Do you feel neglected a little?

[Welda]

Asking for karma review is really the safest bet.

I think getting noticed during off-peaks by staff requires one simple thing - solo-roleplaying. There are people who don't enter a single emote/think/feel for an hour while crafting/hunting/exploring, simply because they are all alone. It's understable, but it's also really boring to watch. If you are one of seven people in the world and you are the only one who cares to emote/think/etc., you are probably the one with the highest chances to be watched by staff.

[Zoan]

Do you love me, Welda?

[Nergal]

Karma is arguably less important with the way special apps are handled. Just because you can't automatically app a certain guild or race does not mean you can't play it under any circumstances - it simply means you'd have to put in a special app for it. And playing a special apped character is also a good way to show that you can handle a certain karma level permanently. So ask for a karma review and/or put in a special app for something you really want to play.

There's also a thread on the IDB where staff discuss players that might've been passed over. A lot of those players are good players with no karma that get recommended by their clan staff for their first karma point.

Edit to add: Oh, it definitely doesn't take anywhere near 2 months to resolve a special app. It takes 1 month max, but usually within 1-2 weeks, just looking at the most recent ones. It's also quick to ask for an extended subguild or skill bump.

[Jihelu]

Should probably go under newbie questions but.
Karma review = Account notes rite.

[Nyr]

I call April Fool's joke post.  It would have to be!  ^_^

--you lost your account?  But how would you get recognized for playing for 13 years if you nor staff know what account you played under before? Hah!  Ya got us!

--you asked for karma...and got it!  sweet! You're batting a thousand!! 

--we turn around spec apps faster than that by far.  Like, twice as fast! 

--posted April 1, end of day.  Just close enough to look legit but make you wonder...am I being pranked here?

Man, first we have the Beg Ginka stuff, then House Kawaii (where my Kawaii peeps at? ^_^), and now this!  Everyone really has gone all out for this year.  Kudos all around!

[Patuk]

Was that really warranted? Really?

[Nyr]

My apologies, I didn't realize you were serious.  I thought you were posting an April Fool's thread due to the timing of your post and no replies from you after creating the thread!

Here's the serious response, then:

If you lost your account, we don't know what your old account was.  We can try to find it if we are asked to help, but if we can't, we can't take your word for the fact that you played for 13 years.  You'd have to count any "trust" earned over the course of the time you've played with whatever account you do have.  We've occasionally had that happen:  players that claim they've played for years, they show up with a new account, they can't remember their old account information at all...and we can't find it based on the details they've given us.  Without knowing who you are, what you played, or how you played...unfortunately, all of that is lost.  You can't bank on it, you can't refer to it in a serious way, you can't expect staff to do anything about it--it may as well not exist if it can't be located.  Yes, you've played for that many years, that's awesome (longer than plenty of other players!), but if it can't be backed up with an account, it can't weigh into any karma review.  In short:  that really sucks!  We can try and track it down for you but you'd have to help us with that.

Asking for a karma review is truly the best way to have your karma reviewed.  We can review at other times; we will review when you ask.  People slip through the cracks.  In your case, you asked, and according to you, you got karma.  That's a win in my book.  (Again, you'd have to count this as karma gained over the course of this account, not the missing one(s?) plus this one.)

We do take a while on special apps, but they are generally done within a month.  They are pretty low-priority requests.

Finally, communication is a two way street, but it starts on the side with the problem.  If you don't tell staff that you have a problem, we don't know that you have one.  Similarly, if staff have an issue with what you are doing, we'll need to inform you and not just hold it against you.  We try to hold up our end of that.

Sorry about assuming this was an April Fool's thread! Throw tomatoes at me, I'll be the April Fool now. 

[Saellyn]

Shit I went through Nyr's post and actually thought this WAS a joke. Then the reply came...

Son of a... damn it Nyr stop getting my hopes up so they can be dashed.


Yeah. Nyr basically rehashed some of what I said and added his own take. You have to take the initiative sometimes to start the communication road. This is one way to go about it, but putting in requests and such saying you're out Karma and you'd like some is really the best way to handle it. Remember, we're here for you.


Maybe I'm just wearing Optimism Glasses.

