Would you leave the game if Allanak was made off-limits to players?

[MeTekillot]

Say that Nyr/Talia/Adhira/Nessalin decides to remove Allanak to consolidate the playerbase into the desolate hellscape of Tuluk. The steel dragon comes alive and razes Allanak to the ground.

Would be so disappointed that you'd leave the game?

[RogueGunslinger]

I don't think it's a good idea, but I also think it would be, in one way, good for the game. Over all it would be bad for the game though, thus the complicated answer.


Edit*
I would not leave the game. I think it's interesting to think of how many people would. Would you even notice they are gone with such a large concentration of people in other areas?

[Jihelu]

Only if players can opt in to fight the dragon, then I would leave if it didn't.
I don't even play there, but thats too much of an opportunity to miss.

[Rathustra]

time 2 see who is whiny baby

[Majikal]

What's Allanak?

[Talia]

Guess who can't play a PC in Allanak? This gal! 

[James de Monet]

One might contend that Allanak and the idea of it is so central to the idea of the game that Zalanthas would leave the game if Allanak were made off limits to players.  At least for a while.

[nauta]

I know this is probably a joke poll, butttt, my vote is the same as my vote vis-a-vis Tuluk, namely I think it'd be good for the game!  I guess I'm inclined to agree with people that a little consolidation of the city-based playerbase is in order, whether permanent or on a rolling basis.  Tuluk has just as much "stuff" (clans, shopping marts, breeds) as Allanak, as far as I can tell.

[manonfire]

Naaah. I think it'd be a cool experience to consolidate the playerbase for a few months, just to see what a fully-functioning city looks like.

[Semper]

I've loved Allanak ever since I joined, and I find it sad to see Tuluk getting so much more staff loving attention. T_T

[Patuk]

I think you might have started ww3 with that post.

[Semper]

I think you might have started ww3 with that post.

Heh, well this -is- an opinion thread... doesn't have to be necessarily true but that's how I feel.

[Patuk]

That's fair. I often do, too. I just don't think it's good for the metagame judging from what kind of effects it has.

[Rokal]

Same response as I made on the tuluk topic of the same subject.

I don't think it'd be good for the game even if the player base would be consolidated.

The allanak agaisnt tuluk thing is a central part of RP, and it makes it far better if people are invovled in both sides of that.

I wouldn't leave the game no, but I don't think it'd be good for RP.

Note; i haven't played in allanak yet.

[FantasyWriter]

I wouldn't mind seeing one (OR EVEN BOTH) cities closed for a temporary amount of time.
I've always thought it would be cool to place the story on pause for a while, or even hit the reset button once as an experiment and try something different for a little while.

Ideas
Hunger Games Ripoff:  Desert Play.  Everyone gets one new PC of the race/guild/sub of their choice with all skills branched and set to 50% of their guild max and released into a single region with all others closed off.  After the first week, massive earthquakes begin and the borders start closing in. One Chance Permadeath. Once dead, your "ghost" can wander around but not interact with the world other than direction commands and the shadow command.

There can be only one!: City Play.  Human warrior/slipknifes only.  Coded clones, the only difference being a unique sdesc.  Released in the ruins of one of the closed off cities of the game. One Chance Permadeath. Once dead, your "ghost" can wander around but not interact with the world other than direction commands and the shadow command.

I am Sparticus!: Spectatorless arena games. Once your PC dies, you can come back, but only as weak fodder NPCs or go to an OOC observation room as has been done in the past.



Capture the Flag with three teams: Team Allanak, Team Tuluk, and Team Desert.  
Team Allanak: Any Race Except Muls ... Warriors or Gemmed Elementalist ... Three Blue Robes, One Nilazi

Team Tuluk: Any Race Except Muls ... Warriors or Rogues ... Three Faithful Templars, One Psionocist

Team Desert: Any Race ... Can be Rangers or Elementalists ... Three Sorcerers w/ Two Paths of Knowledge each, No more than Three Muls

Map:  Allanak and Tuluk are separated by a desolate, city-sized no-man's-land and are interconnected by many dangerous underground caverns.
       To the west is a large area of oasis-scattered wasteland making up roughly half the map.  Small, defended breeches scatter the outer walls of the cities.
       Each zone has three bases.  No NPCs, except at city breach points.

Objective:  Each of the nine leaders is given a token representing their team.  In order to win, you must kill one leader from the other two teams and return their tokens to a single living leader in one of your bases (must be a base in your home region.

