Play in Rinth

[nauta]

In line with the "Play in Tuluk" thread, which I find pretty interesting, I wanted to see what folks thought about playing in the rinth.  Are there things that you think are immoveably awesome?  Things that you think should change?

For me, I love the rinth.  It is -huge- (roofs and sewers!) but not crazily so: there are no locked doors, so technically you can get to anyone; you always feel like you will die at any moment; there's a real us vs. them climate going (northside/southside); there's some real nifty eastside/westside dynamics; there's just a lot of crazy characters you will meet; there's a lot of dynamics within the PC population (it's been said before but the PCs really do police the rinth); at least the last round of things it was low magic.

What I might like to see changed is:

a) more access somehow for (enterprising spice-adled) foreigners

EDITED TO ADD: Please don't allude or talk about recent things that happened to the rinth.

[Fujikoma]

 When I first started playing, and I went to inform on some rinthis to a Byn Sarge, he sat me down, and said, very quietly and seriously, look, you may not know what these people are capable of, but believe me when I say that if they wanted us dead, you, me, the other Sergeants, my Troopers, we would be. Keep that in mind before undertaking anything.

I remember hearing the Byn Sarge say that, and thinking to myself, wow, that is so cool, mysterious, and terrifying. One day when I'm a better player, I want to get in on that, see what it's all about.

EDIT: Edited to remove some vague things that might hint at stuff.

[Harmless]

I had some fun playing in the rinth a while back but it was really hard to enjoy it when certain PCs that were important to mine died. The turnover rate, basically, is very high, and it makes playing there downright discouraging, for the slow-paced, sedentary kind of player that I am. I think you twitchy players who don't mind the constant threat of PK because you actually know what you're doing with PVP combat are fine with the rinth but to me it's always felt kind of prohibitive.

Then again, I haven't tried every possible role in the rinth that I could have. There's probably a "sweet spot" in there for me, just like the "sweet spot" for me playing a Nakki or Tuluki is to play a breed or similarly outcast role, or the "sweet spot" for me playing Storm is to be fucking sure I have direction sense on my PC.

I think one of those "sweet spot" type things is being able to HIDE effectively. Not being able to hide in the rinth is extremely nerve-wracking, and I don't recommend it.

[Fujikoma]

Yeah, I'd like to see rinthi characters get city sneak/hide as a bonus for location choice, just like I'd like to see direction sense as the skill bonus for having a Red Storm background... maybe that sounds like a bit much, but it's not actually, considering what d-elves get.

[RogueGunslinger]

The labyrinth has been one of my favorite places to play in for a long time. It has a strange history. Lots of it steeped in twinkery, and lots of it consumed by PvP and politics surrounding PvP. There is also a strong undercurrent of role-players who like to realistically portray the seedy underbelly of Allanak and I think they are the strongest part of why I always come back to the Rinth in the end. They're great players, and tend to live a long time and establish a culture of "Do not fuck with us." and "Do not fuck up." That you don't really tend to see in any other parts of the world. I don't think I've ever played in the Labyrinth when these type of players weren't around. They know who they are.

At the end of the day I think this undercurrent is what keeps the Labyrinth from becoming a victim of its own infamy. Most importantly there has always been players willing to adhere to documentation despite what is easy. There is no other place in Armageddon that is so well known for stamping out twinkery through roleplay as the 'rinth. But it's also a place that creates twinkery by its very outlaw nature. I think that is fine and there is always a balance that needs to be maintained. One is the product of the other. I think if it's comes to the point where we expect staff to come in and stamp out these issues then we as players are failing to police our own world through roleplay, like we have for this area for so long.

There have been recent changes to the labyrinth that I don't know the cause of, and I don't want to speculate the cause of. But I imagine it's a large part of why this thread was created. EDITED STUFF  I think it's a very natural thought to occur to someone who has to deal with the situation of constantly dealing with criminals who hide in and come from that area. And yes, many times they're smart enough to realize there must be a reason why the 'rinth is allowed to exist.