[Nyr]

Thanks for the quick follow up.  Seems the neglect was my own doing. I'll write the E-book on "How to fly under the staff's radar for YEARS."

If you'd like to have your old account associated with your current one, you can put in a request to assist staff in tracking it down.  If you can remember PC names, or an sdesc, or the e-mail for the account, or anything...it will help us isolate it.  If you can't remember anything at all, or our search with your assistance is fruitless, then that sucks. 

What might happen if we were able to find your old account?  If you had karma on your old account(s), we could transfer it, but I'm assuming you did not or this would be a different sort of post.  However, maybe it is there and you just don't know, so it'd be good to at least learn that.  Other than that, we'd now take your play over the previous account into our assessment for karma on your current account.  If there are a lot of bad notes, they might give us pause, but you say that you got karma recently, so apparently you aren't terrible!   If there are not that many notes at all (or none), then we'd look at how much playtime occurred on the account, reviewing for longevity first.  (Simply possessing an account for years != grounds for longevity karma, it does require playing.)  We'd then be able to use PC names and maybe track them against the IDB--did anyone make notes there instead of on the account?  Maybe that would be good to review.  Finally, if there are good notes, we'd take those into account as well.  At your next karma review, all of that would be looked at, and it may well affect your account positively.

If we are unable to find your account with your assistance, then that leaves you with some frustration, certainly, but I don't think we can do much about it.  From our perspective, you haven't been flying under the radar...even if your old account can be tracked down, there is no association between it and you right now.  I know it seems different to you as you have played for longer, but we can only go by what account you (and we) know you have. 

Maybe you can reach out to us and help us find what you had before, if only to ease your mind?

[Desertman]

Does anyone else feel neglected by staff?

It has been 13 years of playing arm, on and off. With one lost account user name and password from a year break. I've never cheated, always played fair, and consistent kept characters realistic.

In all that time I understand most about the game.... Except magick... I've only ever received one karma. For longevity. I basically asked for it recently.

How do some people have enough karma to roll a mul for the hell of it but I can't get a rukkian without sitting 2 months for a special app?

I understand karma is a measure of trust. But seriously? 13 years and I am still not trusted?

I could have enlisted in the military, gotten top secret clearance and honorably discharged faster than I can organically get enough karma to play a damn half giant who can't be given any top secret info.

I could go through undergrad, med school, specialty training, and people would trust me with thier lives in a heart surgery before the staff would trust me to heal players with a vivaduian.

I'll consent to a background check. I'll donate a little $ to your favorite charity. You can talk to my mom if you need. What sort of sucking up do I need to do to capture your attention long enough to earn an ounce of POSITIVE recognition?

Let's be realistic: Karma is NOT a policy of trust but is a tool of FAVORITISM. And if my irregular log in time fails to position me under the all seeing eye of the IMMs I am left for neglect. The only attention granted is of the negative variety for whatever irregularities occur that can happen to anyone.

I'll follow the new character report policy and see what happens. But if my perfect damn behavior and reports of it is not rewarded I'm going to put this game to rest indefinitely.

Play characters that are movers and shakers and that generate and run plotlines.

This is a surefire way to get noticed.

(I'm not saying you don't, I'm just saying, this works for me.)

It has nothing to do with sucking up to staff. I have enough karma to play multiple kinds of magickers (even though I don't) and I've been banned three times for being a dick. (Even though over the years I have grown to regret that stupidity.)

I got all of that karma before the last time I was banned. Haven't got any in the years since being unbanned. *shrug*

Suggesting you only get karma because you are a suck-up or staff likes you isn't unfounded. That is a way to get karma. Just not the way I suggest to get it.

I have a RL friend whom I introduced to the game who got more karma than I have currently over the course of a single PC that lived for less than six RL months simply because they talked OOC regularly to a certain gal staff member. (Confirmed IRL when he laughed and showed me on his account like a madman many years ago after that PC died.)

That staff member is no longer on staff though (hasn't been for several years), and I feel no desire to slander their name in the community.

That is far from the norm though. Sure, staff are just human and crap like that happens. That's the nature of any online gaming community. Nobody is perfect but don't let it get you down.

