Brawl Code (Split from RAT)

[Desertman]

I can think of four times I have drawn blades to stop a brawl. All four times it ended up with me fighting them on the sand after a challenge. One time it ended with me using their body as pillow with Gage Gritshaw. (Which was hilarious.)

The result is far from the same.

I can't remember the number of times I have seen, "Refuse to standers", and it never resulted in anything awesome. Just a painful to watch awkward unrealistic scene.

The difference is that in those cases, those blades were drawn as an invitation for escalation, not merely to prevent the brawling.  If the forcefield is changed, so will the occurrence of drawn weapons...only with the effect of 'No, I'm not challenging you, but I'm going to sit in my seat, dammit.'  Because that's where we'd pushed it to.

I'd argue that the refuse to stander is indeed awkward and unrealistic...but it's just as much the fault of the instigator for making the assumption that if they stood up and used hit, the other guy would just hop up and agree to do it, because that's what -they- want to happen.  Again...the point I'm trying to make is that brawl code is a pretty simple bit of code, not meant to allow doling of justice in a rough bar, but to allow non-lethal combat between willing people.  Changing the willing part results in complications, including the change in non-lethal, which the results are more evident and clear.

The acknowledgement of the playerbase that they can try to brawl, but may be turned down, is very needed.  I'd suggest, instead:

say (jerking to his feet after %breed statement) You wanna fucking go?!

If (breed stands and/or attempts brawl)
   brawl
else
  emote surges forward angrily, but is stopped by passersby/friends/an off-duty soldier.
  say (scowling) Fucking lucky, you little twat.  Talk all you want, but you aren't willing to back it up.

In other words, instead of treating it like a given, test the water for the scene progression, rather than trying to yank the reins.

It's just a matter of taste then and neither of us will change our minds.

I prefer the option to yank the reins. Some people do not. I agree to disagree with you on the grounds of personal preference.

[Saellyn]

Seriously just challenge the asshole and call them a bitch if they won't stand up. If they won't fight you, slander their fucking name. Just because you can't brawledly (codedly, brawledly, get it?) beat somebodies ass does not mean we need to complain about it here. If it's that much of a problem, player complaint, else slander their fucking name for being a coward.

[Desertman]

We are presenting useful ideas for changes to the brawl code to make for more desirable scenes in this thread. One issue mentioned was the unrealistic and awkward scenario that comes up from time to time with people who refuse to stand to simply avoid the rough and tumble nature of the tavern.

Slandering their name is a great option with our current system.

[Inks]

Why would you player complaint something that could be handled IC?

And is, no doubt.

There is always room for improvement in the code. As robust as the Arm code is (pretty darn good overall).

[Saellyn]

I'm just saying if people take a huge issue with situations playing out unrealistically, they can take it to the complaints in the request tool. If someone refuses to brawl you, actively call the guy a bitch and ruin his name for being too scared to put up his dukes with you.

[X-D]

Here is the main problem with drawing a weapon.

It is Illegal in just about every place that has the brawl code.

Sitting on a stool on the other hand is not.

[MeTekillot]

Do what I do and buy beers and bottles and emote pouring them all over the dude who has decided to sit in a stationary spot to avoid fighting you.

[X-D]

Which is power emoting...and against the rules...Not to mention just plain bad RP.

That and, Many of you are thinking of this the wrong way...Oh sure, it is called "brawl code" But in reality it is more like mutual combat. The powers that be, Be they In game or out, have decided that if people have decided to fight without weapons and without intent to kill,  in certain areas, they will let it happen.

If somebody is unwilling to engage in this mutual combat, You can still force the issue, just be prepared to pay the price.

Now, like I said before, I do not brawl with my PC's any more because the code is too simplistic, It only checks on 2 things, and those things are not armor, size, race or stats.

So, with the current brawl code...Well, let me give an example which I really did see.

You have two bynners, One HG warrior wearing really nice heavy armor, the other a celf warrior, the celf is a long time trooper, the HG is far newer.

The elf decides he wants to box the HG, So they do. Now it was amusing to watch, The elf was landing every single punch and was punching like 7-1 verses the HG, But not a single landed punch did any damage or stun. This goes on for around 8 RL minutes then the HG finally lands a single body shot and the elf was KO.