There's a lot of speculation out there as to why changes like this happen, and why places function how they do. I would encourage people to use their imagination before seeking to find some hidden excuse for why such things are implemented or go down. This is a role-playing game. And at the end of the day, the name of the game is suspension of disbelief; Filling the void with role-play created of our own interpretation of how things should go down. I just hope people don't lose sight of that. We're here to make a story, and it's really easy to rewrite a story to fit your own narrative, if you're willing to bend a little in the name of creativity with your fellow role-players.

TL:DR not directed at the OP: Don't be cynical.

Yeah, I'd like to see rinthi characters get city sneak/hide as a bonus for location choice, just like I'd like to see direction sense as the skill bonus for having a Red Storm background... maybe that sounds like a bit much, but it's not actually, considering what d-elves get.

Yes please.

*Edited out some stuff that maybe alluded too much.

[Down Under]

Can we be careful not to reveal IC information in this thread? Some of us haven't played in the Labyrinth in a while and don't know what's going on there.

[Fujikoma]

DON'T TELL ME WHAT TO DO, DAD!!!

*pouts*

[nauta]

Yeah, I should have said in OP and I've edited it: there's been some recent things.  Please don't talk about them or allude to them.

[RogueGunslinger]

Yeah guys if you talk about these things be more suave than me.

[Harmless]

Yeah, I'd like to see rinthi characters get city sneak/hide as a bonus for location choice, just like I'd like to see direction sense as the skill bonus for having a Red Storm background... maybe that sounds like a bit much, but it's not actually, considering what d-elves get.

Cool! This would be awesome. After all if it's at a low cap, it won't ever amount to too much anyway, and if pretty much everybody's scan skill consistently beats it, that would be like, exactly what I want.

[nauta]

Yeah, I'd like to see rinthi characters get city sneak/hide as a bonus for location choice, just like I'd like to see direction sense as the skill bonus for having a Red Storm background... maybe that sounds like a bit much, but it's not actually, considering what d-elves get.

Cool! This would be awesome. After all if it's at a low cap, it won't ever amount to too much anyway, and if pretty much everybody's scan skill consistently beats it, that would be like, exactly what I want.

I'm not so sure about that, for two reasons: (a) First, sometimes you'll get that buff dwarf or mul or even human or whatever who rips open huge swaths of the rinth and scares the crap out of you; then you plot, grab some taints, and plot some more; if they could hide too?  zOMG!  (b) when you first start in the rinth, you don't have good hide, and so the established PCs can... herd you in the right direction, which honestly is for your own good most of the time.

One frustrating / hilarious thing about the rinth is that it can seem super empty because everyone is hiding / sneaking.  But in fact, THEY ARE WATCHING YOU.  I just -loved- that sometimes, freaking little tribals out with judicious emotes while shadowing, and being freaked out myself as a newb rinther, timeless times.

[Fujikoma]

Yeah, I'd like to see rinthi characters get city sneak/hide as a bonus for location choice, just like I'd like to see direction sense as the skill bonus for having a Red Storm background... maybe that sounds like a bit much, but it's not actually, considering what d-elves get.

Cool! This would be awesome. After all if it's at a low cap, it won't ever amount to too much anyway, and if pretty much everybody's scan skill consistently beats it, that would be like, exactly what I want.

I'm not so sure about that, for two reasons: (a) First, sometimes you'll get that buff dwarf or mul or even human or whatever who rips open huge swaths of the rinth and scares the crap out of you; then you plot, grab some taints, and plot some more; if they could hide too?  zOMG!  (b) when you first start in the rinth, you don't have good hide, and so the established PCs can... herd you in the right direction, which honestly is for your own good most of the time.

One frustrating / hilarious thing about the rinth is that it can seem super empty because everyone is hiding / sneaking.  But in fact, THEY ARE WATCHING YOU.  I just -loved- that sometimes, freaking little tribals out with judicious emotes while shadowing, and being freaked out myself as a newb rinther, timeless times.

Yeah, I'm saying, start it low, I'd cap it somewhere around jman/advanced. It's still kind of useless in some situations, but a neat trick if you can pull it off under the right circumstances.

