Running as a skill

[Eyeball]

Here's an idea. Instead of desert elves having a hardcoded advantage at running out of doors, making running a skill.

Desert elves would begin with a high skill level since they'd have been running all their lives.

City elves could develop a fair degree of running proficiency (lower movement costs) if they work at it diligently. Not as high as a desert elf, but a lot better than someone unused to running.

Other races would be able to show only limited improvement at it if they have the skill at all.

[Patuk]

Cool stuff. Agreed about elves requiring a higher cap than the other races. Make sure it scales with endurance in more ways than just going more endurance = more stamina, too

[KankWhisperer]

Good idea.

[RogueGunslinger]

Good idea.

[creeper386]

Good idea.

[Cabooze]

Good idea.

[BleakOne]

A fine idea.

Also: C-C-COMBO BREAKER!

[HavokBlue]

To play contrarian, what does this accomplish?

[X-D]

I think it is an interesting concept. After all, sneaking and climbing are skills.

[creeper386]

To play contrarian, what does this accomplish?

From my thoughts is it lets people have a variety degree of athletics. From what I've seen, most people tend to run out of stamina about the same time. Maybe there'd be options for foot races ... Might make delivery service more interesting. All sorts of little things.

Though I think it should be more a behind the scenes things versus a standard skill persay. Something that could effect just stamina loss in general. Maybe have lots of walking/running impact increase ability to run/walk further.

Maybe have carrying lots of heavy things, decrease stamina loss while over encumbered.

And other athletic things that have stamina effects perhaps could also be effected by this as well.

[creeper386]

Even as a basic run skill it's a coded item that is interesting, can potentially set characters apart to some degree without being necessarily codedly powerful like slashing/parry or backstab or fireball whatever.

[MeTekillot]

To play contrarian, what does this accomplish?

I think it is meant to mitigate the hella suck that is playing a city elf.

[HavokBlue]

Well, I mean... In what way? I guess they might be slightly less shitty at running outdoors but that could be resolved by giving them something like delf running outside. And honestly, running and being able to go on Byn contracts aren't really the root of city elf suckitude.

[MeTekillot]

Well their docs say they like to wander and this would facilitate that. Assuming that doesn't get retconned or something.

[Majikal]

I'm for the idea, while I would only like elves desert/city to have it. The idea of having a feasible city-elf that can hunt without walking about and actually run around. It makes sense that they would be at least CAPABLE of running like a d-elf. Would make city-elves more appealing to a lot of players and not hurt the idea behind the elf at all. It'd fit in absolutely seamless with the game world IMO. Best idea 2014

I love elves, I love elven mentality, this would make me actually take a serious run at a c-elf and not just as a throwaway.

[Lizzie]

I could see coded-clan tribal humans getting a variation of it actually. First off, they'd need a /modest/ boost to their starting stamina. We're talking 10-15 points higher than the current minimum, as the new minimum.

Next, the variation - they could train to run faster. But they would still lose the same amount of stamina points as they're using now to walk. Only the delay time between rooms would change. It never made much sense to me that an Arabet wasn't capable of zipping around near their own campsite.

[Asanadas]

Just weighing in to say I think this is a good idea. A bridge over the gap of desert elf snowflake-ness and city elf suckiness in regards to travel over the desert is a definite improvement.

[Majikal]

Just weighing in to say I think this is a good idea. A bridge over the gap of desert elf snowflake-ness and city elf suckiness in regards to travel over the desert is a definite improvement.

Fo sho.

[CodeMaster]

Some random questions:

1. Would newbie city elves be worse runners than the current default?  (Many city elves seem destined to only ever be newbies -- nasty, brutish, short little lives -- so this would effectively be harming the average city elf player).

2. Would veteran city elves be better than the current default?

3. What would the skill curve look like?  Would a 2 day city-elf be playing long enough to have maxed run?

The reason I ask those three questions is because making city elves run faster has been discussed before.  If the net effect of this change is to make city elves run faster, why not just do that and not bother with a skill?  The truth is, their current ability to run confers some massive advantages that only reveal themselves situationally.  This kind of change is, I suspect, easy to implement but hard to balance.