Rules:

• Each team is given a certain amount of time before being allowed into the game to choose a strategy and assign roles.
• No OOC coordination is permissible after gameplay begins.
• Non-permadeath. one hour (long play) or ten minutes (quickplay) after death, your PC is revived in their current room (characters in stasis can be moved using subdue).
• Leaders can only be revived if their token is retaken by one of their team and returned to any base in their zone.  
• Characters may not leave the game once it begins.  To properly go AFK, one should, if able, return to a base and guard the leader there.  
• Teams may capture an enemy base by being the only living characters in that room.
• Leaders may not leave their assigned base unless another base in their zone is available or another team's base has been taken by their team.
• Leaders may only travel by teleporting instantly to another base.  All leaders have this ability at not cost, but must have at least one living teammate and no living opponents in that room.
• If all three leaders are dead at any given time, the team suffers double move penalties until one is revived.
• One living leader must remain in their zone at all time, so long as your bases are not under enemy control.  If the last living leader in their own zone dies, another living leaders must return to a team home base.
• If all three bases are taken by a single opposing team, your team looses and is removed from play, unless a leader occupies an enemy base.
• Capturing all three of an opponents bases equates to having one of their tokens, if you do not possess one already.

Sorry, that last one got a little out of hand.

[ShaLeah]

I'd stop playing.

[Adhira]

I'd stop playing.

Interesting..... 

[FantasyWriter]

ShaLeah just got BURNED!

[ShaLeah]

I'd stop playing.

Interesting..... 

ShaLeah just got BURNED!

a) No way dude, Adhira loves me, hence why she gave me 8 karma.
b) They wouldn't do that to the game.
c) I WOULD leave the game because Allanak IS Armageddon to me (and lots more). Even with the enjoyable other places, without Nak it wouldn't be Arm. Hell I rejoiced when they finally put the kibosh on that dumb ass Arm II idea.

There is such a thing as losing the essence of a place. There's a reason why people form societies to restore buildings that are about to be remodeled by contractors who are just going to change everything. A reason they go to court and win. A reason for public outrage.

I'd even go as far as saying closing Allanak would result in more disgruntled ex players than jcarters website combined with Delerak's ... whatever.

[Adhira]

We only pick on the ones we love.

[FantasyWriter]

Man, was just hoping she would shut down Nak just to run Shal off.
We can only hope.

[Zoan]

I'd be pretty upset if anywhere was 'closed', to be honest. I have sentiment and attachment to all areas across the years.

[Pale Horse]

I'd probably play more.

While I love the game, I was one of those people who was looking forward to Arm II and digging the idea of having smaller cities and villages to play in.

Since it's not going to happen, I say we "nuke" both cities into ruins and force the few who survive to re-invent themselves and rebuild on the ashes.

[ShaLeah]

I'd probably play more.

While I love the game, I was one of those people who was looking forward to Arm II and digging the idea of having smaller cities and villages to play in.

Since it's not going to happen, I say we "nuke" both cities into ruins and force the few who survive to re-invent themselves and rebuild on the ashes.

WoWer.

[absurdist]

Naaah. I think it'd be a cool experience to consolidate the playerbase for a few months, just to see what a fully-functioning city looks like.

Agreed. I think it would improve the game, either way.

[Delirium]

Player consolidation would be neat. I've been thinking about it lately, though, and honestly, I think things are better in that regard than they ever have been.

It'd still be AWESOME to have everyone stuffed into a single city just to see what it feels like when every clan is full and all possible roles are filled with multiple options.

[Desertman]

If by off-limits you mean it was destroyed and the population was forced into smaller less "omnipotent" bases of power....then I would love it.

I voted based on that assumption as just making it "off limits" is silly in my opinion.

[hopeandsorrow]

No, would quit.
Forcing players to play in area's/roles they don't want to play is never a good idea.

IF I don't want to play there, I won't play there. If I did want to play a role or spot.. I would play that.

You can't dictate fun, ever, its stupid to try.

Also I don't believe the game or any game ever benefits from less options, it will only hurt the overall population.  You can't "Consolidate" you'll just half the population in one night.

[RogueGunslinger]

I feel games like Atonement proved that consolidation can work.

The recent work on Tuluk help to make it smaller and group people up more. I feel like that worked as well.

I don't think you can dictate fun, but I also don't think that's what consolidation is. Limiting options is not always a bad thing. Take for instance the fact that we're already incredibly limited in setting, technology, and magick. People like being in a desert world. Magick is scary and feared, world is desert, technology is very low, and people seek our game out over other because of that. '

I think there are very clear cases where less options = better. For instance if there were 3 or 4 big cities like Allanak, I think that would be very bad. At the end of the day the game is running on a skeleton crew, and has been for the entire time that I've played. Clans ebb and flow, and that's something we've always had to deal with, but it's not something I feel like is un-fixable. It would be nice to see what the game would be like if all the major clans in a city had players in them, with a bustling indie population. Consolidating also means more people at all hours, basically extending peak hours in both directions. In stead of 1-2 other people you run into off-peak it could be 3-4, which makes a world of difference.