Now, a few game days go by, byn goes to the gaj, Elf starts brawl with HG and suddenly He is a GOD...Doubling a heavily armored HG over with a punch, throwing 2000lbs of HG along with likely around 500lbs of armor into walls, etc etc etc.

It was actually nearly game breaking to watch.

So yes, I will keep to my stool and file player complaints if you power emote.

[MeTekillot]

Well, I mean, it's not really power emoting if it's exactly what's going to happen. If I pour a bottle of Red Sun on your stool, and you are sitting on that stool, logic dictates that I am going to pour Red Sun on you unless you rise from your stool.

[MeTekillot]

Unless you emote doing that thing where you grab under the seat of your stool and like, gyrate and rock away from the stream of Red Sun or something.

[X-D]

Or something, that is the point, Power emote is when you emote doing something and it happens without the other person being able to do anything about it.

So...Power emote, Amos dumps a bottle of red sun on Maliks head.

Not power emote, Amos raises a bottle of red sun over Maliks head and starts pouring.

With the second one Malik can respond.

Power emote, As Amos begins pouring, Malik punches him in the nuts.

Non power emote...As amos begins pouring malik aims a punch to his nuts.

Again, it allows a response, and amos has the choice, pour and take the cock knock or stop and dodge away.

In other words, unless you are staff or maybe a HG with max subdue skill subduing a dwarf...then YOU do not get to say that is going to happen, that is the VERY definition of a power emote.

Edit
Heh, I just thought about that scene...
And A blood encrusted dirty sweaty commoner in the gaj would likely laugh that you just paid to bathe him in red sun...Thanks Amos, I have not had a bath in 12 years ...You spent money on that, yea, you my bitch baby.

[Desertman]

Rough taverns in Zalanthas are absolutely the sort of place where people get popped in the mouth without expecting it on a regular basis. Undesirables probably get beat up for no other reason than being undesirable and in the presence of very mean spiteful drunks. The weak probably get pushed and smack around constantly if they show up and aren't properly prepared.

I do not believe all bar fights in Zalanthas are between two willing and mutually understanding and rational combatants.

That is my point of view.

[Marauder Moe]

To be fair to our awesome playerbase, I've seen far more characters stand up and take a beating (or run away) than I've seen sit in their stool-shield-bubble and keep mouthing off.


I don't think it's a good idea to change the thresholds for brawl/crim code until both systems have been upgraded to be more nuanced. 

But I do think that brawl code as-is, but with different echoes, could be expanded to a lot more places.  Southside alleys, maybe smaller streets, the street just outside the Gaj, and every room in the Byn compounds.

[Desertman]

To be fair to our awesome playerbase, I've seen far more characters stand up and take a beating (or run away) than I've seen sit in their stool-shield-bubble and keep mouthing off.

Agreed.

[Barzalene]

I will backtrack and say my issues with brawl are not code based. I just dislike all the cheeriness. Not that all happiness is bad. I just think there should always be an edge of danger, hovering in the background no matter where you are in the game. I'm not crying g poor RP. I'm not even going to say my vision of what the game should be is better than someone else's. I will say, that the way things are it strays into the land of silly. I'd like some scary to balance that.

[racurtne]

I agree with Barzalene. Instead of doing   when I see a brawl, I want to be doing this  .

Edited: Danger zone

[Desertman]

I agree with Barzalene. Instead of doing  when I see a brawl, I want to be doing this  .

+1

I just want them to be a little more edgy than watching someone skin a scrab.

[X-D]

Somehow Dman, I don't think you have ever actually been to a rough tavern/bar IRL...because that is EXACTLY where you expect some idiot to try and pop you...and if you do go to those places, you stay on your toes.


By all means though, if you are sure you are hidden and manage to sneak up on the guy, feel free to power emote all you want.

BUT, if you are not, then act in a realistic manner and expect others to be doing the same...IE, They know they are in a rough bar.

Also, we are not talking about "ALL" bar fights, we are talking about brawl code. When two or more people Agree to get up and fight it out with no weapons other then tables and beer mugs.

Anybody is quite welcome to try any other method of popping somebody, It is not against the game rules, and in some places not against any rules at all...But if it is, as I said before, be ready to pay the piper.

