Brawl Code (Split from RAT)

[Saellyn]

I will say, I think brawling should do more damage, even if it's stun damage.

The problem with stun damage is simple. If you KO a guy, you now have carte blanche to drag him off wherever the fuck you want. Lack of resistance of subdue ignores crimcode.


So, if you want the ability to pwn somebodies face in a brawl and KO them, THAT has to be removed or changed.

[Desertman]

I will say, I think brawling should do more damage, even if it's stun damage.

The problem with stun damage is simple. If you KO a guy, you now have carte blanche to drag him off wherever the fuck you want. Lack of resistance of subdue ignores crimcode.


So, if you want the ability to pwn somebodies face in a brawl and KO them, THAT has to be removed or changed.

This is a good point.

I think we could change the code around no-save subdue to take this into account.

Giving someone the old "Subdue", even if they are passed out, could still incriminate you if they do not have "No-Save Subdue" active.

Dragging off someone you don't know who is knocked out should still raise some eyebrows.

This would make kidnapping people a bit more difficult for other scenarios I suppose. I'm sure someone has sapped someone to kidnap them in the past. This would make that kind of wonky.

Interesting thought though. Thanks for pointing that out.

[X-D]

I think we are as well.

Just not so sure on defining brawl as it currently stands.....I mean, It is mutual agreed combat, anybody could ask the staff on that point.

I also understand and agree with some that think this should be replaced, at least in certain places.

But being that it is mutual agreed combat, I take exception with all these people talking about pouring shit or that staying seated is a defense against a fight, It is not, If you want to fight, either wield a weapon and type kill or hit or no weapon and type kill. Being seated will not protect them from that, they need not agree to it either.

But "brawl code" As it currently stands is a structured fight, therefore agreed on rules...And so, mutual agreed combat...Essentually a boxing match or MMA fight or whatever, But in any of these cases, somebody can go...Um, No, I do not want to enter the ring "Staying seated".


Eh, it should not be too hard to add the subdue caveat to brawl coded rooms.

[Desertman]

I think we are as well.

Just not so sure on defining brawl as it currently stands.....I mean, It is mutual agreed combat, anybody could ask the staff on that point.

It absolutely currently is and that is exactly what I hate about it and want to change.

If you change this one aspect, suddenly people won't resort to power emoting dumping drinks on people and crap, because.....they can just pop them in the mouth (or attempt to anyways).

The power-emoting you see is a result of the "Stool Forcefield" coming into play. Someone refuses to stand to fight you. How do you work around that? Realistically, you would still just pop them in the mouth, but they have this awkward unrealistic "Stool Forcefield". So what do you do? That is where people start in with all of the power-emoting crap. (I don't like it either.)

[Saellyn]

You may think that pouring red sun on someone is akin to a bath.


I think having any kind of alcohol poured onto you is bad.

[Barzalene]

I will say, I think brawling should do more damage, even if it's stun damage.

The problem with stun damage is simple. If you KO a guy, you now have carte blanche to drag him off wherever the fuck you want. Lack of resistance of subdue ignores crimcode.


So, if you want the ability to pwn somebodies face in a brawl and KO them, THAT has to be removed or changed.

I feel like you are all seeing something I don't. Cause I feel like - so if I'm losing and I have no friends to watch my back, I can run or diengage or beg for mercy or I might get knocked out and then really bad shit happens.
That's scary. That's a win. My PC could die! They could lose all their stuff! I don't even have to leave the gates! Awesome.

[hopeandsorrow]

Hope has not even read or understood the thread...sad.

Understand it just find, In fact I like the brawl code thread.

Your thinly veiled insult really added to the discussion as well!

[Desertman]

I will say, I think brawling should do more damage, even if it's stun damage.

The problem with stun damage is simple. If you KO a guy, you now have carte blanche to drag him off wherever the fuck you want. Lack of resistance of subdue ignores crimcode.


So, if you want the ability to pwn somebodies face in a brawl and KO them, THAT has to be removed or changed.

I feel like you are all seeing something I don't. Cause I feel like - so if I'm losing and I have no friends to watch my back, I can run or diengage or beg for mercy or I might get knocked out and then really bad shit happens.
That's scary. That's a win. My PC could die! They could lose all their stuff! I don't even have to leave the gates! Awesome.

I personally like this idea too, but, you have to consider that the current "Carebear" system of having to agree to be part of "mutual combat" before it can happen probably only exists because a lot of people hate the idea of having to deal with bad things happening to their characters.

The only reason it's as "soft" as it is now, most likely, is because it would create a lot of butthurt to have it the way you have stated above. (I personally love it, but I understand a lot of people wouldn't.)