[Lizzie]

Consolidating isn't going to solve the problem (real or perceived) either. Within the past month, I recall logging in one evening to see 72 people besides myself logged into the game. I sat in a popular hang-out spot for over a RL hour and didn't see a single PC the entire time. Couldn't find the minds of anyone my character would normally try to find. Either they had barrier up better than my contact could break through, or they weren't logged in.

If someone can encounter that problem with 72 people logged in, and only 2 cities and less than a handful of outposts/villages that are readily PC accessible, then reducing the accessibility even more isn't going to do much. Unless you reduced it to one city, one outpost, forced everyone into only half a dozen clans - at which point the game would close due to lack of interest.

[John]

Why is there such a big push for consolidation? I'm presuming there isn't and it's just discussing out of interest. However back in 2003 had around 40-55 players on during peak hours. We now have 55-72 players on during peak hours. That's 1/3 more players today then we did back in the 2003 and yet we have less starting locations by 1 (halflings and gith were available sporadically).

[hopeandsorrow]

Consolidating isn't going to solve the problem (real or perceived) either. Within the past month, I recall logging in one evening to see 72 people besides myself logged into the game. I sat in a popular hang-out spot for over a RL hour and didn't see a single PC the entire time. Couldn't find the minds of anyone my character would normally try to find. Either they had barrier up better than my contact could break through, or they weren't logged in.

If someone can encounter that problem with 72 people logged in, and only 2 cities and less than a handful of outposts/villages that are readily PC accessible, then reducing the accessibility even more isn't going to do much. Unless you reduced it to one city, one outpost, forced everyone into only half a dozen clans - at which point the game would close due to lack of interest.

Couldn't of said it better myself.  I also ran into that issue, and empty bar, with 60 odd people on.

But the issue is rather self correcting, there is an ebb and flow and requires the player on be patient in a given area before you find yourself embroiled in stuff.

I like having options in terms of location and variety.  If Allanak isn't popping this week, it will be the next.  If Tuluk feels like a ghost town tonight, doesn't mean it won't be absolutely packed the next day.
Red Storm is a magical place with regular pc's playing in the Area, other wise just a quiet town drowning in a storm.
My particular preference of location isn't very important.  I feel the best parts of the role play present in Arm come from the conflict and discovery that characters from all walks life can bring to the table in a given plot.  If you start eliminating locations, area's, and origins you start eliminating that avenue of conflict.  We could always use more conflict.

I feel the current level of civilized areas are great and shoving 30 some odd characters into the same 20 rooms, isn't going to induce more conflict, its going to in fact smother it.
I'll take a lonely hour in the bar, if it means there is 72 characters stretched across the known having a blast because  next hour, next day, next week some of those characters might just wander in.

[Armaddict]

Consolidation is a hoax.

I'd rather there be more scattered semi-civilization where there is a less rigid anti-conflict structure than more people crammed into a place where every insult is taken to a lifesworn death-oath with the crimcode policing it.

And yes, I would likely leave the game without Allanak, unless it came with sweeping changes to the 'culture' of the rest of the world, as well.

[Rathustra]

if we removed allanak then we'd be...


allalackin'

[Delirium]

womp womp womp

[Fujikoma]

I fucking hate Allanak, yeah, I said it. Go stick it up your butt you backwards, southie bastards.

Actually, I'd miss Allanak a lot less than I would places like Red Storm Village or the Rinth, but significantly more than Luir's, which, let's be honest, is severely lacking in whore population given that it's Luir's and is supposed to have whores. Urg.

[Semper]

It's not the coded city of Allanak that I like. It's the culture and people and flavor that is possible there that isnt found elsewhere. If you could transfer that into a different location, I think I'd be okay with it.

[Desertman]

I'm still a lot more interested in seeing the ruling powers as merchant tycoons lording over smaller settlements.

Merchant tycoons that don't necessarily have steadfast untouchable-in-any-way monopolies on every single major craft and resource in the game.

I would love for Allanak and Tuluk to destroy each other and for Salarr, Kadius, and Kurac to establish their own outposts (Kurac beat you to it). Then I would love for each of these Houses to start dabbling in just about everything.