[hopeandsorrow]

I feel so safe at my lumpy dragon table, as long as I refuse to stand the mean bynner's can't get me.

Yes, refusal stand, ultimate defense.

[Desertman]

Somehow Dman, I don't think you have ever actually been to a rough tavern/bar IRL...because that is EXACTLY where you expect some idiot to try and pop you...and if you do go to those places, you stay on your toes.


By all means though, if you are sure you are hidden and manage to sneak up on the guy, feel free to power emote all you want.

BUT, if you are not, then act in a realistic manner and expect others to be doing the same...IE, They know they are in a rough bar.

I get popped in the mouth enough regularly already. I don't need to go hang out with goofy man-child-drunks to get that.  

I don't want to power-emote anything. I want the brawl code changed to allow other options. Please see the rest of the thread. (I don't know where that came from.)

I believe it is entirely realistic in Zalanthas that people would get attacked by drunks in Zalanthan taverns while not expecting it/not seeing it coming for no other reason than....angry Zalanthan drunks.

If you disagree, I am fine with that.

[X-D]

Hope has not even read or understood the thread...sad.

[Desertman]

I feel so safe at my lumpy dragon table, as long as I refuse to stand the mean bynner's can't get me.

Yes, refusal stand, ultimate defense.

Pretty much.

[X-D]

Dman, the only point I actually disagree with is the "not expecting" Part...If you are not expecting it then you really should not be in that bar to begin with.

Fact is, IF you do, knowingly go into a rough place you EXPECT EVERYTHING. Now, it is possible that even being paranoid and on your toes that somebody might manage to surprise you with a beer mug to the back of the head, but you cannot say you were not expecting that possibility.

And again, In game, If you are capable of catching somebody by surprise that way code wise, then more power to you.


But Brawl code is not that, Combat is its own code. Brawl code IS agreed on up front combat...by the very nature of the code itself. And that is that.


Of course we actually do agree I think that brawl code is feeble at best, and the game would be better served with a mutation of combat code replacing it...as I suggested several pages back.


Edit,
And it is no defense, there is nothing to defend against, You are simply NOT agreeing to brawl....Sitting at your stool will not stop somebody from attacking you, in fact, it will help them.

[Desertman]

Dman, the only point I actually disagree with is the "not expecting" Part...If you are not expecting it then you really should not be in that bar to begin with.

Fact is, IF you do, knowingly go into a rough place you EXPECT EVERYTHING. Now, it is possible that even being paranoid and on your toes that somebody might manage to surprise you with a beer mug to the back of the head, but you cannot say you were not expecting that possibility.

And again, In game, If you are capable of catching somebody by surprise that way code wise, then more power to you.


But Brawl code is not that, Combat is its own code. Brawl code IS agreed on up front combat...by the very nature of the code itself. And that is that.


Of course we actually do agree I think that brawl code is feeble at best, and the game would be better served with a mutation of combat code replacing it...as I suggested several pages back.

I understand what Brawl code is.

I have said that repeatedly. I absolutely agree with you on what the brawl code currently is and does.

My idea is to change it. My interest in debating what it currently is, doesn't exist, because I agree with you on that.

I also agree completely with your idea on replacing it with an iteration of the unarmed combat code. I think I even said that after your last post.

I would love that.

I think we are in extreme agreement with each other.  

Now, You want to make me happy, Get rid of the "brawl code" Make it so "hit" ONLY works if unarmed, Make it real combat though with automatic mercy at 50% HP, and still allow KO.

You can even make it so that it still only works in the same places current brawl code does.

I bet you that then you would see FAR fewer stupid fights.

People would not be able to RP not being messed up if they really were, and if they did it would then be complaint worthy.

100% + over 9,000

[CodeMaster]

Heh, I just thought about that scene...
And A blood encrusted dirty sweaty commoner in the gaj would likely laugh that you just paid to bathe him in red sun...Thanks Amos, I have not had a bath in 12 years ...You spent money on that, yea, you my bitch baby.

Code Select Expand


> em angrily pours ~bottle out above %man head
The misshappen old man angrily pours his bottle marked "Red Sun" out above the dusky, dark-eyed man's head.

The dusky, dark-eyed man chuckles and tilts his head back, opening his mouth and drinking liberally.

> ooc shitmugged