At the same time, I got every point of karma I have back in the day when I'm not sure I would have given myself karma if I were on staff just because I was a huge wanker.

[Desertman]

Play characters that are movers and shakers and that generate and run plotlines.

This is a surefire way to get noticed.

I have irregular play times and 90% of the time it's a solo game for me.

My wife played almost entirely solo in every regard on a PC that lived for over two RL years. Seriously, she was the most solo character I have ever seen especially to have lived that long. Her solo-RP is next level shit. I could sit and watch it and be more entertained than if I was playing the game myself. I'm not even joking. I know that character of hers may have met and spoken to no more than ten or fifteen characters over the course of its entire existence and maybe had two or three friends that comically always died shortly after meeting her.

She has as much karma as I do and got it all from that solo-RP character. (It was so bad I would rage at her about having this awesome character and "doing nothing with it!!!")

It's not undoable.

[Malken]

Asking for karma review is really the safest bet.

I think getting noticed during off-peaks by staff requires one simple thing - solo-roleplaying. There are people who don't enter a single emote/think/feel for an hour while crafting/hunting/exploring, simply because they are all alone. It's understable, but it's also really boring to watch. If you are one of seven people in the world and you are the only one who cares to emote/think/etc., you are probably the one with the highest chances to be watched by staff.

If it's boring to watch someone who apparently feels so alone that he doesn't bother solo-roleplaying because he probably thinks that at 3 am, there's no Staff watching them, why not just use Storytelling superpowers and let him/her know that he isn't as alone as he might think he is and actually make it more fun for him by echo'ing a few things or animating an NPC, instead of jumping to the guy who's a superstar solo-emoting king with probably already 13 karma (me ^_^) just to watch him some more??

[Saellyn]

Seriously. Some of us think we're alone, don't want to do shit because it bores us to death. The second animation starts, though, that gets us geared up. You can't expect every player to play a certain way. Sometimes thinking and feeling just isn't something that a player does a lot. If you give us something to interact with, and make it feel less hopeless, you'll probably find a superstar in the making.

[Xalle]

Don't worry, we do that too.

[seidhr]

The best is when you use your animation superpowers and just get ignored.   

[Malken]

The best is when you use your animation superpowers and just get ignored.   

If you keep trying and the guy keeps ignoring you and your attempts at interacting with him, then yeah, I don't blame you for moving on.

I HOPE YOU ENJOY UR ENDLESS DWARF WARRIORS OPTION, M8

[Desertman]

The best is when you use your animation superpowers and just get ignored.   

If you keep trying and the guy keeps ignoring you and your attempts at interacting with him, then yeah, I don't blame you for moving on.

I HOPE YOU ENJOY UR ENDLESS DWARF WARRIORS OPTION, M8

feel like grunting

You feel like grunting.

think I wanna' grunt.

You think: "I wanna' grunt."

sleep
think About grunting

You dream: "About grunting."

[Saellyn]

I tend to jump when I see any sort of animation, even if it's an echo, and generally I will throw an emote out in relation to it.

If it ends up being staff animations, great! I'm sure you know -generally- I respond to animations, uh... generally.

If I seem like I'm just sitting there doing nothing, don't be afraid to beep. It will be hilarious for you and I will cuss you out.

[Malken]

feel like grunting

You feel like grunting.

think I wanna' grunt.

You think: "I wanna' grunt."

sleep
think About grunting

You dream: "About grunting."

You felt, you thought and you slept - Not only do you deserve your first karma, you've also lost your dwarf option.

[Aruven]

OP: Karma takes a long time. Your case sounds... pretty extreme. I imagine if you were a twink who put no effort in you wouldn't be asking about this here.

I put a similar e-mail into staff, not too long ago. I mean i'd played nobles, sponsored roles, a templar. I left the game for awhile from time to time : Barely any karma.

Early on in my 'arm career' I went toe to toe with a staffer who REALLY had it in for me. I was still really young and learning the game and this guy was hacking up my account with notes. He would animate these avatars and come hunt my PC down, and say shit like : "How are you starting this mercenary company? A borsail lord told you? Fuck him. The Byn will kill you and its bad roleplay that you are trying."

