Culture in terms of water.

[MeTekillot]

So what you want to do is create drills around preparing extra waterskins of water for a person who is filling one of your clan slots to carry water with you into the desert, when you didn't have to do this before, and this sounds like a good idea to you? The person in question is more vulnerable due to the fact they are carrying water instead of equipment, so you are also worrying about protecting them specifically as well, when you didn't have to do this before. Now I understand the concept of creating more stuff for players to do, but this particular idea doesn't seem like it holds much water, since the work/fun return seems pretty low.

[wizturbo]

While we're at it, I think in combat, there should be a chance that any of your waterskins or containers might be broken or pierced, causing your water to pour out.  This would be realistic, and make water that much more important....  It would also create new economic opportunities for people to design heavily armored water-carrying equipment to give you a bonus to avoid this.

Sounds awesome, right?!  Wait, there's more!

Backstab can prioritize waterskins instead of a target's vitals, allowing you to destroy their water much more often when using your stealthy attacks.  

Sap can similarly be used to burst open a waterskin or other water container, causing it to lose it's precious contents.

Steal may also be used to covertly siphon off your victim's water, insidiously stealing it for yourself without their knowledge...

Let the Water Wars begin!!!  Or we can just, let it be in the background of the story....please....

[Cabooze]

While we're at it, I think in combat, there should be a chance that any of your waterskins or containers might be broken or pierced, causing your water to pour out.  This would be realistic, and make water that much more important....  It would also create new economic opportunities for people to design heavily armored water-carrying equipment to give you a bonus to avoid this.

Sounds awesome, right?!  Wait, there's more!

Backstab will now prioritize waterskins instead of a target's vitals, allowing you to destroy their water much more often when using your stealthy attacks.  

Sap can similarly be used to burst open a waterskin or other water container, causing it to lose it's precious contents.

Steal may also be used to covertly siphon off your victim's water, insidiously stealing it for yourself without their knowledge...

Let the Water Wars begin!!!  Or we can just, let it be in the background of the story....please....

Lol!

So what you want to do is create drills around preparing extra waterskins of water for a person who is filling one of your clan slots to carry water with you into the desert, when you didn't have to do this before, and this sounds like a good idea to you? The person in question is more vulnerable due to the fact they are carrying water instead of equipment, so you are also worrying about protecting them specifically as well, when you didn't have to do this before. Now I understand the concept of creating more stuff for players to do, but this particular idea doesn't seem like it holds much water, since the work/fun return seems pretty low.

I feel like there's a lot of passive aggression in these posts that post.. Unless I am misinterpreting the emotion in your words?
Did I say something wrong?

[MeTekillot]

My post is trying to highlight the fact that your idea creates a whole lot of work while not creating any really interesting (in my opinion) roleplay or gameplay opportunities. Wizturbo, on the other hand, is taking the piss with you.

[wizturbo]

I feel like there's a lot of passive aggression in these posts.. Unless I am misinterpreting the emotion in your words?
Did I say something wrong?

Sarcasm in my case.  Not picking on you either Cabooze, I just think this whole "make water harder to get, less refreshing, etc." discussion is silly.  I'm all for doing things that change the flavor of the game (such as adding more grey-water, or murky water, or whatever), but anything that adds extra logistics or hassle for PCs seems silly to me.

[Cabooze]

I feel like there's a lot of passive aggression in these posts.. Unless I am misinterpreting the emotion in your words?
Did I say something wrong?

Sarcasm in my case.  Not picking on you either Cabooze, I just think this whole "make water harder to get, less refreshing, etc." discussion is silly.  I'm all for doing things that change the flavor of the game (such as adding more grey-water, or murky water, or whatever), but anything that adds extra logistics or hassle for PCs seems silly to me.

I understand, I corrected myself in my post when I read your edit.

[Fujikoma]

People who've been around during periods where water for clans was in finite supply urge against going back to it. I'd rather take their word, personally, than experience the kind of disaster I can see happening.

[Patuk]

I'm okay with water being made murkier in lots of cases, but CodeMaster is right in saying that water doesn't magically get more nourishing if you filter out trace bits of dirt. It might get magically more nourishing if you magically conjure it, but that's hardly the issue.

