whats on the horizon. Perhaps I've missed some posts in the past though as forward as these. I appreciate it (and I'm certain other players do).

I will say though harping on what was said about what's been closed / taken away from the playable game... Consolidation is a good thing. Focus is a good thing (even in a sandbox). But options are as well. I'm not one of these old players whose seen mantis. Seen playable Gith. Seen weird magicker clans out in the sands. Halflings. The Grey before it was a largely unplayable death zone, etc, etc, etc...

Options and color are a good thing. Maybe if you want to make the sandbox smaller, fine, but please be wary of limiting options.

[flurry]

Surprised but not necessarily disappointed. If nothing else we can see if there's merit to the consolidated player base often suggested.

I haven't read this thread from cover to cover, but I'm hoping it's still okay to create a character with a Tuluk background.

[bcw81]

Surprised but not necessarily disappointed. If nothing else we can see if there's merit to the consolidated player base often suggested.

I haven't read this thread from cover to cover, but I'm hoping it's still okay to create a character with a Tuluk background.

It is. Staff have constantly said Tuluk will still be a thing - you just can't live there or enter there on a non-virtual level.

[slvrmoontiger]

Also posted about this really increasing the stature of Kurac, yet through OOC means. Are staff going to take that into consideration and attempt to equalize things? Or does Luirs just become the new Tuluk?

This is a lot of stuff packed into a few sentences.  I'll start at the back end here:  I'm not sure what you mean by Luir's becoming the new Tuluk.  We don't want a place to become the new Tuluk.  We do expect that Luir's will become a more important location.  The reason for this is that it will be an outpost that is at the fringes of playable, human-centric influence, rather than a waypoint between two PC-played city-state powers.  We will take the time to flesh out Luir's some more as well as Red Storm and other "outpost" type locations that exist elsewhere in the Known World.  We've also said that there will be a northern outpost that we're looking to set up.  This location will not be Tuluk, but it will be near it.

This makes me think more and more that Luir's will become much more like Red Storm in the near future, very few PCs around besides PCs in the Kuraci clan. Already there's very few that come through that are not in the Kuraci clan and it takes events to inspire PCs to come there. At least, with Tuluk open PCs had a reason to stop in even if it was for a brief amount of time. This is very sad.

Now onto another thing:

I'm very curious why ATV's were opened when Staff was already overwhelmed and stretched out (thus causing Tuluk to close). Why open a new clan when you plan on closing a city? Especially because in a Post by Nyr he indicated a lot of work was done to make changes to the ATV. Couldn't that time have been better spent to renewing interest in Tuluk.

Please don't get me wrong I completely understand the need to have staff optimal capabilities and I completely understand that closing Tuluk will free up staff to do a lot of good fun new things. I'm just curious if other things could have been done, such as maybe closing Red Storm, not re-opening ATV, etc? I'm suspecting the answer to this would be that Tuluk takes up much more staff resources than Red Storm and ATV do. In that case I understand.

Moving on in another post a player (sorry I don't remember who and I don't feel like roaming the 19 pages in this thread to find it) asked what players didn't like about Tuluk and what they did like so I figured I'd put in my 2 'sids worth for this.

Didn't likes:
1) I really didn't like the fact that Tuluk was so templar/noble PC top heavy. By this I mean it seemed like staff was trying to get interest by opening role calls, while in theory this should and could inspire interest, however it also created a situation that from what I saw caused the PC Tuluki citizenship to fall with about 1 templar/noble for every 2 or 3 commoner citizen. This caused a very unrealistic feel to Tuluk as I'm sure population wise there would be a lot more commoners than templar/nobles. I do give kudos to staff for trying to inspire people to play in Tuluk.
2) I really didn't see the reasoning behind closing one tavern just to open another, maybe it was to try and put the two taverns closer together to increase the chances of PC interaction, I don't know.
3) I feel a lot of players became quite uninspired to even go to Tuluk if they were not citizens when the barricades got put in. The amount of players playing in Tuluk decreased quite a bit after that happened.
4) The filth getting added to the streets. I'm not sure if this was another attempt from Staff to draw players in, considering this is a thing that draws players to Allanak or if it was part of the plots to eventually close Tuluk. Tuluki citizens (even the lowliest) are proud of how clean and nice looking Tuluk is and that's what caused it to be better (in their eyes) than Allanak.

Likes:
1) Bards: I actually had bards IG ask some of my previous characters to apply to join the circle, even considered this at one point but felt it would restrict my PCs with how they did things. I wish I had have gotten a chance to actually play a bard from the Circle from the start.
2) Clean streets, beautiful art, freedom to have a King that didn't cause submission by fear but more from being someone that wanted his people to prosper and become the best they could be.
3) The subtlety behind things. I never did get to play a shadow type PC after the changes went into affect. I liked the changes though and felt that these enhanced the whole thing behind Tuluk. I felt that this also showed more of the tradition of what led to the liberation of Tuluk and this allowed history to come alive for me, albeit from more of a OOC standpoint than a IC standpoint but I had some good IC RP after the changes went through and because of the changes.
4) Tea, I know there's tea elsewhere in the game however it isn't nearly as much of a daily occurrence.

Still shocked about Tuluk going away and let me reiterate this: I completely understand the need for this to have happened, however it doesn't mean I can't be saddened, angered, and disappointed by this change.

[Delirium]

#2 in that "likes" list is rather... naive.  

[Rokal]

#2 in that "likes" list is rather... naive.  