I understand that, and while I don't like it, I am open to finding a good middle ground to work around it.

[X-D]

Not really Hope.

But the point I am trying to get across...to pretty much everybody but Dman it seems is that The STOOL IS NOT PROTECTING YOU FROM A FIGHT.

The stool is simply the coded way of saying, I do not agree to step into the ring.

It does not Protect you from the big scary bynner or anybody else. If that Bynner want to hit you, HE CAN.


In fact, I would argue that The stool and brawl code actually protect that blowhard not so scary bynner more then anything. Which is why I actually agree that the entire deal should be reworked.

Still, I will try this one more time. Fighting in a tavern or the city is ILLEGAL.

Brawling, when all parties agree is NOT illegal.

NOTHING is stopping you from punching that guy sitting on the stool, nothing at all.

[Beethoven]

If someone refused to stand up from their stool, I would honestly just emote attempting to punch them in the back of the head. That is not a power emote, because it gives them an opportunity to dodge. A sane person will probably stand up after that. Is that bad form? It doesn't seem like it would be. I don't think the soldiers would realistically be expected to go nuts because I just took a swing at a person in a seated position.

[Barzalene]

If someone refused to stand up from their stool, I would honestly just emote attempting to punch them in the back of the head. That is not a power emote, because it gives them an opportunity to dodge. A sane person will probably stand up after that. Is that bad form? It doesn't seem like it would be. I don't think the soldiers would realistically be expected to go nuts because I just took a swing at a person in a seated position.

Yeah.

[Beethoven]

OK, well, I'll just do it anyway and let it be bad form, because having to ineptly flail around and beg some idiot to stand up while they primly sip their ale and chat about current events is stupid. Or maybe I'll try to grab them by their collar and attempt to pull them up. There is literally no reason why I should not realistically be able to do either of those things in the Gaj.

[Saellyn]

I will say, I think brawling should do more damage, even if it's stun damage.

The problem with stun damage is simple. If you KO a guy, you now have carte blanche to drag him off wherever the fuck you want. Lack of resistance of subdue ignores crimcode.


So, if you want the ability to pwn somebodies face in a brawl and KO them, THAT has to be removed or changed.

I feel like you are all seeing something I don't. Cause I feel like - so if I'm losing and I have no friends to watch my back, I can run or diengage or beg for mercy or I might get knocked out and then really bad shit happens.
That's scary. That's a win. My PC could die! They could lose all their stuff! I don't even have to leave the gates! Awesome.

No. You're not seeing it.

At the point of knockout, every guard ever ignores the fact that you exist when you are subdued and summarily dragged out the gates to be murdered, or dragged to a dark corner. From a bar. Where everyone is there to witness.


That is retarded.

[Saellyn]

OK, well, I'll just do it anyway and let it be bad form, because having to ineptly flail around and beg some idiot to stand up while they primly sip their ale and chat about current events is stupid. Or maybe I'll try to grab them by their collar and attempt to pull them up. There is literally no reason why I should not realistically be able to do either of those things in the Gaj.

I'll emote trying to bounce your snobby, prim, ale-sipping face off the bar instead of punch you. That's MUCH more effective!

[Barzalene]

I will say, I think brawling should do more damage, even if it's stun damage.

The problem with stun damage is simple. If you KO a guy, you now have carte blanche to drag him off wherever the fuck you want. Lack of resistance of subdue ignores crimcode.


So, if you want the ability to pwn somebodies face in a brawl and KO them, THAT has to be removed or changed.

I feel like you are all seeing something I don't. Cause I feel like - so if I'm losing and I have no friends to watch my back, I can run or diengage or beg for mercy or I might get knocked out and then really bad shit happens.
That's scary. That's a win. My PC could die! They could lose all their stuff! I don't even have to leave the gates! Awesome.

No. You're not seeing it.

At the point of knockout, every guard ever ignores the fact that you exist when you are subdued and summarily dragged out the gates to be murdered, or dragged to a dark corner. From a bar. Where everyone is there to witness.


That is retarded.

I'm retarded. I'm ok with that

[Saellyn]

No. You are not retarded. That is not what I'm saying.


I'm saying that the idea someone can KO you and drag you out of a bar is retarded. At THAT point you're criminally kidnapping somebody.

[Beethoven]

I agree, and it's also dumb that if you try to actually sleep in the tavern dorms, like people are supposed to be virtually doing all the time, you'll frequently wake up naked and broke. But that is another story and will be told another time.

[Delirium]

If you're trying to fight someone who is unwilling to fight, use the actual "kill" command. Armed or unarmed is up to you.