[Hot_Dancer]

The old 'fill the water barrel runs' were in a day before local springs/water sources were 'updated' by current code/staff/events.

It would be much more difficult if we reverted back - the same resources are not available.

[Eyeball]

The old 'fill the water barrel runs' were in a day before local springs/water sources were 'updated' by current code/staff/events.

It would be much more difficult if we reverted back - the same resources are not available.

Also, back in the day, characters would never get thirsty if they stayed indoors all of the time. They need more water these days than before, because thirst builds even while indoors.

[Barzalene]

I know it will never happen and it's not worth the trouble to code, but I wish you could pay for everything in either coin or water.

[BadSkeelz]

I wonder if "A jar of warm spit" has greater or lesser value in Zalanthas than in real life.

[Molten Heart]

n/m

[Jeax]

Water is interesting. I do agree that it's not terribly hard to get to, there is nowhere in the Known I can think of that I'd go that I wouldn't (OOCly) know how to have access to some free water.

However, that's because I've played characters all over the map and done a substantial amount of exploration.

The RP element that someone brought up is absolutely spot on. I flip flop back and forth on this, but I have taken to sometimes I play a character that "doesn't know" where the water holes are, even if they are an explorer. This not only adds realistic RP, but it also makes the water situation more real. Of course, if my character is going to die, might I just "find" a water hole? Perhaps Depends how attached I am to the character.

Yet, I do agree with the sentiment that if you have a character that works at all, making sure you have water to drink is not really a struggle if you're in a city. Then again, I don't know that it should be.

I think what might be interesting is if there was an extended HRPT/event of sorts of a drought/water shortage THEN people would start killing for water, and keeling over dead due to its lack. Or making really strange deals for some. That would be pretty cool.

[AdamBlue]

I want to see a Viv and a Rukkian team up somewhere ad create just a super huge oasis of water, almost a lake just out in the middle of nowhere, with a massive sandstone ceiling overtop of it, with trees and plants growing across the top of it to absorb the sunlight and produce fruit, with their roots trailing down into the water to stay hydrated. Basically, an extremely small garden of eden.

And I'd like to stumble upon this glowing oasis of water and be like, 'I am tripping balls, right?'

[Jihelu]

I want to see a Viv and a Rukkian team up somewhere ad create just a super huge oasis of water, almost a lake just out in the middle of nowhere, with a massive sandstone ceiling overtop of it, with trees and plants growing across the top of it to absorb the sunlight and produce fruit, with their roots trailing down into the water to stay hydrated. Basically, an extremely small garden of eden.

And I'd like to stumble upon this glowing oasis of water and be like, 'I am tripping balls, right?'

It would be good up until you realize magic then you can go "BACK DEMONS" And forbid that water!
Or atleast thats what I've gotten from peoples reaction to Viv's.
People should like the water spewing mages more.

[CodeMaster]

People should like the water spewing mages more.

I'm no authority on the topic.  But should they?  Magick (specifically sorcery, but who can tell the difference these days) is the reason the world is in such a blighted state in the first place.

It's conceivable Joe Commoner might view water magick as a kind of monkey's paw -- it'll quench his thirst for now, but perhaps by drinking it he'll be donating his life force to the mage that created it.  Or it might contain some kind of undetectable, deadly poison.  Who knows?

[Bast]

I'm currently of the belief that the only reason either of the cities have water is because of Viv's whether they let the public know about it or not.

[Jihelu]

People should like the water spewing mages more.

I'm no authority on the topic.  But should they?  Magick (specifically sorcery, but who can tell the difference these days) is the reason the world is in such a blighted state in the first place.

It's conceivable Joe Commoner might view water magick as a kind of monkey's paw -- it'll quench his thirst for now, but perhaps by drinking it he'll be donating his life force to the mage that created it.  Or it might contain some kind of undetectable, deadly poison.  Who knows?

I see it as two sides.
The standard "Magick is icky" side.
The "It could be poison it's icky" side.
(I lied there are more than two)
But I see your point. Then again, you could just do whats stated above and conspiracy theory that and possibly get more people to like the idea...or think you are stupid, probably the response.
If anything, I would see Viv magic as the 'magic that could make the world less shitty' and focus more of the hate on Krathis/sorcerers (Drainin the earth bruh), Nilazi, etc.