[slvrmoontiger]

I'm not really sure if that was meant as a joke or an insult. Considering you didn't bother to explain yourself or your response I'm not really sure what is meant by it.

[Delirium]

In character, it's accurate propaganda. Out of character, it's very inaccurate. Tuluk is an iron-fisted, dystopic regime hidden behind a pretty facade.

[Nyr]

This makes me think more and more that Luir's will become much more like Red Storm in the near future, very few PCs around besides PCs in the Kuraci clan. Already there's very few that come through that are not in the Kuraci clan and it takes events to inspire PCs to come there. At least, with Tuluk open PCs had a reason to stop in even if it was for a brief amount of time. This is very sad.

What part of that post makes you think any of this?

I'm very curious why ATV's were opened when Staff was already overwhelmed and stretched out (thus causing Tuluk to close). Why open a new clan when you plan on closing a city? Especially because in a Post by Nyr he indicated a lot of work was done to make changes to the ATV. Couldn't that time have been better spent to renewing interest in Tuluk.

Please don't get me wrong I completely understand the need to have staff optimal capabilities and I completely understand that closing Tuluk will free up staff to do a lot of good fun new things. I'm just curious if other things could have been done, such as maybe closing Red Storm, not re-opening ATV, etc? I'm suspecting the answer to this would be that Tuluk takes up much more staff resources than Red Storm and ATV do. In that case I understand.

I'll use an analogy I used for another change (character reports).  

Picture this scenario:  I need to cut some calories and lose weight.  I eat a whole chocolate cake each day because I love cake.  I eat a candy bar once per week because I like candy bars.  Your advice here is for me to stop eating candy bars so that I can lose weight.

[Rokal]

In character, it's accurate propaganda. Out of character, it's very inaccurate. Tuluk is an iron-fisted, dystopic regime hidden behind a pretty facade.

This is spot-on.

Yeah, no insult intended here

[slvrmoontiger]

In character, it's accurate propaganda. Out of character, it's very inaccurate. Tuluk is an iron-fisted, dystopic regime hidden behind a pretty facade.

Sorry, I meant that IC I liked that.

[slvrmoontiger]

This makes me think more and more that Luir's will become much more like Red Storm in the near future, very few PCs around besides PCs in the Kuraci clan. Already there's very few that come through that are not in the Kuraci clan and it takes events to inspire PCs to come there. At least, with Tuluk open PCs had a reason to stop in even if it was for a brief amount of time. This is very sad.

What part of that post makes you think any of this?

Most do not travel to places on the outer fringes of civilization without a reason.

I'm very curious why ATV's were opened when Staff was already overwhelmed and stretched out (thus causing Tuluk to close). Why open a new clan when you plan on closing a city? Especially because in a Post by Nyr he indicated a lot of work was done to make changes to the ATV. Couldn't that time have been better spent to renewing interest in Tuluk.

Please don't get me wrong I completely understand the need to have staff optimal capabilities and I completely understand that closing Tuluk will free up staff to do a lot of good fun new things. I'm just curious if other things could have been done, such as maybe closing Red Storm, not re-opening ATV, etc? I'm suspecting the answer to this would be that Tuluk takes up much more staff resources than Red Storm and ATV do. In that case I understand.

I'll use an analogy I used for another change (character reports).  

Picture this scenario:  I need to cut some calories and lose weight.  I eat a whole chocolate cake each day because I love cake.  I eat a candy bar once per week because I like candy bars.  Your advice here is for me to stop eating candy bars so that I can lose weight.
[/quote]

I completely understand, Nyr. I already stated in my post that the resources that Tuluk requires probably isn't even close to those of the other two. Thank you for verifying this.

[RogueGunslinger]

 It seems like people are trying to come up with every way possible this might be bad, instead of just waiting to see what the effects are and judging from there. Why get yourself worked up over something that may or may not happen? Half the concerns that people keep bringing up are things we have no way of knowing until we play things out. I suggest everyone just relax instead of working themselves up in a tizzy. The nature of the way that staff is going about this seems to make it easily reversible. Not that I think it will be, because I think this will do countless good things for the game, but the option will be there.

[absurdist]

Should honestly just close off the entire Northlands.

tldr; unpopular opinion

[Barsook]

I hope we get a major RPT that day of the closing as a good-bye and to share stories if that closing is before 11:59 PM that day.

[slvrmoontiger]

That brings to mind a question. If there's going to be a noteworthy RPT to close out Tuluk, is there any chance that players that are unable to get their PCs to Tuluk might have a room of sorts to watch what happens?

[Nyr]

That brings to mind a question. If there's going to be a noteworthy RPT to close out Tuluk, is there any chance that players that are unable to get their PCs to Tuluk might have a room of sorts to watch what happens?

There would be no way to codedly do this.

[HavokBlue]

I think I have a couple logs/other interesting things from the last year or so of Tuluk that I'll open up a request about submitting. I think with Tuluk closing and involved PCs being gone they might make for entertaining reads.

[Kol]

That brings to mind a question. If there's going to be a noteworthy RPT to close out Tuluk, is there any chance that players that are unable to get their PCs to Tuluk might have a room of sorts to watch what happens?

There would be no way to codedly do this.

Wouldn't it work along the lines of the Nakki arena room for Tulukki players?


I'm pretty bummed out about this, I can understand the reasoning behind it, but it still feels like someone just took the last of my favorite chocolate from the shelf and the lines been discontinued.

You said this was decided upon about a month ago, which is about when you announced the ATV re-opening. Is there any connection between these, or just coincidence?

How do you guys see this affecting the northlands in regards to PC play?