VNPC vs PC Realities

[James de Monet]

I don't think this is an invalid complaint.  Sometimes you make a PC with a plan for their life and it gets jacked up because you're the only human around and Sergeant Amos needs a warm body.  That happens. I can see why it would piss you off.

The problem is that expecting Sergeant Amos's player to fix it is not the solution.  He needs a warm body, remember? You're the only one. Who is he supposed to hire? He can't hire vNPCs to do real stuff.

Also, why would you ever want him to assume that you don't want interaction? Unwanted interaction is better than boredom every day of the week and twice on Wednesday.  Asking players not to interact unless they're sure the other player wants it is a terrible idea for the game as a whole.  If you don't want interaction, you're probably going to have to manage that yourself.

Yes, ideally, players should be begging to be hired. That doesn't happen. Leaders should be fending them off with a stick. That doesn't happen. Leaders need players to make their clans fun. They're going to take what they can get. Good on them.  Until those facts change, I wouldnt hold my breath to see this problem change.  It might suck for you personally, but it's for the good of the game, IMO.


Besides, "I can't, I promised [vNPC] I would do [big important thing for him]." is a perfectly valid excuse, that shouldn't necessarily precipitate bad will, and anyone can use it.

It's not realistic that leaders should have to track down their own minions, but they have to. It's not realistic that your PC should have to turn down an amazing job opportunity, but you might have to.  Maybe just come up with a good, IC reason beforehand?

[BadSkeelz]

I'm talking about humans and jobs, like, real jobs. I played a human once. Before a RL week was up I got scooped into Borsail while I was drunk OOC and making an ass of myself. It was entertaining, I'll admit, for the very short time it lasted. I walked into Red's, refused to bow, and demanded booze, walked out with a job.

I would have just beaten you to death with a wine cask, but then we'd be having a different complaints thread about asshole nobles abusing crimcode.

I guess I'm fortunate in that I hate being a leader, so whenever I find myself stuck in those roles I can channel the proper levels of contempt and not wanting to be around all you grebbers after my clanwater.

[Patuk]

I just realised we're in a prisoner's dilemma situation here.

Armageddon is interesting if clans are staffed. It is fun for many people if there are many clanned folk out there. Meanwhile, we have many people who prefer playing independents, but benefit from clans being around as well, for when they wish to order items, want political backing, or seek criminal services.

There are three outcomes to the situation: either there is a ton of people playing in clans and the game is a hotbed of conflicting interests, there are a few people who forsake clans since people are in them anyway and so have their cake and eat it too, or everyone says clans just aren't worth it and stop trying altogether.

I kinda think the third situation is often what we have going on. There is an enormous amount of people whose characters won't join any clan, ever, and I can't really say I blame them.

I'm not going to argue on how to improve this, since that isn't the point of this thread. 'Clans suck, wat do' threads exist aplenty.

[Gimfalisette]

<snip>

Everything JdM said.

I just realised we're in a prisoner's dilemma situation here.

This is also very interesting.



We're all here for our own enjoyment, but I also play for the enjoyment of others. If they're having fun, I'm having even more fun than I was before. My PCs almost never end up where I thought they would, and that's always because of other PCs, and I'm OK with that. I don't play this game so that I can rigorously enact my concept.

So yeah, it doesn't matter what I'm playing, everyone always tries to recruit me into whatever. I'm not gonna judge for that.

[CodeMaster]

I don't think this is an invalid complaint.  Sometimes you make a PC with a plan for their life and it gets jacked up because you're the only human around and Sergeant Amos needs a warm body.  That happens. I can see why it would piss you off.

The problem is that expecting Sergeant Amos's player to fix it is not the solution.  He needs a warm body, remember? You're the only one. Who is he supposed to hire? He can't hire vNPCs to do real stuff.

Also, why would you ever want him to assume that you don't want interaction? Unwanted interaction is better than boredom every day of the week and twice on Wednesday.  Asking players not to interact unless they're sure the other player wants it is a terrible idea for the game as a whole.  If you don't want interaction, you're probably going to have to manage that yourself.

Yes, ideally, players should be begging to be hired. That doesn't happen. Leaders should be fending them off with a stick. That doesn't happen. Leaders need players to make their clans fun. They're going to take what they can get. Good on them.  Until those facts change, I wouldnt hold my breath to see this problem change.  It might suck for you personally, but it's for the good of the game, IMO.


Besides, "I can't, I promised [vNPC] I would do [big important thing for him]." is a perfectly valid excuse, that shouldn't necessarily precipitate bad will, and anyone can use it.

It's not realistic that leaders should have to track down their own minions, but they have to. It's not realistic that your PC should have to turn down an amazing job opportunity, but you might have to.  Maybe just come up with a good, IC reason beforehand?

Thoughtful reply... it's good to phrase these debates from both perspectives (grebber and leader), which is maybe what this thread needs.

My current thinking is that the reason someone's planned-out PC can actually get jacked up (as you say) by the recruitment process is because there's such a huge gulf between Joe Grebber and the lowest rung of the clan ladder.  These players don't want an amazing job opportunity, but hey - a shitty job opportunity might actually appeal to them.

If Vennant was hiring the dregs of society to push in the chairs, clean up the puke, and pick the mugs up off all the tables in the Gaj, I bet you there are players who would take that kind of temporary work.  Doubly so if it gave you access to a crappy little back room to rest in with a sometimes half-full bucket of grey water.

Instead, the lowest rung of the employment ladder (unless you're doing the indie jobs or paying to join the T'zai Byn - that's worth reiterating: players will PAY to join one of the lowest-class clans in the game, which sounds as if it's among the most popular, too!) is something like "official recruit of X under the direct observation of high merchant/noble Y"...

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

I'm super confused.

Why are we complaining about PCs interacting with PCs?

[RogueGunslinger]

I'm super confused.

Why are we complaining about PCs interacting with PCs?

I don't think anyone has complained about interaction, please keep that straw-dummy in the sparring shed. It's more the faulty logic that led the the interaction that is irksome in a way almost akin to guild-sniffing. Something like the elf PC who gets targeted because he's the only long lived elf around who could have the skills to burglarize high-end apartments, while the newer elf pc's will be ignored because they're obviously useless.

Anyways this was another one of those Random Arm Thoughts split-off threads. Random thoughts don't tend to have much depth or consistency for long discussion. It basically just comes down to "I don't like when players do this." And "Here's reasons why players do this."