Some other thoughts I'll tack on:

4. Could the skill ever decrease?  If such a skill were introduced, I really hope it would decrease.  IRL, stamina is one of the first thing to go if you stop training.  A city elf who spends all his time sneaking around should probably not be in the same class as the city elf who runs around.

5. Currently, if you are walking around with someone slower than you, they can "fall behind".  Intra-racial discrepancies in movement/run speed would make people have to be a little more careful about how quickly they move around.

[KankWhisperer]

Give everyone , including delves, travel endurance skill for walking.

Give desert elves psionic ability: resist run fatigue <insert cooler name>

Only with the desert elf ability, does the run movement cost actually go down like it does now for them. Have to concentrate so minor stun check as they run.

End needlessly complicated random idea::

[Molten Heart]

Give desert elves psionic ability: resist run fatigue <insert cooler name>

This is a cool idea.  Would it be a passive skill or something like barrier/contact that requires a toggle to use?

[Majikal]

Some random questions:

1. Would newbie city elves be worse runners than the current default?  (Many city elves seem destined to only ever be newbies -- nasty, brutish, short little lives -- so this would effectively be harming the average city elf player).

This game has a harsh learning curve no matter where you start.

2. Would veteran city elves be better than the current default?

I imagine the skill to be more like riding in terms of raising, not to big of a deal and staff have adjusted personally skills before after a change

3. What would the skill curve look like?  Would a 2 day city-elf be playing long enough to have maxed run?

See previous.

The reason I ask those three questions is because making city elves run faster has been discussed before.  If the net effect of this change is to make city elves run faster, why not just do that and not bother with a skill?  The truth is, their current ability to run confers some massive advantages that only reveal themselves situationally.  This kind of change is, I suspect, easy to implement but hard to balance.

agility+racial speed+pace, this current system seems pretty balanced, elves being better at it still doesn't put them ahead codedly speaking to anybody that's been around long enough to know.

Some other thoughts I'll tack on:

4. Could the skill ever decrease?  If such a skill were introduced, I really hope it would decrease.  IRL, stamina is one of the first thing to go if you stop training.  A city elf who spends all his time sneaking around should probably not be in the same class as the city elf who runs around.

I wish this was the case with all skills that didn't see use over a period of time. Say 12-24 hours of no use and skills start to decline. That'd be awesome.

5. Currently, if you are walking around with someone slower than you, they can "fall behind".  Intra-racial discrepancies in movement/run speed would make people have to be a little more careful about how quickly they move around.

Nothing new.
[/quote]

[KankWhisperer]

Give desert elves psionic ability: resist run fatigue <insert cooler name>

This is a cool idea.  Would it be a passive skill or something like barrier/contact that requires a toggle to use?

I think you'd have to put it up. But I think either combat shouldn't break it or little to no delays to try and raise it.

[Molten Heart]

I think that the skill would vary based on terrain.  It'd be more difficult to run in silt/desert/mountains than it would be to run on a road or in a city.  If someone only ran in the city then their skill wouldn't get as high as someone that ran in more treacherous terrain.

[FantasyWriter]

Small chance to fall (critical fail) when running.

[MeTekillot]

You trip and fall on your neck!

[Molten Heart]

You trip and fall on your neck!

Lol.

The tall muscular elf is sleeping here, bleeding heavily.

[Fujikoma]

Don't run with your weapons out until you get to master. Dumb Fuckin' Runners.

[HavokBlue]

I still feel like this is a silly idea that imposes artificial and unrealistic limitations on some types of characters while adding nothing or very little that can't already be done in other ways to elves.

Kind of like the climb skill.

"Amos can't climb out of the 10 foot hole without using all his endurance because he doesn't have [Climb]!" or "Sorry sarge, I can't run with my shield AND my axe out at the same time until I fail at running a bunch of times!"