[Saellyn]

REally I think at least Vivs should at least be the mage you're willing to take with a grain of salt. The other guys, though, fuck that. Take a Krathi out hunting with you, what, so he can burn the goddamn game animal to a crisp? Blow you all up like BOOM!? Naaaaah.

[Barzalene]

I liked the drought idea. Suddenly vivs are popular. Drought ends and then does the tide turn?

[Saellyn]

Fluctuating ties? Sure sure. Some parts of the year, water is just scarce. Vivs are the only source (down south. Up north I dunno that would make much sense).

Maybe not the only source, but the price in the temple goes up and suddenly having a Viv fill your canteen or skin isn't such a bad notion. I really feel like a Viv should be the -least- hated of the mages. Perhaps, even, grudgingly accepted?

[whitt]

I liked the drought idea. Suddenly vivs are popular. Drought ends and then does the tide turn?

More likely Vivs are blamed.  Or Krathis.  Or both!

Once the drought kicks in, the populace is riled up against the offending magickers, pushing them toward the Templarate and Nobility for protection.  These "haves" agree to protect the magickers, at the cost of indentured servitude for life, from the teeming masses.  In turn the Nobles and Templars have all the water, thereby increasing their comfort levels and control of the populace.

If only we knew who actually caused the drought and riled up the populace.

Wait.  This all sounds vaguely familiar already...

[Jihelu]

I liked the drought idea. Suddenly vivs are popular. Drought ends and then does the tide turn?

More likely Vivs are blamed.  Or Krathis.  Or both!

Once the drought kicks in, the populace is riled up against the offending magickers, pushing them toward the Templarate and Nobility for protection.  These "haves" agree to protect the magickers, at the cost of indentured servitude for life, from the teeming masses.  In turn the Nobles and Templars have all the water, thereby increasing their comfort levels and control of the populace.

If only we knew who actually caused the drought and riled up the populace.

Wait.  This all sounds vaguely familiar already...

Or maybe someone steps up and convinces people to have the magickers help them or some shit.

Unlikely.
But THERES A CHANCE!
Given the history they might just burn the temples down again. Rip.

[Aruven]

People should like the water spewing mages more.

I'm no authority on the topic.  But should they?  Magick (specifically sorcery, but who can tell the difference these days) is the reason the world is in such a blighted state in the first place.

It's conceivable Joe Commoner might view water magick as a kind of monkey's paw -- it'll quench his thirst for now, but perhaps by drinking it he'll be donating his life force to the mage that created it.  Or it might contain some kind of undetectable, deadly poison.  Who knows?

I see it as two sides.
The standard "Magick is icky" side.
The "It could be poison it's icky" side.
(I lied there are more than two)
But I see your point. Then again, you could just do whats stated above and conspiracy theory that and possibly get more people to like the idea...or think you are stupid, probably the response.
If anything, I would see Viv magic as the 'magic that could make the world less shitty' and focus more of the hate on Krathis/sorcerers (Drainin the earth bruh), Nilazi, etc.

This is interesting to me, this whole concept of people liking mages for their abilities.

I'll give you an example, every time shit goes down in allanak, NORMALLY, the mages in the city do massive amounts of work to protect people.

Those people then in turn use them as scapegoats over and over. Magickers don't get preferential treatment from anyone, especially nobility or templars.

After awhile, the whole concept is unrealistic to me, because after so many saving throws the mages are still just treated like shit. Why is this unrealistic? For two reasons.

Because 1 ; A population would have learned long ago to give some ground to mages because they are vital. (Lets think, I dont know, war with Tuluk. What can Mages help Allanak bring to the table that Tuluk cannot. Wow, that's a lot of devastating potential. )

And also, reason 2: A population of mages has long past that mark where they think 'hopefully doing good stuff gets a better opinion of us' because its been over and over and over that they suffer for it, no matter what templar or noble acts nice to them every so often. It doesn't matter how many times they save the known, or the city, or people, or heal people, or boost them up with spells. Everyone always has a shitty disposition towards mages.

Staying on topic : Generally people in game do like vivaduans compared to other elements. Their are (were?) entire cultures based around it. Then you have your more violent or chaotic elements that are always feared for what they are. People have mentioned a few on here.