So, On Clans

[Patuk]

Delves run better than humans. Agreed. With mounts, which are ubiquitous, the playing field becomes equal.

A delf isn't ever going to do the job of three competent hunters more capably than a human is because humans can do so just fine. If a delf is going to outhunt three humans, the correct question for Salarr to ask is how they could be better employed.

And yes, agreed, they'd be much, much more powerful celves. All the more reason to buff them.

[RogueGunslinger]

I guess my point is nobody would cry about that if c-elves had tangible benefits that d-elves didn't get.

Maybe don't make them all the same with running. But would it really be such a bad idea to give all c-elves maxed city sneak/hide? Or maxed steal. (you know, that thing they're known for).

[Malken]

Delves run better than humans. Agreed. With mounts, which are ubiquitous, the playing field becomes equal.

Dude, a d-elf can regenerate their stamina in seconds, if not minutes, if they are resting at the right spots, while a mount takes freakin' forever. It's not even close to equal.

All it takes is for your usual "My papa raised me to judge a man by their deeds and not their blood" elf fucker players and you suddenly have d-elves doing all kind of weird shit that people would bitch about for much less. I've seen it all.

D-elves are balanced out by the fact that they are majorly restricted to their own little area. I don't think that Staff wants to deal with all the headaches it would bring if you could suddenly set them free and loose (and I also think it's a huge part of why they are being holed in their own zone/clans).

Even human tribals (at least clanned ones) get in trouble if they start sticking to the city for too long.

[th3kaiser]

Stuff.

[Lizzie]

So, 1 karma isn't enough for desert elves, we need to further restrict the role to special app for sponsored roles, and condemn the rest of the desert elf population to being tribeless PC wise, like city elves, which everyone bitches about and some mention closing entirely, however, everything with human tribals is just fine the way it is? Sorry, but I must be missing something here, because it seems rather punishing to me. Then again, here I must admit to having very little experience, so yeah, if there is an explanation for it, I'd certainly like to hear it so I can better understand.

No, I'm saying OPEN UP desert elves to more than just the two coded tribes. This gives people MORE of an opportunity to vary their roleplay and not feel "stuck" with only two options for desert elves. The coded tribes would still be playable, by special app only. The UNcoded tribes would be unrestricted, and unsupported by anything other than unclanned staff and *possibly* a new chargen option for spawn points.

As it stands, I won't even attempt to play another desert elf again, until and unless there is some other option besides sun runner and soh lanah kah. I know there are at least a few other players who feel the same way.

Also my suggestion wasn't to have unclanned desert elves be tribeless. Of course they'd have tribes. That would be part of their background, subject to the usual staff approval for any normal application with restrictions (dwarven focus, anyone?). It just wouldn't be coded, like SR and SOH are. The tribes would be virtual. Hell you could even use some of the existing currently unsupported desert elf docs like Dune Stalkers, Blackwing, etc. etc. Tell applicants their characters must be from one of those uncoded tribes. You could even have some of the DOZENS of children of the Red Fangs, whose mothers weren't home the day their camp was destroyed, show up - again, with an uncoded unsupported virtual tribe that has some smattering of documentation for players to use in their backgrounds.

[HavokBlue]

Single best change that could be made to delves short of opening a different clan: let SLK roam free short of hanging out in and around the cities.

[HavokBlue]

Reminder that this is your SLK role

[Voular]

The less stinking elves, the better. Desert elves are totally uninteresting. Staff have made all the right calls with them lately.

[HavokBlue]

i dont like this role so nobody else should be allowed to enjoy this role

[Norcal]

Single best change that could be made to delves short of opening a different clan: let SLK roam free short of hanging out in and around the cities.

Staying in the swamp is not all that bad, although I agree the rules could be relaxed a bit. In some contexts the SR can already roam pretty much as they please, so if your change was made, what would you suggest to differentiate the two tribes? Or maybe that is too IC?

Or should this topic spin into it's own thread, as it is a bit specific rather than just clans in general?

[HavokBlue]

Obviously we can't discuss the particulars of SLK docs on the GDB but you and I both know the context in which they can leave the Tablelands is very specific, and this context hardly involves roaming considering the very purpose driven nature of it.

Staying in the swamp is really bad when you have four or five desert elves under your belt because beyond interacting with different personalities, playing a new elf really doesn't offer anything different. I can't speak for the Sun Runners, and maybe some SLK players like being glorified park rangers, but I feel like it's ridiculous that even a city elf effectively has access to more of the desert than a desert elf.

[Norcal]

Obviously we can't discuss the particulars of SLK docs on the GDB but you and I both know the context in which they can leave the Tablelands is very specific, and this context hardly involves roaming considering the very purpose driven nature of it.

Staying in the swamp is really bad when you have four or five desert elves under your belt because beyond interacting with different personalities, playing a new elf really doesn't offer anything different. I can't speak for the Sun Runners, and maybe some SLK players like being glorified park rangers, but I feel like it's ridiculous that even a city elf effectively has access to more of the desert than a desert elf.

You are right, SLK are restricted.  My roaming comment referred to SR, who also have some albeit fewer restrictions.  If the SLK did have unlimited roaming, what could be added to make them different from the SR? Or to keep them from becoming the new Red Fangs?