I mean it was really frustrating stuff for a hot-head 15-16 year old kid to deal with as I was learning the boundaries. I've gone at it with staff on the GDB before too. Sometimes you do feel like you are ignored, but I don't think its ever intentional. You've got to really piss someone off to have staff actively singling you out. I would like to think Staff do not animate avatars just to whack people anymore. In the past, admittedly, this has happened and infuriated me, but its been a very long time.

I grew up a lot in this community, so things have changed, including me, and I would venture to say staff also. Let me give you an example. This is an account note I had.


1/28/07 -- Cast magick in Luirs, when confronted sandwalled the tavern and taunted pcs in the presence of many soldiers.


Under different circumstances (like holding up a gaj with a crossbow) This would have been considered an awesome scene. But it was a detriment back then and I suffered for it.
So keep in mind standards change.

However, i also have some stuff like this...

Running around backstabbing everything in sight in the 'Rinth, commented - 9/06/04


Granted that's 2004, but staff see stuff like that when they cruise over your notes. If you have that stuff riddled in your reviews its probably not a great idea to them to give you MORE coded power.

Two last things:

-The staff added this pointless code, called 'review'. The idea was if you wanted a staff member to 'watch' your roleplay you would turn it on and stand a better chance of getting noticed. This sucks, and it has no purpose. In its defense, I think it was instituted before the character requests script the main page has. So this fix we had come up with to spread some karma love failed miserably. Back in the day you didn't 'ask' to be reviewed staff just basically sent you a player kudos and you got a karma if it was good enough RP. I think people are still figuring out that you HAVE TO REQUEST YOUR NOTES consistently to see progress now, in most cases.

This is from Nyr when i mentioned some similar qualms with my karma:

...However, you mention that you are at this karma after 10 years of play.  You have not requested account notes in over 4 years; part of the expectation here is that if you would like feedback, you should request your account notes!

So just make sure to ask for a review as soon as you can, and stick to a good schedule for it. You might see some changes.

Looks like its been touched on, but yeah favoritism twists in good and bad ways in this game. I know some other players loosely and enjoy roleplaying with them more because I know they won't take up 60% of the playtime with coded questions. Not that I mind helping noobs or less experienced players, but sometimes i'm just not in the mood, straight up. (This is ok in my opinion) "Good"

I used to see some disturbing trends and staff attention in specific areas with specific players, to the point where it wasn't fair to other players. That was always very limited, and i'm talking about once or twice (give or take a couple instances) over a decade here. Everyone has probably seen that in some regard.

I think a really good example is something that happened recently with the HRPT. Staff had to support specific areas to facilitate game changes, which made players in some not so focused areas feel neglected. I highly doubt it was intentional, sometimes that is just how it works.

On a positive note, generally I have had the fortune of having really dedicated staff do awesome things in my lifetime of playing this game also. Sometimes i'd get back more than one e-mail in the same day and even some IG interactions. I've had staff just pop in and flavor up a scene with one say or tell then go, and i've seen them help carry scenes when players are overwhelmed.

[Aruven]

In my defense by the time I finished typing this there were 9 new posts... So maybe everything got covered haha

[Beethoven]

To answer the question du jour, no, I don't feel neglected. In fact, I feel almost amazed that my karma level is what it is. I felt good when I had three points, and I really wasn't expecting my fourth. I put in an account notes request because I wanted to see what the staff thought of my roleplay after quite a few years of play (and an equal number of years of fearing to read my account notes.) I did have see an account notes request as a step in the right direction of getting that fourth point somewhere down the line, but I was pretty much shocked when they gave it to me right away.

Now every time I log in I check my karma level because I'm half-expecting to see that it's been taken away. Don't get me wrong, that's not because I'm going around twinking horribly or breaking the rules or something, but I do feel like I idle too much, and engage in lazy RP, and fail to live up to the stellar roleplayers I interact with all the time in similar roles. (In case you didn't notice, I'm kind of insecure sometimes. I'm working on that.)

All that being said, I must be doing something right to be sitting where I am, with the karma level that I am, in the role that I am, despite having done very little leadership, having played in very few places, having seen very little of the world, and having taken so many breaks from the game. I'm not pretending that my karma is ridiculously high or anything--far from it. In fact, it's probably pretty attainable for most people. So, here goes, my advice about karma, for what it's worth, read it or leave it:

Beethoven's karma breakdown: rp x2, longevity x1, magick x1.

