Start all skills at low journeyman

[Fujikoma]

Seems fair, right? Novice is fucking unusable, at best... fuck, journeyman is too. We've got anti-twink measures in place to discourage the grind, why do we start off so miserable at the things our PCs were born to do? Fuck the grind, fuck branching, especially parry, why does that have to be such a murder of my time? Give all guilds parry to varrying degrees. Well, except Merchant, they're already OP with their master-crafts and all.

You have to get to 5-10 days played before you're competent at anything, well, besides mudsex.

[Desertman]

Seems fair, right? Novice is fucking unusable, at best... fuck, journeyman is too. We've got anti-twink measures in place to discourage the grind, why do we start off so miserable at the things our PCs were born to do? Fuck the grind, fuck branching, especially parry, why does that have to be such a murder of my time? Give all guilds parry to varrying degrees. Well, except Merchant, they're already OP with their master-crafts and all.

You have to get to 5-10 days played before you're competent at anything, well, besides mudsex.

Do not want. I prefer things the way they are.

What I really want is for the system to go back to when you couldn't see your skill levels.

I preferred that. I feel like the current "skill level seeable" culture has created a playerbase of, "If it's not master level, it's shit.".


I preferred only knowing how good I was by knowing how good I was. I don't like being able to see the numbers.

Also keep in mind if you make everything start at journeyman, all that means is journeyman just became the new novice for all playable reasons.

[Barsook]

No, because Arm focuses on roleplay not grinding.

[Fujikoma]

Well, it would be nice if we could trust new players, or, old players pretending to be new players to get around getting their ass banned... still, come on now, you've been playing, for how long? And, the grind really doesn't, well, for lack of a better word, grind on you? Fuck, you know, I really hate absolutely sucking at everything, but, someone disagrees.

[whitt]

One could use the skill bump app to push their appropriate skills up out of suck levels, no?

[Fujikoma]

You'll still suck, at great personal cost. I think a higher initial starting skill, like, because you're a badass desert nomad, would suffice.

[Delirium]

I think the frustration with starting out so shitty stems from the fact that this is a permadeath MUD.

Once you've gone through the grind a few times, it becomes a real chore.

That said, bumping the skills up across the board smacks of power-creep, where journeyman is the new novice.

It's something to think about though.

[slvrmoontiger]

Seems fair, right? Novice is fucking unusable, at best... fuck, journeyman is too. We've got anti-twink measures in place to discourage the grind, why do we start off so miserable at the things our PCs were born to do? Fuck the grind, fuck branching, especially parry, why does that have to be such a murder of my time? Give all guilds parry to varrying degrees. Well, except Merchant, they're already OP with their master-crafts and all.

You have to get to 5-10 days played before you're competent at anything, well, besides mudsex.

Do not want. I prefer things the way they are.

What I really want is for the system to go back to when you couldn't see your skill levels.

I preferred that. I feel like the current "skill level seeable" culture has created a playerbase of, "If it's not master level, it's shit.".


I preferred only knowing how good I was by knowing how good I was. I don't like being able to see the numbers.

Also keep in mind if you make everything start at journeyman, all that means is journeyman just became the new novice for all playable reasons.

How are crafters supposed to know if they are able to master craft items if you can't see skills? Please don't say submit a request to staff asking if you can create a master crafted item, because that will just overload staff. They are already busy enough they don't need that hassle of answering if someone is able to create a master craft or not.

[Fujikoma]

Sorry, folks, I don't want to start off "suck" at everything, apparently I did a lot of that with my merchant, I had to, or they would have starved to death. I enjoyed myself, but yeah, after so many times novice to journeyman REALLY starts to blow ass.

[Fujikoma]

Start all skills at Jman, it's just low enough to avoid branching, and just high enough to be fucking useful... anyone who enjoys playing an idiot will not be impacted as the will, obviously, be roleplaying a fucking idiot.

[Fujikoma]

Triple posting like a fool, but, yeah, I don't know how much of the playerbase likes playing idiots, well, besides me. Like, all those J-man skills are not going to do me any good.

[Inks]

Do not want, either. This is a MUD. The grind is part of it like it or not.

[valeria]

Seems fair, right? Novice is fucking unusable, at best... fuck, journeyman is too. We've got anti-twink measures in place to discourage the grind, why do we start off so miserable at the things our PCs were born to do? Fuck the grind, fuck branching, especially parry, why does that have to be such a murder of my time? Give all guilds parry to varrying degrees. Well, except Merchant, they're already OP with their master-crafts and all.

You have to get to 5-10 days played before you're competent at anything, well, besides mudsex.

Do not want. I prefer things the way they are.

What I really want is for the system to go back to when you couldn't see your skill levels.