[RogueGunslinger]

Its like you guys are still living in the world where people are without special app extended subguilds three times a year.

[yousuff]

Its like you guys are still living in the world where people are without special app extended subguilds three times a year.

Six months till I can use my spec apps seems so far away As for the Labyrinth, it does seem pretty neat as of late. I might roll there when my PC gets eaten by a tentacled monstrosity in the sands

[HavokBlue]

Jaxa Pah when

[Riev]

Of the 2 PCs I've had be "successful" in the 'rinth, BOTH of them were the reason I play this game. And this coming from a twinky, Skill-up-but-don't-PVP-because-scared player. I would virtually animate whores and try to sell them to players. I did the typical "order shipments with our coin, but hide the 'goods' inside stuffed dolls" sort of shadowplay. I had a VERY small group of players that were consistent, and very much the "We won't fuck with you, but if you touch us, you're dead" mentality. Until SITUATION_REPORTED happened, and I lost two of them in one incident, and it kind of killed the mood.


TL;DR the 'rinth is awesome. If you can survive 5-10days played and get involved with a decent crew, its spectacular. The only thing it needs requires a game overhaul (re: players and spice in Allanak). And I only say that, because while spice is awesome, for there being 60 people online most nights, 3 of them smoke spice, and 57 "know a guy".

[nauta]

Jaxa Pah when

I actually had:

(b) a non-Guild clan

But erased it, because (1) I love city elves, buuuuuuut I assumed people would derail into another city elves thread and (2) in the end, the rinth doesn't really need a coded clan, period, in my view.  Gangs come and go, and it works out naturally somehow without any coded whatever.  The one thing that is needed is that clan to interface with the templars / southsiders, and that, I guess, is precisely the job of the Guild.

I do think:

(c) A save room eastside would be nice - no locked doors or anything, but a way of keeping rinthers inside the rinth instead of having to go southside to store whatever crappy crap they accumulate.  Plus, the save rooms generate plots: protecting them and shaking people down from stealing from them.

[Fujikoma]

I think it'd be great if the Guild, after many many years of careful consideration, decided maybe officially hiring an elf or two might be a good idea.

[nauta]

I think it'd be great if the Guild, after many many years of careful consideration, decided maybe officially hiring an elf or two might be a good idea.

Gross. ;-)

[wizturbo]

I've never played a 'rinthi origin character, although I've been tempted to try one... I've avoided it mainly because of the following reasons:

• Isolation from the rest of the player base
  
  
• (Perceived) Lack of clan options/support - not many options in the 'rinth, and being from there limits clan options outside the 'rinth.  If I was a veteran 'rinthi player I wouldn't feel the need for a clan, but I don't like learning the ropes of an area as an independent.
  
  
• PK/PvP stress - I like this sort of thing, but I don't like it 24/7.  I invest a fair amount of thought into my character concepts, I don't mind if they die, but I get annoyed if they die because I went afk to grab a drink for 5 seconds and someone seized that opportunity to stab me.  Yes, I know MOST players aren't going to do something lame like that.  But the concern about that will eat at me. Perhaps certain guild options can resolve this, if I feel like playing them/skilling them up.

Also, as a side note, my limited 'rinthi PC interactions all seemed very cliche to me.  It could just be that the 'rinthi who leave the 'rinth are more cliche than those who stick inside...I dunno, at most I've only day tripped there.

[Fujikoma]

I've never played a 'rinthi origin character, although I've been tempted to try one... I've avoided it mainly because of the following reasons:

• Isolation from the rest of the player base
  
  (Perceived) Lack of clan options/support - not many options in the 'rinth, and being from there limits clan options outside the 'rinth.
  
  PK/PvP stress - I like this sort of thing, but I don't like it 24/7.  I invest a fair amount of thought into my character concepts, I don't mind if they die, but I get annoyed if they die because I went afk to grab a drink for 5 seconds and someone seized that opportunity to stab me.  Perhaps certain guild options can resolve this, if I feel like playing them/skilling them up.