Hi, I'm Beethoven. I don't usually play leadership roles, and when I got my 4th karma point, I hadn't played any, even though when I had 3 karma I was sure I'd never hit my fourth until I'd played one, so I was wrong about that. Some people think you have to be beloved by staff to get karma. Well, I can't speak for above my karma level, but at least to get mid-karma you don't have to be. I am not particularly liked or disliked by staff as far as I know. I was surprised by how very few account notes I actually had. The ones that were there were on the positive side, but I didn't get the impression that I was making a big splash or anything.

- As for your magick karma point, it's not an absolutely essential one to get, but I assume it's about solving some issues that arise when you start playing magickers:

- You're probably going to be standing around a lot, practicing your spells. You're also going to be having to figure out how to creatively emote out what's going on with and around your character. You might pepper in some thinks and feels about how that element is affecting your character, or maybe the meditative state your character is entering, et cetera.

- You're going to be expected to take the virtual world into account. Most people will not take it well if you start casting around them or using cantrips. And if you are a gemmed, you should at the very least not expect a chipper reaction from the virtual population. You may even want to occasionally emote uncomfortable shuffling away, sneers, moving seats, and the like.

- Figure out how your character handles living in a world that hates them. How did they feel when they manifested? Did they deny it? Did they even have that luxury? Do they hate themselves? Do they accept it? Do they see it as a gift? Perhaps they come from a tribe that sees it as a gift? (Probably not going to be your first magicker's background, but hey, it's possible.)

- If your PC is not gemmed, a problem that may arise is how your character knows any magick words. There are different creative approaches to take, and choosing one that fits the setting, your character's personality, and the game's approach to magick could probably help earn you some notice, but I don't want to speak for staff or anything.

Some people are asking how you could possibly know what to do if you have never played a magicker before. The answer is that you don't know what to do...you just feel it out. I had no idea what I was doing when I first started playing Arm. I made all sorts of terrible blunders trying to blindly feel my way through an unfamiliar world. If you fail, you just try again when you get another chance. And really, magick isn't that hard. There are a thousand different approaches you can take and so long as you remember its place in the world you should be all right. Also, being in a magicker community probably helps a lot.

[Saellyn]

Here are some glorious notes from Saellyn's requests:

Abusive of situations regarding code, either over emoting for small coded injuries and blaming others, or doing things like raising and lowering barrier to make themselves pass out. - 1/01/12

Don't trust this guy. He's also involved in discussion of the game, metagaming in an OOC medium. If it continues, ban will ensue. - 7/16/10 After some thought, I'm banning the account for a week anyway. They know better, I warned their compatriots that if they continue, I am going to punish them and anyone involved. - 7/16/10

Based on their tendency to chat with practically anyone via OOC means, I still do not trust them anywhere near a sponsored role or any important role whatsoever. - 5/19/11

Set karma to 0, While "interesting", his playstyle does not match up with a concept of trust, IC'ly or OOC'ly. He just doesn't get it. - 6/16/10


You have an idea now what kind of person I was 3, 4 years ago. And then, this happened:

Set karma to 1, 1x longevity. - 3/17/14.


So, I went from the guy who talked with practically anyone via OOC means, abused code, broke documentation to being the guy who at least makes an -attempt- to fucking do things right and not break the docs. Even if I do break them now and then, I've turned over a new leaf and they noticed me for that. I still don't report regularly, but if I'm about to do something major (like wreck somebodies face), usually they get a wish up ahead of time, or immediately after, and I'm pretty sure I almost always put in a report or something explaining why (to be fair, I RARELY do this. I don't kill many people).

[Beethoven]

I have talked to Saellyn a bit (although not recently) and he seems like a good chap to me. He admits his past mistakes and when I start bitching about minor things, as I am wont to do, he is good at putting things in perspective. I would give him 1x karma for real talk.

[seidhr]

That's not a bad idea, you really should lose your dwarf option when you gain your first karma point....


JUST KIDDING DWARF PLAYERS.  I can't cope with your ruff circle.