I preferred that. I feel like the current "skill level seeable" culture has created a playerbase of, "If it's not master level, it's shit.".


I preferred only knowing how good I was by knowing how good I was. I don't like being able to see the numbers.

Also keep in mind if you make everything start at journeyman, all that means is journeyman just became the new novice for all playable reasons.

How are crafters supposed to know if they are able to master craft items if you can't see skills? Please don't say submit a request to staff asking if you can create a master crafted item, because that will just overload staff. They are already busy enough they don't need that hassle of answering if someone is able to create a master craft or not.

Not that I like the idea of going back to invisible skill levels, but the game could always just send the character a message when they've reached master level.

>You now think you could make original designs in (skill).

... or something.

[Desertman]

Seems fair, right? Novice is fucking unusable, at best... fuck, journeyman is too. We've got anti-twink measures in place to discourage the grind, why do we start off so miserable at the things our PCs were born to do? Fuck the grind, fuck branching, especially parry, why does that have to be such a murder of my time? Give all guilds parry to varrying degrees. Well, except Merchant, they're already OP with their master-crafts and all.

You have to get to 5-10 days played before you're competent at anything, well, besides mudsex.

Do not want. I prefer things the way they are.

What I really want is for the system to go back to when you couldn't see your skill levels.

I preferred that. I feel like the current "skill level seeable" culture has created a playerbase of, "If it's not master level, it's shit.".


I preferred only knowing how good I was by knowing how good I was. I don't like being able to see the numbers.

Also keep in mind if you make everything start at journeyman, all that means is journeyman just became the new novice for all playable reasons.

How are crafters supposed to know if they are able to master craft items if you can't see skills? Please don't say submit a request to staff asking if you can create a master crafted item, because that will just overload staff. They are already busy enough they don't need that hassle of answering if someone is able to create a master craft or not.

This is actually how it was done back in the day, but I agree, it would be a pain these days. Our playbase is a lot bigger than it used to be.

I would be fine with crafting skills keeping a visual skill level. They generally aren't used to determine if it is "time to kill someone".

[Fujikoma]

Do not want, either. This is a MUD. The grind is part of it like it or not.

... actually, no, think about it, give it some time, I mean, REALLY think about it, low Jman isn't enough to do anything, then again, I don't want any idiot twinks shitting all over my plots. Ok, maybe, jusy maaaaaybe novice is the best spot, but let's have this discussion.

[Harmless]

No, because I love being....harmless.

[Fujikoma]

No, because I love being....harmless.

... stop being so cute... I hate you.

[MeTekillot]

Skill bumps are nice, but don't you still have newbie off/def?

[Fujikoma]

Skill bumps are nice, but don't you still have newbie off/def?

Metekillot gets it, you do, you're still fucked from the get-go, just not AS fucked, shit, you just might add up to something one day!

[Fujikoma]

Also approve my fucking character app or I'm going to start posting to the GDB about it... Oh, godDAMNIT!

[Narf]

One alternative to this is to change the range so that novice skills are actually somewhat functional, but it still takes the same amount of time to reach master.

[wizturbo]

Skill bumps can do this.  Everyone can get journeyman in one weapon, and a bump to another skill, regardless of karma level.  Once you get some karma, you can bump a lot more things.  As for offense/defense, I really don't see why they can't be bumpable like any other combat skill, unless that's just a code constraint?  

[Fujikoma]

I'm going to bump your defense. Bend over.

[RogueGunslinger]

Starting all skills at Jman sounds a little silly. But in a way it makes perfect sense to me. You just have to take the success level from J-man skills and give them to novice skills, that way it still takes time to get from Journeyman to Master and you aren't maxed on all your skills in a week.

One alternative to this is to change the range so that novice skills are actually somewhat functional, but it still takes the same amount of time to reach master.

Exactly! It wasn't that long ago I was ranting about how it's bad game design to have novice-apprentice level skills be absolutely worthless like they are.

Lastly... Skill bumps rape face, yo. You don't need offense/defense raised. In fact, it's probably better for the grind NOT to raise them. Starting with weapons skills at or even just close to Journeyman is no joke. You will fuck people up. You will also probably end up plateauing on your skills much higher than you normally would, because your base offense is low enough to generate failures still.

[Down Under]

It'd be neat if all PCs at creation could pick a couple of skills they are 'decent' at, to reflect their background and time spent in Zalanthas virtually. Yes, you can use CGP to further boost skills, but if you're an assassin, you can bump sneak and hide, or if you're a warrior, you can bump rescue and disarm. The sort of thing that doesn't make you a wet-behind-the-ear so obviously when you step into the ring that first time.

Then again, skills aren't really hard to train, they just take a system and patience.