Way echoes

[Incognito]

The tall figure in a dark hooded cloak says in rinthi-accented Sirihish, "If you try and contact someone I'll kill you."

You nod meekly, tied and bound up and bleeding badly.

You think "I need to reach out to Amos, he might be able to save me."

You contact Amos' mind over the Way.

Your countenance glosses over briefly.

Welcome to Armageddon...

No - this is a really bad idea.

[Is Friday]

The tall figure in a dark hooded cloak says in rinthi-accented Sirihish, "If you try and contact someone I'll kill you."

You nod meekly, tied and bound up and bleeding badly.

You think "I need to reach out to Amos, he might be able to save me."

You contact Amos' mind over the Way.

Your countenance glosses over briefly.

Welcome to Armageddon...

No - this is a really bad idea.

This is actually the exact scenario I have in mind for why it's a good idea.

[FantasyWriter]

Agree with Is Friday.
This would actually give a raider/mugger MORE chances to leave their victims alive.

[Molten Heart]

IF you're a raider and you want to make sure your target isn't waying anyone (anyone else), demand they contact you and stay there. Problem solved.

[Is Friday]

That is not a solution.

Edit:

This idea is meant to facilitate more tension in face to face interaction, provide depth or challenge to subversive acts, and give weight to physical threats. It's meant to encourage more middle ground between questioning and killing a captive. Although it has a much wider scope it impacts.

I'm not saying that contacting people and spreading info like that is metagamey, but it certainly would be more interesting if you added some visual representation of someone who is using the Way. Right now the Way only matters for your plots. Let's get those things connected and have more people involved.

[Molten Heart]

That is not a solution.

It's a solution.

[Is Friday]

Clarification: My proposal isn't to give everyone the same bland emote for Waying, the idea is just that you have some coded echo or ability to see if someone is Waying.

Assess -v
Look
Watch
Hemote

... are all options and if you're going to introduce something like this it is just as easy to provide a non-spammy option.

[Molten Heart]

Is it realistic for a mundane person to detect when someone else is using the way? I don't think it is.

[Is Friday]

Is it realistic for a mundane to be able to use the Way at all?

[Fujikoma]

... I think this is a good idea, already having said that, however. Demanding someone contact you costs several seconds in delay which could result in their demise due to retaliation over delay or maybe some RL stuff on their end (or maybe they just woke up from a sap or a taint and you have no idea how fast they'll recuperate), so, I am also of the opinion that this is not a solution. Now, things work perfectly well as they are, but I would rather discuss the merits of the idea or the drawbacks, rather than mentioning quick fixes. This is an idea, not an attack on the way the code already is. And this is but one possible benefit/drawback, I'm sure there's others we've not explored or that others haven't mentioned, this just happens to be one of the first things that comes to mind. I think anything that makes it easier to spare the life of another PC is a good thing (although you ungrateful bastards usually react badly).

Another benefit would be it would always be happening in highly trafficked areas, which means, scan and watch would have a chance to skill up at a more natural pace and involve less OOC motivated behavior like: find that one hidden NPC that's always there and spam look in that direction. If you play in Tuluk, this may not be a big issue, or if you play in Storm, but somewhere like Luir's or Allanak, you may have a bit of a tough time (although with certain new additions it may not be so bad).

I'm sure there are others, like, maybe if something bad happens to you every time you climb onto a stool and someone's whatchamacallit goes glossy, you have an indication of where you may need to look for the source of your woes. Constant anonymous hassling from someone pretending to be friendly gets old after a while.

If it's harder to detect at higher levels, though, this sort of equals just a big buff for rangers, it's unlikely to achieve any degree of consistency with another guild, to be quite honest, unless its stealth factor tops out at a certain point.

[Molten Heart]

Sorry, I just don't agree. if the code generates echos when someone uses the way, shouldn't it generate echos when someone is hungry, thirsty, has to pee, wounded, tired, horny, bored, anxious. thinking murderous thoughts, etc? Imagine the distraction this would cause during the next Fale RPT or even just sitting in a tavern full of other people.

If we're looking for ideas to facilitate raiding there are certain poisons one can use to render marks vulnerable.  I'd even suggest some kind of way to blind people, blindness poison?  That'd be pretty cool.

[Is Friday]

I editted my above post instead of making a new one. Whoops.

[FantasyWriter]

Sorry, I just don't agree. if the code generates echos when someone uses the way, shouldn't it generate echos when someone is hungry, thirsty, has to pee, wounded, tired, horny, bored, anxious. thinking murderous thoughts, etc? Imagine the distraction this would cause during the next Fale RPT or even just sitting in a tavern full of other people.

Except unlike those things, it distracts your PC in a significant and measurable way(it takes stun points/breaks your concentration)  If you don't believe me, try contacting someone while you are making something, or trying to hide, or trying to cast a spell. Just like scanning does, just like watching someone does, it takes a consistent amount of effort and people should have a chance to notice.  Even if your date is texting under the table, it is still likely to be noticed that they aren't giving you their undivided attention.