Also, as a side note, my limited 'rinthi PC interactions all seemed very cliche to me.  It could just be that the 'rinthi who leave the 'rinth are more cliche than those who stick inside...I dunno, at most I've only day tripped there.

I've never just been randomly stabbed in the rinth by a PC, I mean, I suppose it could happen, but usually when I see or hear someone got shanked, there definitely was a reason behind it... then again, I haven't been playing all that long. Truth be told, depending on the character you're playing, race, background, personality, quirks, the rinth could be much safer than other areas.

[wizturbo]

I've never just been randomly stabbed in the rinth by a PC, I mean, I suppose it could happen, but usually when I see or hear someone got shanked, there definitely was a reason behind it... then again, I haven't been playing all that long. Truth be told, depending on the character you're playing, race, background, personality, quirks, the rinth could be much safer than other areas.

Maybe I just need to make a throwaway, mundane character and see how things go.  Amos the poor orphan, here I come!

[HavokBlue]

I've been randomly sapped and/or blood burn backstabbed in the Rinth several times. Just hours after chargen, on occasion.

[yousuff]

I've been randomly sapped and/or blood burn backstabbed in the Rinth several times. Just hours after chargen, on occasion.

git gud skrub I don't think I've ever had that happen to me before. Maybe you were on the wrong side of town?

[boog]

I didn't care for the one character I created in the Rinth. Err, well. No. I didn't like the area. I loved my character.

[HavokBlue]

I've been randomly sapped and/or blood burn backstabbed in the Rinth several times. Just hours after chargen, on occasion.

git gud skrub I don't think I've ever had that happen to me before. Maybe you were on the wrong side of town?

I've had elven PCs randomly assaulted by other elven PCs in the eastside, and human PCs assaulted by other human PCs in the westside before they'd ever interacted with another PC.

I've also had relatively successful rinthi PCs, including one that managed to assume control of a westside gang within about a week of chargen. I love the rinth, it was what sold me on Armageddon. I just don't always love the mindset of some of the people there, or the way the reality of that part of the game does not reflect the documentation, or that there is no option for elven PCs to join a clan.

[Large Hero]

Every time I've played in the Rinth, people have gone out of their way to both:

A) Make me know that I'd get fucked up if I fucked up, and

B) Make me know that I'd be taken care of (as in, given chances to make money and be protected) if I got in good with the right people.

In other words, exactly as it should be. Kudos to those people.

[yousuff]

I think the elven thing is a glaring problem. One of these days I'mma do an elven family rolecall for a virtual tribe in the labyrinth and work on getting it coded. In all honesty, I think the best way of going about this would be rolling a merchant and mastercrafting a unique tent and claim some territory for your tribe. Might be interesting

[CodeMaster]

Jaxa Pah when

I actually had:

(b) a non-Guild clan

But erased it, because (1) I love city elves, buuuuuuut I assumed people would derail into another city elves thread and (2) in the end, the rinth doesn't really need a coded clan, period, in my view.  Gangs come and go, and it works out naturally somehow without any coded whatever.  The one thing that is needed is that clan to interface with the templars / southsiders, and that, I guess, is precisely the job of the Guild.

I do think:

(c) A save room eastside would be nice - no locked doors or anything, but a way of keeping rinthers inside the rinth instead of having to go southside to store whatever crappy crap they accumulate.  Plus, the save rooms generate plots: protecting them and shaking people down from stealing from them.

I think Jaxa Pah and city elven tribes that recruit is a fraught concept - these are powerful and influential tribes (per the docs), but they want[ed] "surrogate" family members for some reason... really, why would such a group interact with outsiders except to exploit them?

(But I too fear this thread becoming a city elf thread, so let's just let them be the misfit children of Zalanthas and leave that for another one of those threads.)


Regarding nauta's (b) -- I feel like most of the available clans represent the Zalanthan "elite" (the 'rinth included).  I would love to see an open clan in the 'rinth that wasn't necessarily a Zalanthan superpower:

- A ragtag group of spice couriers
- an Oliver Twist-style crew of pickpockets
- Fencing and counterfeiting
- the cooks who turn any one of the tavern's dubious "ingredients" into something that looks edible
- Dirty deeds done dirt cheap

These entities certainly exist virtually, and the Guild probably keeps tabs on all of them.  Some of them might not even care if you're an elf or a dwarf or whatever.