[Barzalene]

I do see your point. I both agree and disagree. More on that after work.

[X-D]

OK, well, I'll just do it anyway and let it be bad form, because having to ineptly flail around and beg some idiot to stand up while they primly sip their ale and chat about current events is stupid. Or maybe I'll try to grab them by their collar and attempt to pull them up. There is literally no reason why I should not realistically be able to do either of those things in the Gaj.

This type of thing would be funny if it was not so sad.....Oh Wait, I get it now.

It is not the guy on the stool that is the wimp/snot/douchebag/coward It is the guy who is to big a pussy to go punch him that wants the brawl code protection.

Sorry, my mistake, carry on.


EDIT
(not speaking to Dman or Delirium here since they get it.)

[Saellyn]

OK, well, I'll just do it anyway and let it be bad form, because having to ineptly flail around and beg some idiot to stand up while they primly sip their ale and chat about current events is stupid. Or maybe I'll try to grab them by their collar and attempt to pull them up. There is literally no reason why I should not realistically be able to do either of those things in the Gaj.

This type of thing would be funny if it was not so sad.....Oh Wait, I get it now.

It is not the guy on the stool that is the wimp/snot/douchebag/coward It is the guy who is to big a pussy to go punch him that wants the brawl code protection.

Sorry, my mistake, carry on.


EDIT
(not speaking to Dman or Delirium here since they get it.)

Bee isn't replying to you.

[X-D]

Eh, never said he was, Which is why I said "this type of thing".

I simply used it as an example.

[Saellyn]

Right. Misread. Sorry. You were referring to the guys who said brawl code is protecting the brawl starter <_<

[Beethoven]

The guy in the stool is only a coward if he is acting as if he is safe from your punches because he knows his assailant will likely be wtfpwned by waves of soldiers if she uses the kill command, while she is codedly unable to use the hit command, just because his ass is currently planted on a stool.

I think she should probably get the brawl code protection, because it's a rough place where fights happen all the time. And why shouldn't you be able to at least try to pull that person up by the collar or kick their stool out from under them? Why is that suddenly worthy of soldier intervention?

[Armaddict]

I will say, I think brawling should do more damage, even if it's stun damage.

The problem with stun damage is simple. If you KO a guy, you now have carte blanche to drag him off wherever the fuck you want. Lack of resistance of subdue ignores crimcode.


So, if you want the ability to pwn somebodies face in a brawl and KO them, THAT has to be removed or changed.

I feel like you are all seeing something I don't. Cause I feel like - so if I'm losing and I have no friends to watch my back, I can run or diengage or beg for mercy or I might get knocked out and then really bad shit happens.
That's scary. That's a win. My PC could die! They could lose all their stuff! I don't even have to leave the gates! Awesome.

I personally like this idea too, but, you have to consider that the current "Carebear" system of having to agree to be part of "mutual combat" before it can happen probably only exists because a lot of people hate the idea of having to deal with bad things happening to their characters.

The only reason it's as "soft" as it is now, most likely, is because it would create a lot of butthurt to have it the way you have stated above. (I personally love it, but I understand a lot of people wouldn't.)

I understand that, and while I don't like it, I am open to finding a good middle ground to work around it.

Oh please.  The code in this case is not implemented for the purpose you want, you want it retooled, but utterly confuse 'bad things happening to my character' with 'players in this game abuse things'.

I have pointed out, time and time again, that the ENTIRE REASON FOR THIS THREAD is because people have ALREADY twisted the purpose of existing code to try and make it into something else.  Now I'm saying don't change it into that something else, because people will keep on twisting it as far as it will go.  You inherently trust players, I on the other hand do not.  This is in the middle of a tavern.  You say 'player complaint', I say the thing that results in a player complaint still cost someone their perhaps long lived, long loved character to an utterly bullshit use of this changed code, and since it is automatically in a public place, there is no chance they will get it back.  Having an abuser punished never makes up for the feeling of loss at the hands of abuse.

But.  People like me just want it soft because we don't like bad things happening.  It's not like I've lost 30 and 40 day characters through roleplaying forgetfulness under pressure, even though I had the command aliased.  It's not like I've intentionally given my character away because circumstances of the game demanded it.  Little off-handed insults like this?  They make you seem like a giant baby who's upset because you have to do things the old fashioned way:  Pretend that the templarate has a monopoly on justice in the city.

Get the mutual agreement, or it's not a brawl.  It's a fight.  Go ahead and make fights, but make plans to get soldiers out of the equation.  Try being smart about it, instead of insisting that because this is armageddon, mindless ability to cause harm to anyone you want is pretty much the way it has to be to be accurate.