[Case]

Definitely love the idea more after X-Ds response earlier.

[X-D]

Heh.

I still see no point to it.

Oh, I know, the newb wannabe raider/mugger players think it is great. But as others have said, there are already several ways to prevent a mark from using the way or using it against you.

Or, you can just plan for it. When I play a raider, I know they will way friends if they have them, That is fine, I never told anybody to not way. And not once did help ever arrive, not in hundreds of scenes.

[MeTekillot]

Look guys, there are already ways to do the things you want. You just need to know what they are. wink wink nudge nudge

[Majikal]

Maybe have it designed so only if you're watching them do you have a chance of picking it up?

[Fujikoma]

Look guys, there are already ways to do the things you want. You just need to know what they are. wink wink nudge nudge

Yeah, it's:

think I know Amos will way his friends if I try to speak with him, and tell them all what I look like.
semote gives ~amos the finger.
backstab amos

[HavokBlue]

Everything you may ever potentially want to accomplish in game, X-D already knows how to do, has planned for, and isn't worried about.

There is no scenario in which X-D does not win.

He is...

The perfect weapon.

[nauta]

Sorta necro, too, but I really liked this idea, and thought of another case where it'd be helpful:

When shadowing people, they often go into this trance state, which sometimes means they are AFK (which means I can go grab lunch or do something more interesting with my time) or they are waying.  It's sort of a playability plus, I'd say.

(Not just when shadowing, sometimes people just drop out mid conversation, and it'd be nice to know if they are afk or just not doing anything on the surface.)

And I agree with the main thought, it'd bring the two worlds closer together.  Without giving away too many details (as if we don't know, but!) it wasn't until I started playing in Tuluk that I really started paying attention to the FEEL command.  I feel there's an analogy here: if other PCs can pick up on it, it allows them (even that iota) of a chance to RP a reaction: Oh, she's waying, I'll wait politely.  Instead of that awkward: nothing.

[wizturbo]

With everyone starting with contact at Master, I think it's safe to say the average Zalanthian is capable of using the Way discretely if they so choose.  Leave it to the player to emote where necessary.

[IAmJacksOpinion]

[having your victim contact you] is not a solution.

It's a solution.

+1.

This is the way it's always been done, and it's a 10x more viable solution now that everyone has master contact. I remember back in the day when I was the victim in this scenario with a < 1 day character, and I had to KO myself in a show of good faith just to not get ganked. Really made the scene dog shit, but what can you do? Again, that's almost never going to happen these days.

Mostly because it is a blanket idea...Oooh...EVERYBODY has this exact same reaction/tell when using the way...blah.

I already give tells when my PC is low skill at the way, but at high skill they start to go away, at master I consider breathing to be more taxing then using the way.

Nail on head. Most PCs will do the finger on temple thing when they're waying. But with way communication being almost as natural as verbal communication in Zalanthas, there's absolutely no reason they wouldn't be able to disguise their distraction at will.

I mean, I'm not a big fan of people carrying on several perfectly coherent discussions simultaneously but adding a "gotcha!" isn't going to prevent that. That's up to individual responsibility.

[HavokBlue]

My PCs generally don't exhibit a tell for Way usage unless they're doing it intentionally to indicate to the people they're with that they're maintaining another conversation, or if they're about to pass out from low stun.

[Suhuy]

Interesting idea I can see the reasons both for and against. But before something like that would get implemented, I think it needs to be decided on high if the Way is something which actually taxes you such that it would cause visible strain, not just psychic strain. I don't care if it's the same script every time, for people who think that might get redundant. You also see the same script when someone hits you very hard, or when someone smokes spice, or when someone crouches down and looks for tracks, etc. But there may be too many variables for there to always be indicators of using telepathy. For example, if I'm resting and otherwise doing nothing, perhaps it would be easy to conceal any facial cues that indicate I'm using the Way, whereas it may be more difficult to maintain concentration while having a conversation. And these are things the code just can't always determine. I think I might rather see a certain measure of trust extended to players with regards to how they choose to RP using the Way. Though by the same token, if this idea got implemented tomorrow I would eagerly look forward to how we all will have to deal with the new changes!

[Is Friday]

As a person who has played law enforcement PCs, kidnappers, and bounty hunters -- extending people the trust that they'll "be responsible" in their roleplay is misguided. Most people with investment in their PC is going to do what they need to do to survive with that PC. Just like any character would logically do whatever to survive. When roleplayers get into intense scenes where their PC's life is at stake, it is not commonplace for a player to remain calm or hit every "I'm a good honest roleplayer" checkbox.

The idea is meant to foster more roleplay in tense or restricted situations, not prohibit it.