(c) would be nice too, if it doesn't already exist somewhere.  A couple save rooms described as garbage heaps where you could use the bury code would be cool.  "Hideouts" for the aforementioned clans consisting of a single save room with few if any amenities.  Although part of 'rinthi culture is, I guess, keeping almost everything you own on your back.

[rodic]

Love the rinth, would play again 10 out of 10.


Will play again when....


Can't say more.

[nauta]

I've never played a 'rinthi origin character, although I've been tempted to try one... I've avoided it mainly because of the following reasons:

• Isolation from the rest of the player base
  
  
• (Perceived) Lack of clan options/support - not many options in the 'rinth, and being from there limits clan options outside the 'rinth.  If I was a veteran 'rinthi player I wouldn't feel the need for a clan, but I don't like learning the ropes of an area as an independent.
  
  
• PK/PvP stress - I like this sort of thing, but I don't like it 24/7.  I invest a fair amount of thought into my character concepts, I don't mind if they die, but I get annoyed if they die because I went afk to grab a drink for 5 seconds and someone seized that opportunity to stab me.  Yes, I know MOST players aren't going to do something lame like that.  But the concern about that will eat at me. Perhaps certain guild options can resolve this, if I feel like playing them/skilling them up.

(a) The rinth is far less isolating (due to its proximity to Nak) than, say, every other place except Nak (afaik), but there definitely is a lot of solo RP time if you want to play someone who plays in the rinth 24/7.  There are definitely lows where it can seem like you are the only PC around, but stick it out: they'll come out of the shadows eventually, and especially if you start murdering a few kids, hehe.
.
(b) I'm a newb and I figured out how to not die (after, um, my second or third PC) by just (1) not being a douche to the current PCs or NPCs and (2) lots of time just walking around getting to know the place, mapping it out.  I don't want to give anything away, but there are bad spots, so you will need to have someone take you under a wing eventually.  But the bad spots are pretty obvious.

I do agree that new rinth PCs might get bored... One reason I started this thread is that I was asked by staff when I sent in a PC report a long time ago if there were suggestions I had on the rinth.  One idea I had at the time was to have an "NPC hunting zone" with things like rats - something for people to do in their off hours like hunters get that isn't straight up twinking or just RP bizarre (killing kids, yeah!) 

(c) I can't reveal too much but let's just say you can survive a long time unhidden, weaponless and armorless. There is, to be sure, the stresses (just like a wilderness setting), but I think a lot of the PCs recognized the difference between a PC that wanted to RP and a twink PC that wanted to get cut down mercilessly. I do remember feeling something missing when I started playing a non-rinther city-bound PC - namely, the constant fear of getting ganked.  And, yeah, attacking someone AFK is a douche move.

[valeria]

I've never played in the Rinth.  Sometimes I'm tempted, but I'm worried there will be no one else playing there and I will be bored to tears.  If I'm going to do a Rinthi, it's not going to be one that comes Southside to hang out in the bars all the time.

I came very close one time.  I had an extended subguild application in and then someone I knew let it slip that they were playing up there, so I had to cancel it.  Now I have three other concepts I want to play more.  Maybe some year.

[Quell]

I've never played in the Rinth.  Sometimes I'm tempted, but I'm worried there will be no one else playing there and I will be bored to tears.  If I'm going to do a Rinthi, it's not going to be one that comes Southside to hang out in the bars all the time.

I came very close one time.  I had an extended subguild application in and then someone I knew let it slip that they were playing up there, so I had to cancel it.  Now I have three other concepts I want to play more.  Maybe some year.

The rinth is actually one of the only places I don't mind playing by myself. The virtual environment is both codedly and descriptively so much more alive than the rest of the world that spending a few days by yourself isn't really all that bad.

[chrisdcoulombe]

I love playing in the rinth.  "THUG LIFE".