Then I would love to see actual conflicts for material resources brought about by economic competition happen between these outposts and their merchant tycoon lords.

Right now we have two huge super powers ruling over several small but still godly-powerful sub-powers that never really conflict with each other because ALL OF THEM are seemingly completely happy to just stick with their current stock portfolio without ever branching out.

The players are kind of just the dust on the salt grains on the sweat of these behemoths as they lounge about doing basically nothing.

Maybe the game world needs huge superpowers that can never possibly be affected by the playerbase to continue to function. If we give the players too much of a possibility to actually accomplish something, they may do it, and it may not be good for the game. I don't even mean that sarcastically.

However, that is what I would prefer. So there it is.

[Fujikoma]

Personally, I think the powers that be should be vulnerable, they're not, they're codedly and documented as invulnerable, and it comes off as a "Well, my base has a force-field." vibe. Fuck, this isn't the sandbox, what game are we playing, I signed up for mother-fucking armageddon. Give me Kadius, Kurac and Salarr any day over fucking Muk Utep and his bastard cousin Tektolnes.

[Desertman]

Personally, I think the powers that be should be vulnerable, they're not, they're codedly and documented as invulnerable, and it comes off as a "Well, my base has a force-field." vibe. Fuck, this isn't the sandbox, what game are we playing, I signed up for mother-fucking armageddon. Give me Kadius, Kurac and Salarr any day over fucking Muk Utep and his bastard cousin Tektolnes.

You watch your filthy necker mouth when you speak about the Highlord!

[Fujikoma]

Personally, I think the powers that be should be vulnerable, they're not, they're codedly and documented as invulnerable, and it comes off as a "Well, my base has a force-field." vibe. Fuck, this isn't the sandbox, what game are we playing, I signed up for mother-fucking armageddon. Give me Kadius, Kurac and Salarr any day over fucking Muk Utep and his bastard cousin Tektolnes.

You watch your filthy necker mouth when you speak about the Highlord!

I will slap the pink off your... *Fades to black*

[Harmless]

I voted that I would leave. It would have less to do with Allanak itself though. More that if such a sudden and brutish change were made without years (RL years) of buildup explaining why this was likely and warranted it would feel like the worst retcon of arma's history and it would be final proof that the staff had gone totally astray.

If Tuluk were to be closed it would similarly need a lot of IC buildup.

The Tyn Dashra incident had at least half a RL year of buildup before it happened. I remember the IC buildup from multiple PCs perspectives. I remember gypsy PCs who were trying for IC years to prevent the attack. That kind of thing.

It would take a lot more buildup than that example for me to accept such a change.

Anyway I actually have faith in staff that they would never ever do something like this to Tuluk or Nak without massive IC justification over a long time period. So my answer applies only to a staff team that doesn't exist and has never existed.

[absurdist]

Yeah, Atonement proved that consolidation can work. It fit 40-60 players peak into a single city and three different clans while producing meaningful conflict. I know everyone thinks they're an expert on the game and they just -know- that limiting the game to a half of the current game world would result in apocalyptica! But... There's evidence and history to prove your theories wrong. Not to mention the idea that a smaller game world means more staff involvement in the areas that remain in-game.

[Harmless]

Atonement kept starting from scratch and scrapping everything over and over until its playerbase died out. Good example of how constantly retconning and rebuilding from nothing kills an RPI.

[Fujikoma]

Personally, I do NOT think we need consolidation, what we REALLY need is space. Those of us that play will continue to play, and if we inspire someone else to continue to play, that's fine. Otherwise, fuck you, free boots.

[Fujikoma]

Also I played Prpi and they fucking had a broke-ass economy, it was no fun. I understand Prpi was built on the Atonement engine...

[Rathustra]

Personally, I think the powers that be should be vulnerable, they're not, they're codedly and documented as invulnerable, and it comes off as a "Well, my base has a force-field." vibe. Fuck, this isn't the sandbox, what game are we playing, I signed up for mother-fucking armageddon. Give me Kadius, Kurac and Salarr any day over fucking Muk Utep and his bastard cousin Tektolnes.

This isn't anyone's sandbox. Except Tektolutep's. Sandbox mentality will just burn you out.

[Fujikoma]

Personally, I think the powers that be should be vulnerable, they're not, they're codedly and documented as invulnerable, and it comes off as a "Well, my base has a force-field." vibe. Fuck, this isn't the sandbox, what game are we playing, I signed up for mother-fucking armageddon. Give me Kadius, Kurac and Salarr any day over fucking Muk Utep and his bastard cousin Tektolnes.

This isn't anyone's sandbox. Except Tektolutep's. Sandbox mentality will just burn you out.