[Fujikoma]

"Sorry sarge, I can't run with my shield AND my axe out at the same time until I fail at running a bunch of times!"

"Then next time YOU get to patch up the gaping hole in your neck, ungrateful bastard."

[Molten Heart]

I'm not sure why one couldn't run with things in held in the hands. I can see why when riding that matters because mounts have reins.  When it comes to running I'd imagine the only penalties would be encured when travelling in rough terrain and at reduced stamina levels and the penalties would be more higher stamina costs and slower speeds.  The idea of tripping seens extreme and needless.

[HavokBlue]

Being unable to ride with things in your hands until you increase your skill level is also silly.

It is really easy to ride a horse, go fast, and even jump things with a solid grip on the reins and something in both hands. Riding a beetle or an inix or whatever probably involves a somewhat different range of motion, but reins are still reins.

Anyone that disagrees based on contradictory real world experience is wrong and is probably holding the reins wrong.

My position is unassailable.

[bcw81]

Being unable to ride with things in your hands until you increase your skill level is also silly.

It is really easy to ride a horse, go fast, and even jump things with a solid grip on the reins and something in both hands. Riding a beetle or an inix or whatever probably involves a somewhat different range of motion, but reins are still reins.

Anyone that disagrees based on contradictory real world experience is wrong and is probably holding the reins wrong.

My position is unassailable.

You are Guild: Ranger, Race: Breed.

[Eyeball]

I still feel like this is a silly idea that imposes artificial and unrealistic limitations on some types of characters while adding nothing or very little that can't already be done in other ways to elves.

Kind of like the climb skill.

"Amos can't climb out of the 10 foot hole without using all his endurance because he doesn't have [Climb]!" or "Sorry sarge, I can't run with my shield AND my axe out at the same time until I fail at running a bunch of times!"

Thing is, those "other ways" haven't been done for the past fifteen years, have they? I figured maybe this would appeal to the staff, with city elves starting off as city critters, but those who decide to set foot outside of the city and work on it being able to reclaim somewhat their heritage. Instead of absurdedly being required to run as elves, being required to be fanatically proud of their running prowess as elves, but in practical terms being unable to.

[Qzzrbl]

If city elves are going to be recklessly and stupidly proud of something, make sure that something is not nothing.

[Fujikoma]

If city elves are going to be recklessly and stupidly proud of something, make sure that something is not nothing.

What, like their superior intelligence and amazing quickness? lolz @ roundear.

Still, I agree, the races are "the same", I seriously don't se why one has to ALWAYS be utter shit on the sands, no matter how much work is put into it. Even if you gave c-elves desert run, there's a number of things they'd still be missing.

[MeTekillot]

Don't c-elves get almost half of d-elf stamina? I'm pretty sure that'd pretty well represent them not being used to running in the sands already.

[HavokBlue]

I still feel like this is a silly idea that imposes artificial and unrealistic limitations on some types of characters while adding nothing or very little that can't already be done in other ways to elves.

Kind of like the climb skill.

"Amos can't climb out of the 10 foot hole without using all his endurance because he doesn't have [Climb]!" or "Sorry sarge, I can't run with my shield AND my axe out at the same time until I fail at running a bunch of times!"

Thing is, those "other ways" haven't been done for the past fifteen years, have they? I figured maybe this would appeal to the staff, with city elves starting off as city critters, but those who decide to set foot outside of the city and work on it being able to reclaim somewhat their heritage. Instead of absurdedly being required to run as elves, being required to be fanatically proud of their running prowess as elves, but in practical terms being unable to.

Well, no.

City elves suck and have pretty much always sucked.

Turning running into a skill doesn't change that, and if you want to make them better at running, you can just change their endurance loss using existing code instead of the lengthy, elaborate process of creating an entirely new skill that affects every character.

[Desertman]

I don't like it.

[Kol]

I don't like it.