I am interested because I think that something needs to happen to bring the Tablelands more into the game, yet still allows d elves to be d elves and not hang about in towns and taverns for days on end. Anyway..this is now a full blown derail and I will stop.  Sorry.

[MeTekillot]

Most desert elves wouldn'teenter a city without tribemates at their back, because cities are supposed to feel suspiciousand entrapping to nmost of them.

[nauta]

People in clans don't owe indies or other clans anything.

Not to underail here, but could those of you who hold this view articulate the reasons behind it?  Totally not trying to be a douche or whatever, it just strikes me as counterintuitive at this stage in my arm career.  Here are some rough reasons why it looks prima facie to be counterintuitive:

1. For me at least, the more people I -can- interact with, the more fun I -can- have.  If a clan (or plotline) limits that, I would think that I would have less fun.  Indeed, there have been times where being in a clan has been a lot less fun, either because nobody was around or because the people who were around were just doing insular plots.  This was especially true during the "recruit" phase and even more especially true during offpeak.  (I have, to be fair to myself a little, lived long enough to make it to Corporal and almost Sergeant in a certain clan.)  And mutatis mutandis with indies, although indies, I would think, wouldn't hold the above view, for indies have to interact with other indies and clans.

2. New players should be at least in part taken into account.  Just one example: Using the boards, and having a public presence, tells new players that there are these neat things called clans, that they are doing neat things, and that they seem fun.

3. For me, RP is at least in part taking into consideration what the other person is doing, respecting their "idea", and rolling with it; it isn't just solipsism, be this on the individual or group level.  (That's super abstract, but it is in part a reply to the "do what is fun for you first" thesis that was tossed out, which I suspect underwrites the "we don't owe you anything" aphorism.)

Anyway, it seems to me that, while it is true I should be having fun, part of me having fun is someone else having fun too, so we do owe other people something.  Dunno, that's my reasoning for the alternative... 

[Is Friday]

If I'm running a clan, I would much rather the minions and other leaders be working toward advancing their own org or personal goals within the boundaries of their role.

If you want to create plots that mean something, that requires two opposing wills. If your clan is worried more about having someone to interact with at the expense of forwarding the agenda for their master... plots stand still.

Players shouldn't be as concerned with interaction with randoms as they should be concerned with creating meaningful interaction based on relationships. If I'm a hunter and I just sit in a tavern when I'm not hunting, then I'm usually not doing anything for the development of plots.

The tavern sitting mentality is many times the antithesis toward plots. People show up and expect shit to happen. No. Go out into the rest of the game world and do shit. Then every once in a while crash a bar revelling in your organization's glory.

[Fujikoma]

I don't know, I've had a lot of fun in taverns. Of course when I'm playing a wicked supervillain, the last place I want to spend time is with all those assholes I'm trying to kill, who also, for some strange reason, want me dead. All your pleasant conversation and silly jokes just fill me with the desire to shove a knife in your gut and twist, then.

[Harmless]

Byn is awesome. It comes and goes in peaks though for sure. Get a sergeant when they're starting out, if you can, and when you can, is my advice. Always exciting.

If there's only one sergeant that you know is active, then you should also consider getting in, because a new sergeant is probably coming soon after a role call/app/promotion. It'll be especially fun when you've already gotten some time to get to know the old faces before the new sergeant comes and begins hiring like crazy.

Or you can just plan to have a new or unemployed PC around waiting for them.

Knowing stuff like that can help improve the game experience. Sadly, discussing current events isn't allowed on the GDB, but the best bet is to look at the board in the Gaj carefully (the IG board). Look at the recency of "hiring" calls. The Byn should be updating it regularly with "who the sergeants are to find." If there's one in the past few months, then that's a good sign that the clan is active.

The same can be applied to a lot of GMH.

And... booya.

[creeper386]

I want to take a moment to be jealous of whoever gets the new byn sarge role.

[Patuk]

I wouldn't. They are a braver soul than I.

[RogueGunslinger]

 I think efforts to force the Byn into the north are going to continue to fail. Because you'll never have enough Bynner-type Tuluki's to put into the unit. And shuffling the southern crew to the north is ICly silly.

[BadSkeelz]

I think efforts to force the Byn into the north are going to continue to fail.

Man it's tempting to say "Challenge accepted."

[HavokBlue]

I think the people who still post about Tuluk not having players don't play in Tuluk.

[Narf]

I think the people who still post about Tuluk not having players don't play in Tuluk.

I haven't seen a single player in Tuluk since the last time I was in Tuluk.

[Norcal]

I think the people who still post about Tuluk not having players don't play in Tuluk.

Once again HavokBlue is correct.

[valeria]

Players shouldn't be as concerned with interaction with randoms as they should be concerned with creating meaningful interaction based on relationships. If I'm a hunter and I just sit in a tavern when I'm not hunting, then I'm usually not doing anything for the development of plots.

The tavern sitting mentality is many times the antithesis toward plots. People show up and expect shit to happen. No. Go out into the rest of the game world and do shit. Then every once in a while crash a bar revelling in your organization's glory.

Tavern sitting is how I've recruited probably 90% of new clannies when I'm in a clan that can recruit, so I disagree with the mentality that tavern-sitting is not doing anything.  You need people in your clan, don't you?