I'll sandbox your... URG... ok, um, bend over again!

[absurdist]

Atonement kept starting from scratch and scrapping everything over and over until its playerbase died out. Good example of how constantly retconning and rebuilding from nothing kills an RPI.

Yeah, this didn't happen. The game had stages and a persistent storyline. It didn't die, it ended via plot. Just because it doesn't run the same setting for 20 years doesn't mean it was failing to retain a playerbase. Had 50+ active players when it ended


And Fujikoma: Different games, different staff, different agendas.

But yeah, the poll question. It's very broad.

[Fujikoma]

I'mma surd yer face.

[Adhira]

Thinking about the next poll. If we made Zalanthas off limits to players, would that make you stop playing?

[RogueGunslinger]

No. Then we would all be consolidated to the GDB, and my ultimate goal will have come to fruition.

[i love toilets]

NOTHING CAN MAKE ME STOP PLAYING

[valeria]

No. Then we would all be consolidated to the GDB, and my ultimate goal will have come to fruition.

OMG forums RP.... nostalgia activate.

[rodic]

Yeah, Atonement proved that consolidation can work. It fit 40-60 players peak into a single city and three different clans while producing meaningful conflict. I know everyone thinks they're an expert on the game and they just -know- that limiting the game to a half of the current game world would result in apocalyptica! But... There's evidence and history to prove your theories wrong. Not to mention the idea that a smaller game world means more staff involvement in the areas that remain in-game.

I would dare to say, that Arm is one the longest running RPI's with out any "consolidation" and its being doing just fine for 20+ years.

So there is that!

I'm not an expert like yourself though.

[aeglaeca]

Yeah, Atonement proved that consolidation can work. It fit 40-60 players peak into a single city and three different clans while producing meaningful conflict.

IMO this worked for ARPI because it had staff running things for it every night at peak time consistently, and those brave enough to go exploring outside the safe area in small groups were rewarded with animations (and death ). Arm has a lot more PvE/code world interaction as well as 20-30 more players to keep track of at peak time.

[Incognito]

Allanak vs Tuluk is one of the main existing conflicts driving in-game plots (on a macro level). If either one of those gets removed - it'll be a complete game-changer for all.

The surviving city-state (regardless of whether it's Allanak or Tuluk) would have Zalanthas-wide superiority.

From an OOC view point - sure - something like this WOULD consolidate the player base around a single focal point, but on the other hand, we'd just be doing away with one more "feature" of Armageddon - like Undertuluk, mul magickers, playable halflings and mantis etc etc.

Also, the ruler of the surviving city-state would then have no hinderances for complete global domination - sure it might take some time, but who's gonna stop him? Desert elf tribes? Gypsies? Nomadic tribals? I think not.....

I wouldn't stop playing the game - if something like this were to happen, but I'm of the strong opinion that it'd be a step towards the game's deterioration at a very accelerated pace.

I think this isn't likely to happen in the forseeable future IMO, so the discussion is kinda moot.

[nauta]

Allanak vs Tuluk is one of the main existing conflicts driving in-game plots (on a macro level). If either one of those gets removed - it'll be a complete game-changer for all.

The surviving city-state (regardless of whether it's Allanak or Tuluk) would have Zalanthas-wide superiority.

From an OOC view point - sure - something like this WOULD consolidate the player base around a single focal point, but on the other hand, we'd just be doing away with one more "feature" of Armageddon - like Undertuluk, mul magickers, playable halflings and mantis etc etc.

Also, the ruler of the surviving city-state would then have no hinderances for complete global domination - sure it might take some time, but who's gonna stop him? Desert elf tribes? Gypsies? Nomadic tribals? I think not.....

I wouldn't stop playing the game - if something like this were to happen, but I'm of the strong opinion that it'd be a step towards the game's deterioration at a very accelerated pace.

I think this isn't likely to happen in the forseeable future IMO, so the discussion is kinda moot.

I always thought the question was more 'offlimits to players' not 'wiped out', that is, the city state in question would just go 'virtual'.  I think some people have strong opinions about a city state being actually wiped out, but maybe weaker opinions about it turning virtual (and even weaker if it were temporary).

[Incognito]

I always thought the question was more 'offlimits to players' not 'wiped out', that is, the city state in question would just go 'virtual'.  I think some people have strong opinions about a city state being actually wiped out, but maybe weaker opinions about it turning virtual (and even weaker if it were temporary).

Yeah - if this happened, I could see a lot of people bailing.....!

[Saellyn]

I wouldn't bail. I'd go on extended hiatus.